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by Icesun » Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:47 am
by Wrapper » Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:56 am
Balenderg wrote:9- Currencies of Miscellaneous items (Such as, Chewing Gum, Crushed Beer Cans, and Honey.) must find their own way to prevent counterfeiting, such as (Example: Chewing Gum) using special engraving methods for the chewing gum.
by Araraukar » Sun Aug 24, 2014 9:04 am
Wrapper wrote:Not to mention, engraving chewing gum is a ridiculous idea, how does one engrave something malleable like chewing gum?
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Balenderg » Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:02 am
District XIV wrote:Balenderg wrote:
Do you believe that it needs improvement, or that it is just a bad idea all around? Just Wondering.
Not to be rude, but I think this draft needs to be abandoned. I admire your effort in attempting to draft a resolution, although it's customary around here that one participate in assorted debates prior to pursuing authorship. 'Currency reform/regulation/law' doesn't seem to be a flexible division of WA concern.
by Araraukar » Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:18 am
Balenderg wrote:I think it was because I focused on two ideas at once, the international exchange stuff and the counterfeiting.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Balenderg » Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:21 am
by Balenderg » Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:21 am
by District XIV » Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:33 am
by Balenderg » Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:40 am
by District XIV » Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:42 am
Balenderg wrote:District XIV wrote:Where? Prove that it "is a real problem" in the international society.
It, along with inflation, destroyed the entire economy of Zimbabwe. And the Argentine economy is loaded with inflation and counterfeiting. And the entire E.U currency system nearly collapsed because of counterfeiting.
by Balenderg » Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:46 am
by Separatist Peoples » Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:48 am
Balenderg wrote:I was stating instances where in real life things that happened could happen in nation states. You might just be saying that because YOUR country does not have counterfeit problems, because your nation's currency is digital.
by District XIV » Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:54 am
Separatist Peoples wrote:And we take issue with the District XIV representative's suggestion that counterfeiting money is not an international issue
by Balenderg » Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:56 am
Separatist Peoples wrote:Balenderg wrote:I was stating instances where in real life things that happened could happen in nation states. You might just be saying that because YOUR country does not have counterfeit problems, because your nation's currency is digital.
OOC: Real Life nations don't necessarily exist in Nationstates. If they do, they might exist in different incarnations then you are used to. While OOC references to the Real World and the relevant issues is acceptable in an argument, ICly, it is often ignored entirely.
IC: "Whats a Zimbobway? And we take issue with the District XIV representative's suggestion that counterfeiting money is not an international issue...it absolutely is an international issue, as it is an issue which, by its very nature, can cross borders and violate sovereignty, leaving nations with little recourse but the use of force to respond. That counterfeiting hasn't been banned already is, frankly, astonishing to me."
by Separatist Peoples » Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:01 pm
District XIV wrote:"I never claimed such a thing... I simply stated that this area of WA purview isn't flexible."
Balenderg wrote:OOC: I altered them to be OOC, and also, do real life cultures exist in NS? Just wanted to know if you knew, cause I don't.
by District XIV » Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:04 pm
by Separatist Peoples » Sun Aug 24, 2014 12:16 pm
District XIV wrote:"Or maybe you understood poorly, as I recall never stating both blatantly and underhandedly that this was not of international concern."
by Flamels Stone » Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:06 pm
Balenderg wrote:NOTICING that something should be done about said counterfeiting problems,and ideas to stop those crimes from happening
by Separatist Peoples » Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:45 pm
WELL AWARE that many nations have counterfeit problems
NOTICING that something should be done about said counterfeiting problems, and ideas to stop those crimes from happening
CREATES a counterfeiting patterns & records vault in order to aid police catching counterfeiters and other types of forgers.
PROHIBITS the lack of microprinting on paper currency throughout World Assembly member Nations.
REQUIRES that counterfeiting patterns or designs be submitted to the Counterfeiting Patterns & Records storage, so they can be used to help fight further counterfeit crimes.
by Balenderg » Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:29 pm
Separatist Peoples wrote:
"This is not significant. Not by far."
OOC: Ok.WELL AWARE that many nations have counterfeit problems
"Indeed. What is with the bolding, anyways?"
OOC: All the good proposals are in bold. I just thought I might throw it in there.NOTICING that something should be done about said counterfeiting problems, and ideas to stop those crimes from happening
"As the ambassador from Flamels Stone suggests, this could be worded better...however, it is an preabulatory clause, so it is largely meaningless."CREATES a counterfeiting patterns & records vault in order to aid police catching counterfeiters and other types of forgers.
"Nations unable to produce this without assistance are likely unable to detect counterfeiting. This is unnecessary."PROHIBITS the lack of microprinting on paper currency throughout World Assembly member Nations.
"What about those nations with superior methods of printing that don't require microprinting? Or lack the technology to microprint, but have paper currency? This is not the way to go about preventing counterfeiting."
OOC: I will add in parts that contain those. I'm taking time in the drafting, I just couldn't think of a way to describe them. And basic microprinting does not require higher than normal technology. As a matter of fact, currencies have been microprinted on since the canadian currency in 1867. Basic microprinting is still microprinting.REQUIRES that counterfeiting patterns or designs be submitted to the Counterfeiting Patterns & Records storage, so they can be used to help fight further counterfeit crimes.
"Counterfeiting patterns? So, every nation needs to submit a copy or design of every counterfeited item they come across? It seems far simpler to create an agency to assist nations, on request, to determine, track down, and generally liaise with national representatives in tracking counterfeiting operations down. Instead of creating a massive repository, allowing liaisons to submit the evidence on a case-by-case basis, when necessary, will cut down on unnecessary information, in my opinion.
OOC: Usually counterfeiters use the same patterns for money, and occasionally they even use some obscure method to sign them. If a government found several counterfeit bills, they can be almost sure that the counterfeiter is using the same engraving plates and patterns on the rest, so if a counterfeiter has been spotted spending money at a store, the police can go and look at the money and tell whether or not it is counterfeit.
"On the whole, this is wholly unsatisfactory. I doubt it will make quorum should it end up submitted. I stand opposed, barring a complete rewrite. I submit to the author that this project ought to be abandoned, and the ambassador take a hiatus from writing, take some time to participate in debates and drafting processes of other proposals, and return to writing his own proposals armed with a better understanding of how the GA works."
by Defwa » Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:37 pm
by Flamels Stone » Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:27 pm
Defwa wrote:As far as I know, a counterfeiting pattern/design is a copy of the original bill...
This is really just poorly thought out. Offering suggestions for nations with counterfeiting problems is fine, but forcing everyone to take a single anti counterfeiting method (microprinting) is simply going to drive the criminals to focusing on replicating that one method. And it does nothing to address nations that honestly don't care about counterfeiting. It doesn't automatically mean economic collapse. Also paper money is a terrible misnomer. I don't think anyone sensible uses just paper in their bills.
by Defwa » Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:36 pm
Flamels Stone wrote:Defwa wrote:As far as I know, a counterfeiting pattern/design is a copy of the original bill...
This is really just poorly thought out. Offering suggestions for nations with counterfeiting problems is fine, but forcing everyone to take a single anti counterfeiting method (microprinting) is simply going to drive the criminals to focusing on replicating that one method. And it does nothing to address nations that honestly don't care about counterfeiting. It doesn't automatically mean economic collapse. Also paper money is a terrible misnomer. I don't think anyone sensible uses just paper in their bills.
''Offering suggestions'' and/or ''nations that honestly don't care about counterfeiting dont have to follow this proposal'' would make the proposal optional and illegal.
And its true that bills aren't just made of paper, they have fabric too. But what would you call it? Maleable squares money?
I've realized that this proposal has too many sides to it. There are many currencies and trade systems, many techniques of counterfeit and of anti-counterfeit and as such it would be too much micro-management unless you made the proposal extremely vage. I believe it would be better to leave it has an issue every nation aproaxes in it's own way.
by Separatist Peoples » Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:44 pm
Flamels Stone wrote:''Offering suggestions'' and/or ''nations that honestly don't care about counterfeiting dont have to follow this proposal'' would make the proposal optional and illegal.
And its true that bills aren't just made of paper, they have fabric too. But what would you call it? Maleable squares money?
by Defwa » Sun Aug 24, 2014 5:51 pm
Separatist Peoples wrote:Flamels Stone wrote:''Offering suggestions'' and/or ''nations that honestly don't care about counterfeiting dont have to follow this proposal'' would make the proposal optional and illegal.
And its true that bills aren't just made of paper, they have fabric too. But what would you call it? Maleable squares money?
"Not all are made with fabric. C.D.S.P. greenbacks are now manufactured with plastic and paper. No fabric involved. Its awful...looks like something my niece would play with now...*grumble*...Its simple enough to get around the optionality issue, if you're curious, ambassador. One could make it illegal for member states to knowingly create unbacked currency that is not their own legal tender with the intention of deliberately weakening the strength of another states' money, establish liaison points and a committee responsible for coordinating the intelligence on counterfeiting operations not backed by governments, as well as technical support for nations seeking to protect themselves from such, and empower them to liaise with national authorities that target such operations. Participation in enforcement would, then, be almost entirely optional, where nations themselves would be barred from allowing institutional counterfeiting operations from thriving in their jurisdiction. Ostensibly, those nations with odd items, like chewing gum, either have a control to prevent uncontrolled flow of currency into their economy, or have a means by which to recognize those backed by their government, or otherwise have protections in place to prevent accidental collapse of their economy. However, this would be a concern for such economies with or without legislation on the matter, so I don't see the issue. Its all a matter of finesse. *COUGH COUGH*Ihopetheauthorheardthat*Cough*"
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