Military Ground Vehicles of Your Nation [NO MECHS] Type 6

[Imperializt Russia]

intellectually dishonest argument

He isn't using a soviet IFV/APC. He's using a tank.

A 75mm autocannon would depend on propellant loads and other things, but would mostly take up space and be redundant. It might have superior airburst and anti-air capability, but so would a single 120mm round. A 75mm cannon probably is at the cross section of 40mm autocannons and 120mm guns in capability.

It's not intellectually dishonest.
The point is, to have an autocannon you need an autoloader. 75mm guns are a bit out of the realm of 30mm RARDEN where the operator has the space and low weight to move about clips.

The autoloader takes up a colossal amount of turret space. Probably more than would allow even a one-man turret when a 122mm gun is also thrown into the vehicle, without a tandem arrangement like in that third concept image. Which would obviously necessitate a large turret.

And of course, the argument of total redundancy of mixing a large-calibre autocannon and a large-calibre gun.

[Rich and Corporations]

intellectually dishonest argument

He isn't using a soviet IFV/APC. He's using a tank.

A 75mm autocannon would depend on propellant loads and other things, but would mostly take up space and be redundant. It might have superior airburst and anti-air capability, but so would a single 120mm round. A 75mm cannon probably is at the cross section of 40mm autocannons and 120mm guns in capability.

It's not intellectually dishonest.
The point is, to have an autocannon you need an autoloader. 75mm guns are a bit out of the realm of 30mm RARDEN where the operator has the space and low weight to move about clips.

The autoloader takes up a colossal amount of turret space. Probably more than would allow even a one-man turret when a 122mm gun is also thrown into the vehicle, without a tandem arrangement like in that third concept image. Which would obviously necessitate a large turret.

And of course, the argument of total redundancy of mixing a large-calibre autocannon and a large-calibre gun.

155mm autoloaders with clips did exist
your arguments and points were previously misleading

right now they make sense, partly because they are same as what I was making

[Imperializt Russia]

IIRC, 155mm "autoloader clips" are just the propellant charges.
Which are obviously pretty light, and you have 93 million miles of vertical space in which to manipulate those charges.

[Krasny-Volny]

Is a muzzle velocity of 4, 430ft/s (1,350m/s) any good?

[Rich and Corporations]

Is a muzzle velocity of 4, 430ft/s (1,350m/s) any good?

for what?
punching holes?
that'll punch pretty good size holes

[Krasny-Volny]

Is a muzzle velocity of 4, 430ft/s (1,350m/s) any good?

for what?
punching holes?
that'll punch pretty good size holes

For a Modern MBT?

[Imperializt Russia]

Depends what you're throwing.
The M256 gun on the Abrams can pull 1400m/s with the M830A1.

[Krasny-Volny]

Depends what you're throwing.
The M256 gun on the Abrams can pull 1400m/s with the M830A1.

What about a small calibre gun with low velocity, for an IFV? I was looking at something in 75/76mm or very likely a 90mm.

[Gallia-]

for what?
punching holes?
that'll punch pretty good size holes

For a Modern MBT?

Yes.

[Krasny-Volny]

For a Modern MBT?

Yes.

What will a 90mm round traveling at that velocity penetrate? A 75mm?

[Gallia-]

A fair bit of metal.

[AlgoCape Isle]

AlgoCapes MBT

T72e103

Main armament: 165mmL60 Autoloaded Smoothbore Cannon 1800m/s common velocity
Secondary armament: 1x12.7x99 M3 FN Herstal
Tertiary armament: IR-shielding smoke and chaff grenades
Crew: 2
Length:
hull 6.86m
overall 10.36m
Width: 3.5
Height:
fixed 1.5m
overall 2m
Weight: 50t
Armour:
front 1700mm eRh Ke
2200mm eRh HEAT
overall 300mm eRh Ke
500mm eRh HEAT
crew 1200mm eRh Ke
1800mm eRh HEAT
Top speed:
theoretical 120km
road 85km
offroad 60-72km depending on conditions
Operational Range:
offroad 550km
onroad 1300km
Engine: 2x1250hp PT6A-68 turboshafts active power management, can shut an engine down to conserve fuel.
Drivetrain: Gas turbine electric
Elevation: -/+15
Suspension: pneumatic
Misc: Mineplow adds additional frontal protection.Each crewmen has identical controls for redundancy and pivoting seat-controls for full speed reverse dash. NBC protected.

Auto loader is twin vertical tubes in an oval under the rear deck 42 rounds
Two piece ammunition, 165x900mm each; includes charges
Penetration values at 2.7km

High Explosive Squash Head: 19.5kg Composition B

High Explosive Anti Tank: 2160mm eRh

Tungsten Kinetic Perpetrator: 1300 eRh

Canister shot

Open to suggestions and criticism.

[Krasny-Volny]

A fair bit of metal.

Will it penetrate another IFV? A twenty-first century MBT?

[Paragania]

M120A3 "Dragon"

The M120A3 is the latest version of the Paraganian M120 main battle tank. It is a modernized version and has a number of improvements and improved operational capabilities over it's predecessor. The Dragon was first revealed in 2011. It is being used by the Paraganian Army and possible export operators. The M120A3 has an improved turret and survivability of the tank was improved by adding a turret bustle. This combat machine has new composite armor as well as built-in Relikt explosive reactive armor (ERA) in place of the previous Kontakt-5. The Dragon is fitted with side skirts with built-in Relikt ERA. There is also a Shtora-1 countermeasures system, which significantly reduces the chance of being hit by enemy anti-tank guided weapons with semi-automatic guidance. It is currently available for export to any country willing to purchase it.

[Gallia-]

A fair bit of metal.

Will it penetrate another IFV? A twenty-first century MBT?

Very likely.

[Krasny-Volny]

Will it penetrate another IFV? A twenty-first century MBT?

Very likely.

So - with the projected velocity - even such a small round will work on an Abrams? Frontally?

[Crookfur]

Depends what you're throwing.
The M256 gun on the Abrams can pull 1400m/s with the M830A1.

What about a small calibre gun with low velocity, for an IFV? I was looking at something in 75/76mm or very likely a 90mm.

its pretty much the muzzle veocity of the APFSDS-T round for the 90mm gun in the Cockeril LCTS 90MP system and a good bit lower then the 1600m/s you will see quoted for the 76mm gun on the rooikat 76

On its own a muzzle velocity doesn;t tell you much about how a round will perform you need the type of ammo and a rough idea of what sort weight and amterials are used in its construction.

1350m/s from a 90mm gun is unlikely, unless the projectile is some sort of advanced very heavy/long penetrator, to penetrate the heaviest protected area of an mdoern MBT but should work agaisnt the weaker areas.

[United states of brazilian nations]

-snip-

High Explosive Squash Head: 19kg C-4
(Image)

Open to suggestions and criticism.

IIRC, C-4 is simply a "stabilized", safer-to-handle compund of RDX. i suppose you could use RDX in these shells for a bit of extra boom, but i'm no expert so take this with a fair bit of salt.

---

on the topic of 122mm guns + 75mm autocannons - IMHO, pointless. if you absolutely need to put a coaxial autocannon, do so with a 20mm, maybe 25mm one. then, you might be able to make it a belt-fed chain gun.

tank appears, shoot it with main gun. light vehicle appears, shoot it with autocannon. a 20mm won't be able to do much damage to a highly armored IFV, but you should be engaging IFVs with your main guns anyways. it would be good enough for destroying light armored jeeps, but a good burst of .50 cal should be able to do that anyways.

[Anemos Major]

The ammo was one reason I thought might come up, although I wasn't sure. One reason I decided to settle on a 122mm smoothbore, in the hopes it would be able to make room for the 75mm. If I settled on a 40mm autocannon, but still kept the smoothbore, would I have room for ammunition?

It's not so much the room for the ammunition, it's more the room for the loading mechanisms. In this case, I'd say it's potentially doable - say, with a parallel bustle-carousel arrangement (where you load the 122mm with a bustle autoloader and the 75mm autocannon with a fairly large carousel autoloader dragging fairly small clips into the autocannon feed), but it'd take up an enormous amount of space and probably weigh a lot. So why is it that you need such an unwieldy pairing of weapons in the first place?

[AlgoCape Isle]

-snip-

High Explosive Squash Head: 19kg C-4
(Image)

Open to suggestions and criticism.

IIRC, C-4 is simply a "stabilized", safer-to-handle compund of RDX. i suppose you could use RDX in these shells for a bit of extra boom, but i'm no expert so take this with a fair bit of salt.

I was looking at the composition of HESH which is C-4 mostly, at least what i found, and artillery shells which are Composition B and normal TNT, at least the M107 is.
Wait i just noticed RDX and TNT is Composition B, so looks like I will change from Composition C mk4(c-4) to Composition B mk1, editing that now.

[The Grey Wolf]

Would anyone mind analyzing/criticizing my newest tank?

Name: Wolf-75
Designed: 1981 -1989
Produced: 1990 -
Crew: 5 (Commander, Driver, Gunner, Radio Operator, Autocannon Gunner.)
Armaments:
Primary- 122 mm smoothbore cannon
Secondary- 75mm autocannon
.50 cal Browning machine gun
Weight: 42 short tons
Armor:
Rolled Homogenous Armor
Steel Composite Armor
Plastic Armor
Engine: 1,500 shp
Suspension: Torsion Bar
Operational Range: 430 miles
Top Speed: 49 mph

Drop secondary to 40mm Bofors, primary upped to 140mm NATO. ):

It looks fine tbh. You don't need two gunners though, just have a toggle switch for "coax" on the gunner controls.

Thanks, appreciate the advise.

[Rich and Corporations]

Does anyone want to discuss Hunnicutt's firepower?
On page 177, they describe the hunter tank, uses a hydraulic transmission system, with a hydraulic motor for each roadwheel, maintaining mobility even after a mine explosion.

The T57 tank used a 120mm gun with an 8 round autoloader clip.

[Sediczja]

How simple of a matter is converting a tank into an APC? I ask because I'm considering converting the LP-60 into an APC/IFV.

[Imperializt Russia]

How simple of a matter is converting a tank into an APC? I ask because I'm considering converting the LP-60 into an APC/IFV.

It's not simple or straightforward.

The main advantages of doing so are that the chassis, while pre-modification, exists and that it offers a platform for a lot of protection mass.
The engine, turret section and hull roof are major barriers to a "simple" modification. Look at the various Russian HIFV modifications to the T-55, T-64 and T-72 along with the Achzarit (T-55, Israeli) and Namer (Merkava).

[Spirit of Hope]

How simple of a matter is converting a tank into an APC? I ask because I'm considering converting the LP-60 into an APC/IFV.

Mostly depends on the original design of the tank. The big thing for an APC would be space for the troops and ease of entering/exiting under fire. The former part is relatively easy, once the turret is removed and some modifications made there you have the space. The real problem is the entering/exiting under fire, for that you want a door in the rear of the vehicle, and most tanks put there engine there. As it would appear the LP-60 you linked to does. That means the doors have to be on the side of the vehicle, which makes it much more likely your soldiers will be exiting under fire.