[REPORT] Trolling

[Lubyak]

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=304411

I know raiding is legal, but this raid's actions: a) deliberately targetting a RP region, and b) deliberately doing everything RPers have been asking raiders NOT to do in order to prevent damage to RP regions constitutes trolling and griefing. Their wording in the linked thread furthermore feels very much like gloating.

[Sedgistan]

Invading is not trolling, and asking someone not to invade/kicking up a fuss about it you doesn't mean that invading suddenly becomes trolling.

Invaders (and defenders, and natives) are allowed to celebrate their victories - it's a competitive part of the game.

[Lubyak]

They are very clearly gloating over how much they distrupted RP. But whatever.

"This type of trolling isn't trolling because they did it using the mechanics."

So. You have deliberately picked an RP region. And then deliberately did everything RPers have been asking raiders NOT to do in order to preserve the peace.

I can't call you everything I'd like to call you because I'd likely get warned. This is deliberately pouring fuel on the fire, and that you are all GLOATING about it just makes everything that much worse.

This is why I couldn't be bothered liberating the region. LWU makes drama and I love watching it

Like this. Is this not the literal definition of trolling? Pissing people off and then laughing at them being upset?

Edit: Given the environment in NS right now, this could probably be considered flamebait too.

[Blood Wine]

You people are assholes through and through.

Just leaving this here for moderation

[Nierr]

You people are assholes through and through.

Just leaving this here for moderation

As long as Lubyak truly believes it, it's fine.

[Sedgistan]

You people are assholes through and through.

Just leaving this here for moderation

Addressed.

Just leaving this here for moderation

As long as Lubyak truly believes it, it's fine.

Melkor Unchained is no longer a moderator on this site.

[Kouralia]

Sorry, you don't appear to have addressed Lubyak's second point, or whether it constitutes the lesser offence of flamebaiting rather than trolling from this post.

[Pragia]

I have recently submitted this issue to GHR, to a response that ignored the substance of the report. I am moving it here for all to see, and hopefully for a response more appropriate to the report.

This thread (viewtopic.php?f=12&t=304411) celebrates the absolute destruction of 3 years of RMB work, their regional factbook, and their regional flag, mocking a defenseless region over how easy it was to destroy all that work.

The OSRS definition of Griefing is:
"Harassment/Griefing: Harassing/griefing a nation or region because of their words or actions is forbidden regardless - in telegrams, Regional Messageboard (RMB) posts, and on the forums. Save abusive telegrams so that moderators can examine them. Use the Additional Information checkboxes on the Getting Help Page to report abusive RMB posts. Report abusive forum posts in the Moderation forum.

The aggressors have harassed and griefed the entirety of the RMB, through suppressing and trolling the last few posts, and have harassed and mocked the natives on the forums through their gloating recap.

This ignores the traditional definition of griefing, which they fill to a T.

Furthermore, it is by definition flamebait and trolling

OSRS on Flamebaiting/Trolling

Flamebaiting: Posts that are made with the aim of angering someone indirectly. Not outright flame, but still liable to bring angry replies. Flame baiting is a far more subtle and covert action; it is an underhanded tactic that is designed to provoke a response from another player. It's in the same context of trolling but with flamebaiting it's just the one person.

Trolling/Baiting/Gloating: Trolling is defined as posts that are made with the aim of angering people. (like 'ALL JEWS ARE [insert vile comment here]' for example). Someone disagreeing with you does not equate to trolling. Intent is incredibly important and will be judged by the moderators to the best of their abilities. Honest belief does not excuse trolling. Disagreements are expected and conducting yourself in a civil manner is ideal. Trollbaiting is the action of making posts that attract trolls. A prime example of trollbaiting would be gloating over the results of an election.

Gloating over punishments handed out to other players is not acceptable. Another form of the offense, IGNORE gloating, is typically seen in the roleplay forums, though it can appear elsewhere. Politely informing another nation that you are henceforth using the "ignore" feature is acceptable, but repeating it in different threads or over long periods is considered gloating and will be dealt with appropriately. Other cases will be considered on an ad hoc basis.

As noted on the open letter from the mentors' thread (viewtopic.php?f=5&t=303132) page 86, it has obviously been inflammatory to the RPers on this issue. The action of deliberately invading a defenseless RP region in a time where tension between R/D and RP are at a high is not coincidental. Evil Wolf, the leader of the raider group, has acknowledged the definition of Griefing (viewtopic.php?f=5&t=303132&p=20913473#p20913473 - I was unable to find said definition on the FAQ, but he broke that definition too, as this shows that this raid was for enjoyment at the cost of other's work) and proceeded to launch the raid the very next day.

The OP, Dark Watch, has made the post in such a way that it is inflammatory to and gloating over a large group of people (RPers, and defenders) with his citing of "tradition" to destroy everything that region has done.


My initial response was dissatisfactory

Invading a region, suppressing posts, changing the WFE and the other acts associated with invading are not against the rules. Nor is attempting to destroy, or wishing to destroy a region.
If you wish the end the invasion, you'll have to do so in-game rather than through us.

All the above actions are griefing by the mods' definition, and the response fails to even mention the gloating and flaming in the recap post.

The report is directed at Evil Wolf for premeditated Griefing and at Dark Watch for Flamebaiting, Trolling, and Gloating.

[Sedgistan]

It's neither trolling nor flamebaiting.

[Sedgistan]

Your report was addressed; there was no need to re-post. Invaders are allowed to celebrate their victories. This has also been addressed here.

[Nierr]

Once again:
cry me a river and stop acting like a victim

(Image)

From that thread, flaming via picspam.

[Blood Wine]

Once again:
cry me a river and stop acting like a victim

(Image)

From that thread, flaming via picspam.

I lol'd

flaming to who exactly?,a non specified person?

It's called satire,he feels offended,ergo i should offend everyone

[Sedgistan]

From that thread, flaming via picspam.

Addressed.

[Pragia]

I was going to ask in a seperate thread, but here is probably more fitting.

What makes this not trolling flaming or griefing, despite it meeting the definitions of each set out in the OSRS? What makes raiding okay to do despite it meeting criteria for multiple offenses?

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

This is being discussed. In the meantime, I'd advise to report if you feel it truly crosses the lines of acceptability, and stay out of the arguments in the GP forums rather than leaping in and giving them what they want. 'You' as a general 'you' to those who have concerns.

Clearly, there's a disconnect, and varied opinions on what constitutes what, and who ought to get called on it for which. Further inflaming the situation doesn't do anyone any good. If your side of the discussion doesn't involve themselves in the shitflinging, they tend to come out smelling better when the dust clears, neh? Unfortunately, people are having difficulties with that.

[The North Polish Union]

Thoricia's posts seem to be crossing the borders of what's acceptable. Even after Nathis post. Most of his posts seem to be variations on a basic theme, so I'm only including one of them. Ad hominem. Ad libitum. Ad nauseam.

Hey, you're the one posting in the GP forum. So...

Anyway, I wouldn't call this raid "blatant destruction". If they wanted to destroy it they'd have done it by now. Or they'd at least send in more reinforcements.

I really don't expect you to call it what it is since you're nothing but a raider who delights in tormenting people

EDIT: Spelling and post clarity.

[Thoricia]

I'm sorry I was only trying to play the political aspect of Gameplay, I did not think what I was doing constituted trolling. Any one of my arguments could have been easily taken apart and I was just trying my hand at the politics and disinformation that seems to be prevalent on the Gameplay forums

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Thoricia's posts seem to be crossing the borders of what's acceptable. Even after Nathis post. Most of his posts seem to be variations on a basic theme, so I'm only including one of them. Ad hominem. Ad libitum. Ad nauseam.

I really don't expect you to call it what it is since you're nothing but a raider who delights in tormenting people

EDIT: Spelling and post clarity.

Not seeing it as any more actionable than other stuff that goes on in there. Possibly less so. How about everyone give it a rest and move on for a bit.

[Blood Wine]

From that thread, flaming via picspam.

Addressed.

Sooooo,anyone mind explaining who I exactly offended? because I didn't target anyone nor should anyone feel targeted by a (funny) picture in spoilers

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Given the volatility of the overarching situation, it really is best not to pour gasoline on the fire, hm? Seriously. Trying to use the rules to get around them is poor form.

[Blood Wine]

Given the volatility of the overarching situation, it really is best not to pour gasoline on the fire, hm? Seriously. Trying to use the rules to get around them is poor form.

Eh,sorry I'm not sure i quite understand,what rules am i using exactly? I'm being accused of rule-breaking but I don't see how I am,seeing as I wasn't addressing anyone but poking fun at the fact he considers me to be offending him

[Pragia]

I apologize in advance for my impatience, but I have decided to refrain from forum use until some sort of resolution was made. Is there an answer yet to what makes raiding okay/changing of rules to make it okay? Just curious, as it has been a couple weeks.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

This has been rather hotly debated on all sides for a decade now. I'm afraid a simple fix or quick answer is not going to be forthcoming. There are those of us who have serious concerns about how Gameplayers and those who want nothing to do with it interact, how the rules are currently set up, and how they can be misinterpreted and perhaps even abused. And there are those of us who believe there is nothing wrong with the current system.

This brings us to a bit of an impasse. And it is still being discussed. Thanks for your patience, apologies that it hasn't been resolved in a more timely manner. It's more of an overarching situation than simply one raid, or a single instance that we're looking at.

[Blood Wine]

I'm still waiting for a proper explanation as well,no idea who or why i exactly offended