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by Ucropi » Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:52 am
by Ifreann » Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:56 am
Ucropi wrote:Just posting to remind you folks that Lincoln didn't free the slaves because he was a good person. He freed them to cripple the South's agricultural based economy. No slaves = no cotton = no money for food/weapons/medical supplies.
by Delator » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:00 am
Nazi Flower Power wrote:A lot of people don't seem to realize just how severely they got their asses kicked. We get a lot of alternate histories and speculation about how things could have gone differently, so people often forget just how uneven the balance of power really was.
by Ucropi » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:00 am
Ifreann wrote:Ucropi wrote:Just posting to remind you folks that Lincoln didn't free the slaves because he was a good person. He freed them to cripple the South's agricultural based economy. No slaves = no cotton = no money for food/weapons/medical supplies.
Lincoln could have spent his free time sacrificing virgins to his demonic masters while wearing the skin of captured Confederate prisoners and wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference to what the Confederate flags symbolise.
Seriously, this isn't a football match. The Confederate flag doesn't win by you scoring enough points against the Union.
by The Greater Aryan Race » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:00 am
Imperium Sidhicum wrote:So, uh... Is this another one of those threads where everyone is supposed to feel outraged and circle-jerk in agreement of how injust and terrible the described incident is?
Because if it is, I'm probably going to say something mean and contrary just to contradict the majority.
by Ucropi » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:02 am
The Greater Aryan Race wrote:God why is this debate still going on? The Confederate flag represents rebellion and treason and the violation of the US Constitution. It embodies the ideals of rebels who attempted to secede from the Union in order to preserve the institution of slavery, a gross moral injustice. It is a wholly evil flag which should be banned and does not deserve the veneration that some people appear hell-bent on attaching it to.
by The Greater Aryan Race » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:03 am
Ucropi wrote:You realize that America was founded by slave owners rebelling because they didn't want to give up their slaves right? Why does the Confederate flag stand for slavery and rebellion but the American flag doesn't?
Imperium Sidhicum wrote:So, uh... Is this another one of those threads where everyone is supposed to feel outraged and circle-jerk in agreement of how injust and terrible the described incident is?
Because if it is, I'm probably going to say something mean and contrary just to contradict the majority.
by The Greater Aryan Race » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:06 am
Ucropi wrote:I'm interested in why though. Doesn't the American flag represent the exact same thing?
Imperium Sidhicum wrote:So, uh... Is this another one of those threads where everyone is supposed to feel outraged and circle-jerk in agreement of how injust and terrible the described incident is?
Because if it is, I'm probably going to say something mean and contrary just to contradict the majority.
by Sdaeriji » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:06 am
Ucropi wrote:Ifreann wrote:Lincoln could have spent his free time sacrificing virgins to his demonic masters while wearing the skin of captured Confederate prisoners and wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference to what the Confederate flags symbolise.
Seriously, this isn't a football match. The Confederate flag doesn't win by you scoring enough points against the Union.
You realize that America was founded by slave owners rebelling because they didn't want to give up their slaves right? Why does the Confederate flag stand for slavery and rebellion but the American flag doesn't?
inb4 "America isn't the topic""You're spamming/derailing"
by Ucropi » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:07 am
The Greater Aryan Race wrote:Ucropi wrote:You realize that America was founded by slave owners rebelling because they didn't want to give up their slaves right? Why does the Confederate flag stand for slavery and rebellion but the American flag doesn't?
Because the Confederacy seceded primarily because of slavery. The American colonies seceded because of their belief that they weren't being adequately represented in the British Parliament together with the harsh taxes that England imposed.
They're two completely different things.
by Ucropi » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:07 am
Sdaeriji wrote:Ucropi wrote:You realize that America was founded by slave owners rebelling because they didn't want to give up their slaves right? Why does the Confederate flag stand for slavery and rebellion but the American flag doesn't?
inb4 "America isn't the topic""You're spamming/derailing"
Because that didn't happen.
by The Greater Aryan Race » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:09 am
Ucropi wrote:This anti-slavery law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somersett%27s_Case came into effect 4 years before the American revolution happened. So how can you say they didn't secede because of slavery? Remember history is written by the victor, which means it's biased.
Imperium Sidhicum wrote:So, uh... Is this another one of those threads where everyone is supposed to feel outraged and circle-jerk in agreement of how injust and terrible the described incident is?
Because if it is, I'm probably going to say something mean and contrary just to contradict the majority.
by Ifreann » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:12 am
Ucropi wrote:Ifreann wrote:Lincoln could have spent his free time sacrificing virgins to his demonic masters while wearing the skin of captured Confederate prisoners and wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference to what the Confederate flags symbolise.
Seriously, this isn't a football match. The Confederate flag doesn't win by you scoring enough points against the Union.
You realize that America was founded by slave owners rebelling because they didn't want to give up their slaves right? Why does the Confederate flag stand for slavery and rebellion but the American flag doesn't?
inb4 "America isn't the topic""You're spamming/derailing"
by Ifreann » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:13 am
Ucropi wrote:The Greater Aryan Race wrote:Because the Confederacy seceded primarily because of slavery. The American colonies seceded because of their belief that they weren't being adequately represented in the British Parliament together with the harsh taxes that England imposed.
They're two completely different things.
This anti-slavery law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somersett%27s_Case came into effect 4 years before the American revolution happened. So how can you say they didn't secede because of slavery? Remember history is written by the victor, which means it's biased.
by Ucropi » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:17 am
Ifreann wrote:Ucropi wrote:You realize that America was founded by slave owners rebelling because they didn't want to give up their slaves right? Why does the Confederate flag stand for slavery and rebellion but the American flag doesn't?
As I've already explained multiple times, because the USA has been around for over 200 years and has done many things, both good and bad, whereas the CSA started a war for slavery, lost that war, and hasn't been up to much since. 100% of the history of the Confederacy is associated closely with the slavery of black people, so it only follows that symbols of the Confederacy would evoke thoughts of racism and slavery. You may as well ask why people don't associate this with American football. You realise that there is an Army football team, don't you? Why do the logos and symbols of the New York Giants stand for football but the logos and symbols of the US Army don't?inb4 "America isn't the topic""You're spamming/derailing"
Sorry to disappoint.
by Sdaeriji » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:18 am
Ucropi wrote:Sdaeriji wrote:
Because that didn't happen.
Anti-Slavery law passed in Britain four years before the revolution started
by Ifreann » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:25 am
Ucropi wrote:Ifreann wrote:As I've already explained multiple times, because the USA has been around for over 200 years and has done many things, both good and bad, whereas the CSA started a war for slavery, lost that war, and hasn't been up to much since. 100% of the history of the Confederacy is associated closely with the slavery of black people, so it only follows that symbols of the Confederacy would evoke thoughts of racism and slavery. You may as well ask why people don't associate this with American football. You realise that there is an Army football team, don't you? Why do the logos and symbols of the New York Giants stand for football but the logos and symbols of the US Army don't?
Sorry to disappoint.
Yeah we don't watch football in my country so I have no idea what a "New York Giant" is.
Now by your logic the SWASTIKA shouldn't be associated solely with the Nazis as it existed as a religious symbol for thousands of years as a symbol for everlasting life and peace, and maybe 3 decades as a racist symbol.
by Neo Rome Republic » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:28 am
by The Greater Aryan Race » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:28 am
Ucropi wrote:Yeah we don't watch football in my country so I have no idea what a "New York Giant" is.
Now by your logic the SWASTIKA shouldn't be associated solely with the Nazis as it existed as a religious symbol for thousands of years as a symbol for everlasting life and peace, and maybe 3 decades as a racist symbol.
Imperium Sidhicum wrote:So, uh... Is this another one of those threads where everyone is supposed to feel outraged and circle-jerk in agreement of how injust and terrible the described incident is?
Because if it is, I'm probably going to say something mean and contrary just to contradict the majority.
by The Black Forrest » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:20 am
Ifreann wrote:Ucropi wrote:Just posting to remind you folks that Lincoln didn't free the slaves because he was a good person. He freed them to cripple the South's agricultural based economy. No slaves = no cotton = no money for food/weapons/medical supplies.
Lincoln could have spent his free time sacrificing virgins to his demonic masters while wearing the skin of captured Confederate prisoners and wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference to what the Confederate flags symbolise.
Seriously, this isn't a football match. The Confederate flag doesn't win by you scoring enough points against the Union.
by KASSRD » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:26 am
Ucropi wrote:Sdaeriji wrote:
Because that didn't happen.
Anti-Slavery law passed in Britain four years before the revolution started
by The Black Forrest » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:29 am
Ucropi wrote:Ifreann wrote:As I've already explained multiple times, because the USA has been around for over 200 years and has done many things, both good and bad, whereas the CSA started a war for slavery, lost that war, and hasn't been up to much since. 100% of the history of the Confederacy is associated closely with the slavery of black people, so it only follows that symbols of the Confederacy would evoke thoughts of racism and slavery. You may as well ask why people don't associate this with American football. You realise that there is an Army football team, don't you? Why do the logos and symbols of the New York Giants stand for football but the logos and symbols of the US Army don't?
Sorry to disappoint.
Yeah we don't watch football in my country so I have no idea what a "New York Giant" is.
Now by your logic the SWASTIKA shouldn't be associated solely with the Nazis as it existed as a religious symbol for thousands of years as a symbol for everlasting life and peace, and maybe 3 decades as a racist symbol.
by Cannot think of a name » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:31 am
Ucropi wrote:Just posting to remind you folks that Lincoln didn't free the slaves because he was a good person. He freed them to cripple the South's agricultural based economy. No slaves = no cotton = no money for food/weapons/medical supplies.
Ucropi wrote:Had the North been agriculturally based instead of industrial you would most likely still own a human being today.
by Ostroeuropa » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:32 am
Ostroeuropa wrote:It's a symbol. Symbols have different meanings to different people.
Racism is a valid interpretation, but it's just childish to throw a fit and say other people aren't interpreting the art the same way you are and that yours is the right one. It's also incredibly stupid.
For the record, when I see the confederate flag, I see a racist symbol.
by Keyboard Warriors » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:39 am
Ostroeuropa wrote:Ostroeuropa wrote:It's a symbol. Symbols have different meanings to different people.
Racism is a valid interpretation, but it's just childish to throw a fit and say other people aren't interpreting the art the same way you are and that yours is the right one. It's also incredibly stupid.
For the record, when I see the confederate flag, I see a racist symbol.
If you see it as any of the options, that's fine too. It might be a minority interpretation, but it's arrogant to say it's a wrong interpretation.
If you walk up to me and tell me the confederate flag is a symbol of southern heritage and pride, i'm going to accept thats how you see it. I'd even accept it's how a majority of southerners see it, and that they should be allowed to fly it.
I find this entire debate completely ridiculous.
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