Cheaper, faster, and easier to make float.
Use it in accordance with somthing heavier, for example an MBT.
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by Inyourfaceistan » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:38 pm
by The Akasha Colony » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:45 pm
Republica Newland wrote:Well.. even if it isn't a direct hit but rather above it? Although top armor is usually weak on AFVs.. ATGMs are designed to be fired perpendicularly to the armor they are supposed to penetrate (because of their shaped charge for HEAT)... so in the scenario in which a HEAT hit another HEAT located in a launcher on top of an AFV, you would theoretically have two jets of metal spraying around on top of the vehicle relatively parallel to the actual armor.
by Rich and Corporations » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:52 pm
The Akasha Colony wrote:A little thing called strategic mobility. Israel can field honking heavy IFVs/APCs because airlift is simply not a requirement for them; their enemies are right next door. But for other nations, particularly NS nations who fight wars across the globe, being able to practicably transport a vehicle as quickly as possible is valuable.
I'm not sure about that. Sympathetic detonation can occur, as well as secondary explosions.The Akasha Colony wrote:It's unlikely you'd be able to set off an ATGM in precisely the way necessary to generate a proper HEAT jet. Just like you wouldn't be able to 'accidentally' set off an implosion nuclear weapon.
Assuming a non-linear battlespace with insurgents, maybe MRAPs would be more viable.The Akasha Colony wrote:MRAPs aren't very good multipurpose vehicles. High center of gravity and an already very heavy design before you slap other things on it.
Corporate Confederacy DEFENSE ALERT LEVEL PEACE ▓ Factbook [url=iiwiki.com/wiki/Corporate_Confederacy]Wiki Article[/url] | Neptonia |
by Ayreonia » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:00 pm
The Akasha Colony wrote:Republica Newland wrote:Well.. even if it isn't a direct hit but rather above it? Although top armor is usually weak on AFVs.. ATGMs are designed to be fired perpendicularly to the armor they are supposed to penetrate (because of their shaped charge for HEAT)... so in the scenario in which a HEAT hit another HEAT located in a launcher on top of an AFV, you would theoretically have two jets of metal spraying around on top of the vehicle relatively parallel to the actual armor.
It's unlikely you'd be able to set off an ATGM in precisely the way necessary to generate a proper HEAT jet. Just like you wouldn't be able to 'accidentally' set off an implosion nuclear weapon.Republica Newland wrote:
It's kind of a non-sequitur fielding IFVs/APCs whose armor is able to withstand up to .50 cal when IFVs mounting autocannons (typically 20 to 40mm) are the norm. What's the point if it can't defend against its' counterparts?
A little thing called strategic mobility. Israel can field honking heavy IFVs/APCs because airlift is simply not a requirement for them; their enemies are right next door. But for other nations, particularly NS nations who fight wars across the globe, being able to practicably transport a vehicle as quickly as possible is valuable.
Also, not every enemy unit will be fielding large IFVs. It is quite possible to encounter enemy light infantry. By your argument, even an IFV should be armored against tank fire since what happens if it happens to encounter an enemy tank, the sort that normally accompanies the mechanized infantry that use IFVs in the first place?
MRAPs aren't very good multipurpose vehicles. High center of gravity and an already very heavy design before you slap other things on it.
by San-Silvacian » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:12 pm
Republica Newland wrote:Purpelia wrote:Everything. Forget about armor and weapon issues. The chassis, drive train and engine of an IFV just are not built to withstand the strain of those in the first place. One is a 20 ton vehicle (at most) and the other a 60+ ton one. By the time you scale things up you either have a brand new tank design that has no issues but also nothing in common with your IFV or you have an overloaded IFV that embodies the old adage: "if it looks good it is good." I.E. It does not look good.
That or you have a TAM which is kind of cool when you think about it.
Nope.. my IFVs would definitely not be 20 tons. IFV would be based on my heavy platform. My light platform, even with wheeled vehicles would be 15 tons at the very least, being MRAP and all. My HP would probably be around 35-40 tons, 40-45 for the heaviest payloads.. up to 50 for the "light tank"
EDIT: The TAM and its' variants are indeed somewhat relevant but a little too light IMO
I don't think there's anything under 20t that can stop anything bigger than a .50 cal or 14.5
by Yes Im Biop » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:27 pm
[violet] wrote:Urggg... trawling through ads looking for roman orgies...
Idaho Conservatives wrote:FST creates a half-assed thread, goes on his same old feminist rant, and it turns into a thirty page dogpile in under twenty four hours. Just another day on NSG.
Immoren wrote:Saphirasia and his ICBCPs (inter continental ballistic cattle prod)
by The Akasha Colony » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:30 pm
Ayreonia wrote:Even light infantry can punch through armor. The old Soviet BMP-2 IFV? Get a steady man and give him a machine gun -> perforated IFV. Yes, it's mobile, it's light, it's amphibious... and it's vulnerable. Modern AT weapons come in so small varieties these days, a single soldier can easily carry two LAWs and his service rifle and fight effectively.
by Yes Im Biop » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:31 pm
[violet] wrote:Urggg... trawling through ads looking for roman orgies...
Idaho Conservatives wrote:FST creates a half-assed thread, goes on his same old feminist rant, and it turns into a thirty page dogpile in under twenty four hours. Just another day on NSG.
Immoren wrote:Saphirasia and his ICBCPs (inter continental ballistic cattle prod)
by San-Silvacian » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:35 pm
Yes Im Biop wrote:I thought LAW's were only just considered anti Armor weapons
by The Akasha Colony » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:36 pm
Yes Im Biop wrote:I thought LAW's were only just considered anti Armor weapons
by Yes Im Biop » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:39 pm
[violet] wrote:Urggg... trawling through ads looking for roman orgies...
Idaho Conservatives wrote:FST creates a half-assed thread, goes on his same old feminist rant, and it turns into a thirty page dogpile in under twenty four hours. Just another day on NSG.
Immoren wrote:Saphirasia and his ICBCPs (inter continental ballistic cattle prod)
by Rich and Corporations » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:53 pm
The Akasha Colony wrote:Ayreonia wrote:Even light infantry can punch through armor. The old Soviet BMP-2 IFV? Get a steady man and give him a machine gun -> perforated IFV. Yes, it's mobile, it's light, it's amphibious... and it's vulnerable. Modern AT weapons come in so small varieties these days, a single soldier can easily carry two LAWs and his service rifle and fight effectively.
The BMP-2 is lightly armored by modern standards. It's quite possible to have a vehicle in the mid-20 tonne range or possibly even lower that is armored against HMG fire, including 14.5 mm. This being NS of course there are people trolling around with much larger 'machine guns,' but such is the nature of an arbitrary protective standard, and 14.5 mm or at best 15.5 mm plus splinter protection is enough to resist almost any infantry weapon.
LAWs are of limited range, but even then would be a threat to a much larger 30-40 tonne vehicle anyway, as would a heavier ATGM. They can't be considered unique threats only to light vehicles. The 400 mm RHAe the AT4 gets is enough to threaten pretty much any vehicle, assuming that vehicle manages to get within range.
Corporate Confederacy DEFENSE ALERT LEVEL PEACE ▓ Factbook [url=iiwiki.com/wiki/Corporate_Confederacy]Wiki Article[/url] | Neptonia |
by Republica Newland » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:59 pm
by Themiclesia » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:04 pm
NS stats not in effect
(except in F7)
Gameside factbooks not canon
Sample military factbook
Nations:
• Themiclesia
• Camia
• Antari
>>>Member of Septentrion, Atlas, Alithea, Tyran<<<Left-of-centre, multiple home countries and native languages, socially and fiscally liberal; he/him/his
Pro: diversity, choice, liberty, democracy, equality | Anti: racism, sexism, nationalism, dictatorship, war
News | Court of Appeal overturns Sgt. Ker conviction for larceny in quartermaster's pantry | TNS Hat runs aground in foreign harbour, hull unhurt | House of Lords passes Stamp Collection Act, counterfeiting used stamps now a crime | New bicycle lanes under the elevated railways | Demonstration against rights abuses in Menghe in Crystal Park, MoD: parade to be postponed for civic activity
by San-Silvacian » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:33 pm
Themiclesia wrote:I have a traditional Westminster-style government, and I was wondering if we should allow proceedings in error (a type of review/appeal) from courts-martial in the House of Peers - the supreme court of judicature.
by Grand Britannia » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:35 pm
by Yes Im Biop » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:36 pm
Grand Britannia wrote:Didn't we have a non-military realism thread...
...somewhere...I'm sure it's still around.
[violet] wrote:Urggg... trawling through ads looking for roman orgies...
Idaho Conservatives wrote:FST creates a half-assed thread, goes on his same old feminist rant, and it turns into a thirty page dogpile in under twenty four hours. Just another day on NSG.
Immoren wrote:Saphirasia and his ICBCPs (inter continental ballistic cattle prod)
by Themiclesia » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:43 pm
NS stats not in effect
(except in F7)
Gameside factbooks not canon
Sample military factbook
Nations:
• Themiclesia
• Camia
• Antari
>>>Member of Septentrion, Atlas, Alithea, Tyran<<<Left-of-centre, multiple home countries and native languages, socially and fiscally liberal; he/him/his
Pro: diversity, choice, liberty, democracy, equality | Anti: racism, sexism, nationalism, dictatorship, war
News | Court of Appeal overturns Sgt. Ker conviction for larceny in quartermaster's pantry | TNS Hat runs aground in foreign harbour, hull unhurt | House of Lords passes Stamp Collection Act, counterfeiting used stamps now a crime | New bicycle lanes under the elevated railways | Demonstration against rights abuses in Menghe in Crystal Park, MoD: parade to be postponed for civic activity
by Yes Im Biop » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:02 pm
[violet] wrote:Urggg... trawling through ads looking for roman orgies...
Idaho Conservatives wrote:FST creates a half-assed thread, goes on his same old feminist rant, and it turns into a thirty page dogpile in under twenty four hours. Just another day on NSG.
Immoren wrote:Saphirasia and his ICBCPs (inter continental ballistic cattle prod)
by Altito Asmoro » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:04 pm
Grand Britannia wrote:Didn't we have a non-military realism thread...
...somewhere...I'm sure it's still around.
by Yes Im Biop » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:05 pm
[violet] wrote:Urggg... trawling through ads looking for roman orgies...
Idaho Conservatives wrote:FST creates a half-assed thread, goes on his same old feminist rant, and it turns into a thirty page dogpile in under twenty four hours. Just another day on NSG.
Immoren wrote:Saphirasia and his ICBCPs (inter continental ballistic cattle prod)
by Yes Im Biop » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:32 pm
Bhelyant wrote:Yes Im Biop wrote:
Don't believe so Unless I made it with my first nation...
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=181183&p=9419724&hilit=realism#p9419724
[violet] wrote:Urggg... trawling through ads looking for roman orgies...
Idaho Conservatives wrote:FST creates a half-assed thread, goes on his same old feminist rant, and it turns into a thirty page dogpile in under twenty four hours. Just another day on NSG.
Immoren wrote:Saphirasia and his ICBCPs (inter continental ballistic cattle prod)
by Graznovia » Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:59 pm
by San-Silvacian » Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:47 pm
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