Your Opinion of Political Correctness

[Soldati Senza Confini]

1. But we're offended by it. Man, you guys are racists.

Well you're not a protected group so we can't help. Soz.

2. Sure, but there's a difference between the term "illegals" and the term "illegal immigrant".

Aside from the word immigrant, there's very little. Both draw attention to the fact that the person is technically a criminal when there's no reason to do so. It's also used almost exclusively to refer to those from central america, you don't hear canadians being called illegal immigrants or asked if they have citizenship.

Well, "illegal immigrant" as far as I know, it's a perfectly tolerable common phrase to distinguish someone being in the country without papers, which is a civil offense, which is what the qualifier "illegal" is referring to in "illegal immigrant". It's not correct, since undocumented immigrants are committing a tort offense, but it's perfectly acceptable in common day-to-day language and is not racist because, although it carries legal connotations, it's not aimed at Latinos specifically but all immigrants in general and it has never been used as an insult commonly.

In academia and government though one is expected to use "Undocumented immigrant" out of proper terminology; as being in the U.S. is just a civil offense, not a criminal one and it keeps things neutral in congress and academia. Of course, academia is held at a higher standard of language than the common populace, and so this makes sense.

"Illegals" however is a direct attack towards someone, and it has been used to target specifically Latinos, so that's what makes "illegals" racist. The negative connotations it carries. It's like calling a black person a "Negro". The word itself is not wrong, as it is the Spanish word for black, but it is racist because it carries negative connotations which black and African American do not.

In other words "Illegal immigrant" is the politically charged term, but it's not racially charged unlike "illegals". By saying they are an "illegal" (noun form) you are basically trying to dehumanize them. Illegal immigrant (with "illegal" as a qualifier for what kind of immigrant we're talking about, or as an adjective and not as a noun), while it is politically charged, doesn't achieve the same effect.

[Margno]

I don't like the political correctness system, because it sets it up as if you just need to be pedagogical, when you really need to be actively compassionate. It also sets up this kind of political orthodoxy which gets in the way of compassion as often as it encourages it, and makes a lot of people virulently judgmental and hateful of people who don't agree with them, when they should be listening, reaching out , and trying to understand. Political correctness ends up making a lot of blues uncontrollably xenophobic, even though that's the very sort of thing it's nominally opposed to.

[Viritica]

1. Because we're offended by it. I'm using PC logic.

1. You're being deliberately obtuse and continuously flogging an example which isn't even an example of political correctness at all. I seriously hope that you don't think you're being terribly clever by keeping this going, I'm hanging out for you to realize that this was well and truly a dumb idea and just letting it slide.

2. Because not respecting our immigration laws and national sovereignty is illegal. Seriously, get the fuck over it.

2. Which of course, is an excellent reason to alienate people and spark conflict between ethnic groups. To top it off, I bet you're one of the people who always complains about immigrants not properly integrating into american culture either. So you're not only going out of your way to make them feel unwelcome, but also complaining about achieving the desired result.

Maybe you're just racist?

1. It is an example of political correctness. "Illegal immigrant" is a perfectly example of people being offended by a term that has no underlying derogatory meaning. People who immigrate here through legal means are immigrants, correct? So why shouldn't people who immigrate here through illegal means be illegal immigrants? Seems to me you're just dense.

2. I don't seek to alienate people. If you come here through legal means then I'll be the first to welcome you with open arms. However, if you disrespect our immigration laws and our national sovereignty then you should be deported. Illegal immigrants depress wages for the rest of us and offer no real benefit to society.

And also lol at the racist accusation. This always such a typical leftist response. "You disagree with me? You must be racist."

[-Arabiyah-]

Depends when people talk about Islam than that's the only time I think it should be used.

[Viritica]

Depends when people talk about Islam than that's the only time I think it should be used.

Why?

[-Arabiyah-]

Depends when people talk about Islam than that's the only time I think it should be used.

Why?

Because Islam is better than the best

[Arglorand]

Why?

Because Islam is better than the best

Sometimes I feel like you're an account run by Quintium in order to make a point.

[-Arabiyah-]

Because Islam is better than the best

Sometimes I feel like you're an account run by Quintium in order to make a point.

What is that I am a Qutbist if this is what you're trying to say.

[Arkolon]

Sometimes I feel like you're an account run by Quintium in order to make a point.

What is that I am a Qutbist if this is what you're trying to say.

Quintium is an Islamophobic conservative right-wing poster who posts things that put down Islam sometimes (I think? citation needed). The fact that you're here saying "Islam > you" and "Islam best religion Allah is love" etc etc, it makes us think that you're actually Quintium trying to deceitfully prove that all Muslims are extremist in their religious views and pose a threat to Western society and culture, or something.

[Aplan]

I hate getting into debates, especially ones political and religious of subject. But here I was touting my opinion. I'm just going to leave it be.

[-Arabiyah-]

What is that I am a Qutbist if this is what you're trying to say.

Quintium is an Islamophobic conservative right-wing poster who posts things that put down Islam sometimes (I think? citation needed). The fact that you're here saying "Islam > you" and "Islam best religion Allah is love" etc etc, it makes us think that you're actually Quintium trying to deceitfully prove that all Muslims are extremist in their religious views and pose a threat to Western society and culture, or something.

He sounds like an ass hole

[Arglorand]

What is that I am a Qutbist if this is what you're trying to say.

Quintium is an Islamophobic conservative right-wing poster who posts things that put down Islam sometimes (I think? citation needed).

huge, huge, huge understatement.

[Wind in the Willows]

Oh you're hilarious, do you think you're the first one to use that edgy reference? I wasn't trying to be edgy.

Oh, I'm so sure that it was a well-thought out and meaningful statement instead of one just tossed around to make yourself look bad ass (a task you failed at).

I wasn't trying to make myself look like a badass, you moron.

[Murkwood]

What is that I am a Qutbist if this is what you're trying to say.

Quintium is an Islamophobic conservative right-wing poster who posts things that put down Islam sometimes (I think? citation needed). The fact that you're here saying "Islam > you" and "Islam best religion Allah is love" etc etc, it makes us think that you're actually Quintium trying to deceitfully prove that all Muslims are extremist in their religious views and pose a threat to Western society and culture, or something.

The mods would know.

[Farnhamia]

Oh, I'm so sure that it was a well-thought out and meaningful statement instead of one just tossed around to make yourself look bad ass (a task you failed at).

I wasn't trying to make myself look like a badass, you moron.

*** Warned for flaming ***

[Wind in the Willows]

I wasn't trying to make myself look like a badass, you moron.

*** Warned for flaming ***

Umm, well done?

[Lakiea]

I can't see that this really exists as much as many people claim. When the phrase is used, it tends to be groups giving unrefined opinions that are wrong or unfit for the national stage. I seem to imagine complaints from some fringe liberals or conservatives due to their inability to espouse "their opinions" because they trigger "offense," when that "offense" is just reactionary discourse.

I can understand some limited circumstances (e.g. banning speech offensive to other religions, refusing to discuss sexuality/religion/certain current events in schools due to their "sensitivity") but I don't know how much it actually exists and how much is frustration at others striking down their views.

[Viritica]

Why?

Because Islam is better than the best

No, it isn't.

[Viritica]

*** Warned for flaming ***

Umm, well done?

Just let it go.

[United Dependencies]

I think Neo Art has said it best:

*earlier quotes and responses edited out*

The whole thing about "political correctness" is just the recognition that hey, words have meanings. And maybe not always the meanings you think they have, at least not to all the same people, all the time.

See, her'es the real deal. For the most part, us non christian liberals aren't all that particularly uspet about someone telling us "merry christmas". I like the sentiment. Thank you for wishing me well. I'm not bothered by YOU, holiday happiness wisher. I'm vaguelly miffed at the cultural circumstances in which you operate.

You see, for the most part, us non christian folks just want to keep on keeping on. The days are short, the nights are cold, and we're just trying to fucking get by. We don't care about "waging a war" on christmas. We really don't fucking care what you believe, and frankly, we would just appreciate the same courtesy. All this "political correctness" goes is to say hey, when you say merry christmas, you're making assumptions about that person. And you may mean well, and it may be an honest, friendly gesture, but you're still making assumptions. Assumptions that aren't true for literally millions of people in this country. And if you really meant well, if you really, truly, wanted to wish me well, as a good christian, as a good person, is it really necessary to make that assumption? And, in fact, doesn't that assumption take away from that message a bit?

That's all "pc" wants to be, thats its only goal. To educate you. To inform you. To make you aware of what your words ACTUALLY mean. That when you say "merry christmas" it might be a nice gesture, it might be a symbol of good will. But it's also a particular assumption about the person you're saying it to, and is that an asusmption you REALLY should be making? Or does that presumption lose something? Is it REALLY come across that way? Or does it read as "have a good day, provided you believe like me". Does it raise that tiny specter of "I'm only saying this because I think you and I think alike"

All "politically correct" tries to do is inform you of the fact that if peace love and harmony is your goal, you can do that WITHOUT making assumptions about me. What you DO with that information is your choice. If your choice is to say "you're right, I will do so in a way that doesn't make assumptions" that's great. If your choice is "No! I will CONTINUE to do this and you WILL FUCKING LIKE IT!" then ok, that's your choice too.

But if, armed with this information, you still choose to make that choice, then let's drop this pretention that it's all about love and harmony, and realize what it actually is. You just want to be a dick.

Which is why the right wing I think is so furiously up in arms about this "war on christmas" bullshit. Because it does two things. One, it asks them to recognize that there are non christians in this world, something it is dead set against doing (how's that landslide shaping up WIllard?), and second, it's part of the broader "PC culture war". "PC" isn't about TELLING you what you can say, it's merely informing you of how your words are taken in the broader culture. What you DO with that knowledge is up to you. But it disarms the right wing defense. They claim it's a "war on christmas" but what it really is, is a war against their ability to throw their hands in the air, shrug their shoulders and go "what, I'm just saying Merry Christmas here, what's the problem with that? You like christmas, like a good american, don't you?"

The left wing "war on christmas" is actually just another brach on the right wing's attack on cultural education. Because once people actually LEARN what their words mean, LEARN how they're taken, LEARN the cultural interpretation of their meanings, then they don't get to hide behind the right wing's favorite weapon, ignorance.

Because when you educate people on the actual meaning of what they actual say, you take away their ability to hide behind fake ignorance, and leave them with only two options. Be a decent human being, or be a dick. And you can be a dick, if you want, that's your choice.

But that also means you have to own up to the social consequences of it. And if continuing to say "merry christmas" long after someone's explained that this is really presumptuous of your target recipient, even though you might mean well is a concious choice to say "I recognize that may actions may be insensitive, and I just don't care", and it's also a concious choice to deal with the ramifications of being perceived that way.

And if the next question is "what ramifications of being perceived that way" well, ask President Romney. Oh. That's right. You can't. He lost.

[Keyboard Warriors]

1. You're being deliberately obtuse and continuously flogging an example which isn't even an example of political correctness at all. I seriously hope that you don't think you're being terribly clever by keeping this going, I'm hanging out for you to realize that this was well and truly a dumb idea and just letting it slide.


2. Which of course, is an excellent reason to alienate people and spark conflict between ethnic groups. To top it off, I bet you're one of the people who always complains about immigrants not properly integrating into american culture either. So you're not only going out of your way to make them feel unwelcome, but also complaining about achieving the desired result.

Maybe you're just racist?

1. It is an example of political correctness.

No, it is fucking not. It is not an example of political correctness because the people, if any, who complain about the use of the word "citizen" do not form an otherwise disadvantaged demographic. This "example" is only an example of how you have no idea what the term really means.

"Illegal immigrant" is a perfectly example of people being offended by a term that has no underlying derogatory meaning. People who immigrate here through legal means are immigrants, correct? So why shouldn't people who immigrate here through illegal means be illegal immigrants? Seems to me you're just dense.

It's been acknowledged by many to be a dehumanizing term. Not to mention the tensions it incites. I really don't care if you think it has no derogatory meaning because you're wrong.

2. I don't seek to alienate people.

You say this, yet you refuse to use another less-inflammatory term meaning the same thing because you don't want to.

If you come here through legal means then I'll be the first to welcome you with open arms. However, if you disrespect our immigration laws and our national sovereignty then you should be deported. Illegal immigrants depress wages for the rest of us and offer no real benefit to society.

We really didn't need you wanking this white pride stuff all over the thread.

And also lol at the racist accusation. This always such a typical leftist response. "You disagree with me? You must be racist."

If you don't like being called a racist, then don't say racist things. I'd imagine it's a typical response from anybody when dealing with people who are obviously racists. Yet you continually make out the problem is everybody else because you couldn't possibly be racist

[Respawn]

The only people who cry about "political correctness" are the people who just really want to laugh at the niggers and kikes. every time. Having the right to speech doesn't mean you shouldn't be responsible for the shitty things that you say.

Then again, some people are just too easily offended. I don't care when I'm called a wog, but that word is a term of endearment these days, anyway.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

The only people who cry about "political correctness" are the people who just really want to laugh at the niggers and kikes. every time. Having the right to speech doesn't mean you shouldn't be responsible for the shitty things that you say.

Then again, some people are just too easily offended. I don't care when I'm called a wog, but that word is a term of endearment these days, anyway.

Pretty much. I mean, don't get me wrong, there are folks out there who are easily offended, and there's no reason to have to walk on eggshells whenever you open your mouth. However, the vast majority of the times that I've seen people complaining about being persecuted by politically correct types, it usually was someone saying something horribly offensive or insensitive, usually involving racial stereotypes, anti-gay slurs, misogynistic viewpoints, and the like. I mean, yes, we shouldn't try to interpret everything in the worst way possible, but is it really that hard to not casually drop racial slurs, or to avoid using the term "gay" to describe that which one finds repellent?

[Korouse]

Why can't we just operate within common sense and not get fucking offended at EVERYTHING?

[Viritica]

1. It is an example of political correctness.

1. No, it is fucking not. It is not an example of political correctness because the people, if any, who complain about the use of the word "citizen" do not form an otherwise disadvantaged demographic. This "example" is only an example of how you have no idea what the term really means.

"Illegal immigrant" is a perfectly example of people being offended by a term that has no underlying derogatory meaning. People who immigrate here through legal means are immigrants, correct? So why shouldn't people who immigrate here through illegal means be illegal immigrants? Seems to me you're just dense.

2. It's been acknowledged by many to be a dehumanizing term. Not to mention the tensions it incites. I really don't care if you think it has no derogatory meaning because you're wrong.

2. I don't seek to alienate people.

3. You say this, yet you refuse to use another less-inflammatory term meaning the same thing because you don't want to.

If you come here through legal means then I'll be the first to welcome you with open arms. However, if you disrespect our immigration laws and our national sovereignty then you should be deported. Illegal immigrants depress wages for the rest of us and offer no real benefit to society.

4. We really didn't need you wanking this white pride stuff all over the thread.

And also lol at the racist accusation. This always such a typical leftist response. "You disagree with me? You must be racist."

5. If you don't like being called a racist, then don't say racist things. I'd imagine it's a typical response from anybody when dealing with people who are obviously racists. Yet you continually make out the problem is everybody else because you couldn't possibly be racist

1. Jews aren't a disadvantaged demographic? Huh, I was unaware antisemitism as all gone.

2. And it's been acknowledged by others to not be dehumanizing. A few people claiming something is dehumanizing doesn't make it dehumanizing. If you immigrate here legally then you're an immigrant. If you immigrate here illegally then you're an illegal immigrant. It's that simple. Now stop bitching.

3. Yes, because a few people finding it offensive for no good reason isn't really gonna make me use another term.

4.

That actually made me chuckle. That was a strawman so massive it would make Scarecrow envious.

5. Except referring to an illegal immigrant as an illegal immigrant isn't a racist or derogatory term. It's calling them what they are. Illegal immigrants. Do I see them as subhuman? Nah. Not really. And you bashing your head against a wall trying to convince yourself that I'm a racist really isn't gonna change that.