NSG Senate Chamber [NSG Senate]

[Pesda]

This bill includes all five of those bills?

Yes, it was given admin approval soon.

If so, I think that the Public Education Act and the Educational Framework Establishment Act contradict each other.

Where?

Without much detail, this is what I can find.
1.

17. Hereby places a 3 month interval between schooling years to occur at the beginning of June, to carry through the end of August. This shall only be enforced at public schools.

contradicts

b) School year shall start in January and end in December.

because if the gap between the years is at June-August, then it can't also be at December-January.

2.

d) School day and week shall be decided at discretion of school governors ensuring appropriate time at home for healthy child development is ensured.

contradicts

15. There shall be 5 days in the school week, each comprising of 7 hours of instruction per day. Lunch and recess don't count towards this number of hours. Schools must have at least 30 school weeks per year. This shall only be enforced at public schools.

3.

1. A public educational system will be formed under the supervision of the Ministry of Education, which will provide free enrollment to people between the age of 5-18.

doesn't go well with

a) Pre-primary education shall refer to non-mandatory education, starting when child reaches age of three and lasting for three years.

because the Public Education Act implies that people of the age of five will be in compulsory education, while the Educational Framework Establishment Act says that they won't.

I suggest that the authors of both acts co-operate to combine both into one Education Act, or remove EFEA (and possibly the PEA) from the Government Services Act, and debate it on an other day.

[Great Nepal]

Okay, after listing to senator Pesda, I would like to purpose following to senator Free South Califas...
1. Schools will start in January and end in December.
2. Public educational system will cover people from Primary Education to Secondary Education because it may take them upto 20 years to complete secondary education.
3. EFEA will be amended to "School day and week shall be decided at discretion of school governors ensuring appropriate time at home for healthy child development is ensured and it is in compliance with section 15 of PEA for public schools, should it pass".
4. GAT's wont happen in year 5 and year 10, where DLE and SLC will happen.
5. Any mention of providence in EFEA will be changed to districts.

Note, this doesn't mean we have to support each other's bill just means we have non-contradicting bills.

[Pesda]

Okay, after listing to senator Pesda, I would like to purpose following to senator Free South Califas...
1. Schools will start in January and end in December.
2. Public educational system will cover people from Primary Education to Secondary Education because it may take them upto 20 years to complete secondary education.
3. EFEA will be amended to "School day and week shall be decided at discretion of school governors ensuring appropriate time at home for healthy child development is ensured and it is in compliance with section 15 of PEA for public schools, should it pass".
4. GAT's wont happen in year 5 and year 10, where DLE and SLC will happen.
5. Any mention of providence in EFEA will be changed to districts.

Note, this doesn't mean we have to support each other's bill just means we have non-contradicting bills.

I still think they should still be combined into a single education Act, to make it easier for the rest of the Senate to consider, and if neccesary, make amendments.

[Great Nepal]

Okay, after listing to senator Pesda, I would like to purpose following to senator Free South Califas...
1. Schools will start in January and end in December.
2. Public educational system will cover people from Primary Education to Secondary Education because it may take them upto 20 years to complete secondary education.
3. EFEA will be amended to "School day and week shall be decided at discretion of school governors ensuring appropriate time at home for healthy child development is ensured and it is in compliance with section 15 of PEA for public schools, should it pass".
4. GAT's wont happen in year 5 and year 10, where DLE and SLC will happen.
5. Any mention of providence in EFEA will be changed to districts.

Note, this doesn't mean we have to support each other's bill just means we have non-contradicting bills.

I still think they should still be combined into a single education Act, to make it easier for the rest of the Senate to consider, and if neccesary, make amendments.

They deal with two separate things though. EFEA's main scope is to create a basic curriculum to be followed in every school and sets out structure of education system. PEA establishes public schools.

[Pesda]

I still think they should still be combined into a single education Act, to make it easier for the rest of the Senate to consider, and if neccesary, make amendments.

They deal with two separate things though. EFEA's main scope is to create a basic curriculum to be followed in every school and sets out structure of education system. PEA establishes public schools.

Fair enough. Could you put your five amendments into the bills and post them here?

[The Nihilistic view]

Well if they do, then obviously it is in line with the wishes of the people of the district.

And could easily be abolished by judges anyway, could it not?

Districts under control of communists or USLP will certainly do so.

"Certainly" now? I don't recall you running this little assumption past any actual Communists. Even then, home schooling is still allowed, so nobody is "forced" to learn things exactly as the government fits. You just want greedy people to turn profits from the provision of a basic service that every child has a right to receive on equal footing.

Of course, if private schools end up discriminating against students with disabilities (and I have not yet heard of a situation where this is not the case), perhaps you have a point that they shouldn't be allowed. Private schools are borrowing/stealing public legitimacy in the state licensing process; if the public sees fit to regulate them, so much the better.

Its not from my perspective, its the letter that says effective banning it is allowed since it simply says "restrictions".

The presence and power of our judiciary implies "reasonable" restrictions.

Yes, or say "fair and reasonable restrictions". Or even better prevent school districts from regulating schools and leave that job to central government.

This from the freedom/options guy
That being said, there is nothing wrong with adding "fair and reasonable".

Private schools are charities, nobody makes any money from them.

Secondly private schools provide about 2000% more help to disabled pupils than the state sector. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[Free South Califas]

Okay, after listing to senator Pesda, I would like to purpose following to senator Free South Califas...
1. Schools will start in January and end in December.

Isn't that just the status quo for EFEA? Or are you suggesting the summer break be dropped from PEA? Unless this is purely an administrative distinction, it sounds to me like the only break will be of ambiguous length in late Dec-early Jan. I'm open to that, but I haven't heard a satisfying justification for no-summer-break yet.

2. Public educational system will cover people from Primary Education to Secondary Education because it may take them upto 20 years to complete secondary education.
3. EFEA will be amended to "School day and week shall be decided at discretion of school governors ensuring appropriate time at home for healthy child development is ensured and it is in compliance with section 15 of PEA for public schools, should it pass".
4. GAT's wont happen in year 5 and year 10, where DLE and SLC will happen.
5. Any mention of providence in EFEA will be changed to districts.

Note, this doesn't mean we have to support each other's bill just means we have non-contradicting bills.

These would seem to resolve the problem, unless I've missed something. I'll support these amendments.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

I'll refrain until I've been given a proper match.

[Free South Califas]

Section III of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and Article VI of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights guarantee a "right to live". Does that mean murder is illegal?

I'd think it would compel judges to consider murder as a deprivation of rights and allow the estate of the departed to make a case for punishment, at least. That being said, this doesn't make much of a distinction between different kinds of killing/death, or at least doesn't seem to impose a significant distinction which would allow murder and wrongful death as such, to be prioritized as a justice issue, i.e. as compared to accidental killings, etc.

[Great Nepal]

Okay, after listing to senator Pesda, I would like to purpose following to senator Free South Califas...
1. Schools will start in January and end in December.

Isn't that just the status quo for EFEA? Or are you suggesting the summer break be dropped from PEA? Unless this is purely an administrative distinction, it sounds to me like the only break will be of ambiguous length in late Dec-early Jan. I'm open to that, but I haven't heard a satisfying justification for no-summer-break yet.

I am fine with summer break, and in fact considering our location in Mediterranean we must have a summer break however academic year should start in January and end in December (December being winter holiday) because that is how normal calendar works. Why start/end it in middle of the year?
Basically, lets have summer break in June and end of year break in December..

2. Public educational system will cover people from Primary Education to Secondary Education because it may take them upto 20 years to complete secondary education.
3. EFEA will be amended to "School day and week shall be decided at discretion of school governors ensuring appropriate time at home for healthy child development is ensured and it is in compliance with section 15 of PEA for public schools, should it pass".
4. GAT's wont happen in year 5 and year 10, where DLE and SLC will happen.
5. Any mention of providence in EFEA will be changed to districts.

Note, this doesn't mean we have to support each other's bill just means we have non-contradicting bills.

These would seem to resolve the problem, unless I've missed something. I'll support these amendments.
Great, I will post changed version of EFEA soon.

[The Nihilistic view]

Isn't that just the status quo for EFEA? Or are you suggesting the summer break be dropped from PEA? Unless this is purely an administrative distinction, it sounds to me like the only break will be of ambiguous length in late Dec-early Jan. I'm open to that, but I haven't heard a satisfying justification for no-summer-break yet.

I am fine with summer break, and in fact considering our location in Mediterranean we must have a summer break however academic year should start in January and end in December (December being winter holiday) because that is how normal calendar works. Why start/end it in middle of the year?
Basically, lets have summer break in June and end of year break in December..

These would seem to resolve the problem, unless I've missed something. I'll support these amendments.
Great, I will post changed version of EFEA soon.

Are you unable to calculate anything that does not start in January and end in December senator? It would be a silly idea to have a different school year to that of our neighbors. Plus having a three month gap in the middle of the school year decrease attainment as pupils forget what they learnt about before the summer break and waste time re-learning things. Conventional wisdom is in this case better than your selective dysfunction.

[Fulflood]

I am fine with summer break, and in fact considering our location in Mediterranean we must have a summer break however academic year should start in January and end in December (December being winter holiday) because that is how normal calendar works. Why start/end it in middle of the year?
Basically, lets have summer break in June and end of year break in December..


These would seem to resolve the problem, unless I've missed something. I'll support these amendments.
Great, I will post changed version of EFEA soon.

Are you unable to calculate anything that does not start in January and end in December senator? It would be a silly idea to have a different school year to that of our neighbors. Plus having a three month gap in the middle of the school year decrease attainment as pupils forget what they learnt about before the summer break and waste time re-learning things. Conventional wisdom is in this case better than your selective dysfunction.

The academic year should only start in late summer. Having something this different from anyone else, and with no consideration to the sweltering summers we have here makes no common sense. Basing it on an arbitrary calendar year for the sake of neat matching is an even less intelligent idea. This is about the wellbeing and development of our children, not our ability to line up the school and calendar years for the reason that 'it seems neat', when in actual fact, you're messing up the education any immigrants or emigrants to or from other countries, as well as anyone who goes to study in a foreign institution.

[Blassland]

Living in the southern (ish) US I have to say that summer-time schooling would be a waste of money and time as all staff members and students would be focused on not having a heat stroke (literally that happens), also it would waste lots of money on air conditioning costs

[Ainin]

Living in the southern (ish) US I have to say that summer-time schooling would be a waste of money and time as all staff members and students would be focused on not having a heat stroke (literally that happens), also it would waste lots of money on air conditioning costs

I don't think the temperature difference between winter and summer in Aurentina, since we are in the Mediterranean climate, is very large.

[Geilinor]

Section III of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and Article VI of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights guarantee a "right to live". Does that mean murder is illegal?

I'd think it would compel judges to consider murder as a deprivation of rights and allow the estate of the departed to make a case for punishment, at least. That being said, this doesn't make much of a distinction between different kinds of killing/death, or at least doesn't seem to impose a significant distinction which would allow murder and wrongful death as such, to be prioritized as a justice issue, i.e. as compared to accidental killings, etc.

We still need to specify between manslaughter, first-degree homicide, and second-degree.

[Maklohi Vai]

Living in the southern (ish) US I have to say that summer-time schooling would be a waste of money and time as all staff members and students would be focused on not having a heat stroke (literally that happens), also it would waste lots of money on air conditioning costs

I don't think the temperature difference between winter and summer in Aurentina, since we are in the Mediterranean climate, is very large.

Speaking as someone who lives in a Mediterranean climate, there's actually a 30 degree F swing between coldest winter and hottest summer.

EDIT: Aprox 55 to 85 where I am.

[Ainin]

I don't think the temperature difference between winter and summer in Aurentina, since we are in the Mediterranean climate, is very large.

Speaking as someone who lives in a Mediterranean climate, there's actually a 30 degree F swing between coldest winter and hottest summer.

EDIT: Aprox 55 to 85 where I am.

*doesn't understand Fahrenheit*
Pardon?

[Geilinor]

I am fine with summer break, and in fact considering our location in Mediterranean we must have a summer break however academic year should start in January and end in December (December being winter holiday) because that is how normal calendar works. Why start/end it in middle of the year?
Basically, lets have summer break in June and end of year break in December..


These would seem to resolve the problem, unless I've missed something. I'll support these amendments.
Great, I will post changed version of EFEA soon.

Are you unable to calculate anything that does not start in January and end in December senator? It would be a silly idea to have a different school year to that of our neighbors. Plus having a three month gap in the middle of the school year decrease attainment as pupils forget what they learnt about before the summer break and waste time re-learning things. Conventional wisdom is in this case better than your selective dysfunction.

Summer break shouldn't be 3 months and I don't think Great Nepal was saying that. It should be 8 weeks. Most countries have that much. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_holiday

[Ainin]

I'd say:
School Year: Last week of August - Last week of June
10 mandatory days off excluding bank holidays and special breaks
First week of March: Spring break
First week of November: Fall break
Last two weeks of December and first week of January: Winter break

[Geilinor]

Speaking as someone who lives in a Mediterranean climate, there's actually a 30 degree F swing between coldest winter and hottest summer.

EDIT: Aprox 55 to 85 where I am.

*doesn't understand Fahrenheit*
Pardon?

http://www.metric-conversions.org/temperature/fahrenheit-to-celsius.htm

[Maklohi Vai]

Speaking as someone who lives in a Mediterranean climate, there's actually a 30 degree F swing between coldest winter and hottest summer.

EDIT: Aprox 55 to 85 where I am.

*doesn't understand Fahrenheit*
Pardon?

About 13 to 30 C

[Ainin]

*doesn't understand Fahrenheit*
Pardon?

About 13 to 30 C

I suppose that's... California?

[Geilinor]

And could easily be abolished by judges anyway, could it not?

"Certainly" now? I don't recall you running this little assumption past any actual Communists. Even then, home schooling is still allowed, so nobody is "forced" to learn things exactly as the government fits. You just want greedy people to turn profits from the provision of a basic service that every child has a right to receive on equal footing.

Of course, if private schools end up discriminating against students with disabilities (and I have not yet heard of a situation where this is not the case), perhaps you have a point that they shouldn't be allowed. Private schools are borrowing/stealing public legitimacy in the state licensing process; if the public sees fit to regulate them, so much the better.


The presence and power of our judiciary implies "reasonable" restrictions.


This from the freedom/options guy
That being said, there is nothing wrong with adding "fair and reasonable".

Private schools are charities, nobody makes any money from them.

Secondly private schools provide about 2000% more help to disabled pupils than the state sector. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Private schools are not always charities. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For-profit_education OOC: As a disabled student in a public school, I feel adequetely supported. It highly depends on the school, which we can easily avoid by providing enough funding.

[Maklohi Vai]

About 13 to 30 C

I suppose that's... California?

Yup. Figured me out

Here's a map:

[Yanalia]

This has enough sponsors for the queue.

Revenue Collection Act of 2013
Drafted by: Yanalia [RG], Free South Califas [CP]
Sponsors: Ainin [TR], Pyreneesia [PC], Maklohi Vai [LD], Gothmogs [TR], Jozef van Oostvoorne [CP], Realm of God [PC], Geilinor [LD], Potenco [RG]

ASTOUNDED that the nation has no legal method of enforcing its tax laws,
REALIZING that taxation enforcement is necessary to provide revenue for the state,
RECOGNIZING ALSO that the laws of the state must be enforced,

The government of the nation hereby enacts the following.

Definitions:

Abuse is defined as the usage of executive powers by government agents beyond those legally granted to them, as well as the violation of restrictions on their powers.
Taxes are defined as any monetary funds collected by the government of the nation.
Audit is defined as examining the financial status of a taxpayer, in order to verify compliance with tax laws.
Taxpayer is defined as any person, organization, or other entity which must by law pay taxes to the government.

Section 1: The Revenue Collection Agency

1. The Revenue Collection Agency, known hereafter in this act as the RCA, shall be established, under the auspices of the Ministry of the Treasury, for the purposes of enforcing the nation's tax laws, collecting government revenue, ensuring the veracity of taxation reports provided by the citizens of the nation, and pursuing those who violate the nation's tax laws.
2. The RCA shall also be legally allowed to issue administrative rulings on taxation issues, within the confines of its legally enshrined grant of authority.
3. When enforcing the nation's taxation laws, RCA agents shall be bound by all laws limiting any and all other law enforcement officers.
4. Citizens of the nation may enter into litigation with the RCA on grounds of its violation of any legislation limiting its powers.

Section 2: The Commissioner of the Revenue Collection Agency

1. The RCA shall be headed by the Commissioner of the Revenue Collection Agency, known hereafter in this act as the RCA Commissioner, or the Commissioner.
2. Given the importance of close oversight over the dealings of the RCA, the RCA Commissioner shall be appointed by the Minister of the Treasury.
3. The RCA Commissioner shall be responsible for supervising the RCA in its fulfillment of its duties.
4. The RCA Commissioner shall report to the Ministry of the Treasury, who shall approve the regulations and ruling of the RCA on taxation revenue issues.
5. It is the legal obligation of the Commissioner to report any abuses within the RCA as soon as the Commissioner receives any knowledge of them directly to the Minister of the Treasury.
6. The Commissioner shall be allowed to create whatever structure necessary for the operation of the RCA within the agency's grant of authority, within the confines of the RCA budget.

Section 3: The Budget of the RCA

1. The budget of the RCA shall be allocated by the Minister of the Treasury, who is by law required to provide sufficient funds to meet the RCA Commissioner's proposed structure, or else propose a different structure and budget which shall suffice for the agency to fulfill its mandate.
2. The Senate is bound to provide a sufficient budget to the Ministry of the Treasury to provide for the RCA's operations.
3. If the Senate does not fulfill Section 3, Clause 2 of this act, the Minister of the Treasury will not be held legally accountable for his failure to fulfill Section 3, Clause 1 of the same.

Section 4: Revenue Collection

1. The RCA shall be responsible for the collection and counting of all taxes created by the Senate.
2. Taxpayers shall report all necessary financial details for the calculation of taxes, as well as details necessary for the identification of individual taxpayers, to the RCA.
3. For the purposes of income tax, employers shall also report the details specified in Section 4, Clause 2 of this act for their employees to the RCA.
3. Details must be reported fully and entirely truthfully.
3. Methods and forms for reporting details, as well as the various method of collection of money, shall be created and modified as needed by the RCA Commissioner, with the approval of the Minister of the Treasury.
4. The end result of the processes used by the RCA must result in the legally defined amount of money taken from the taxpayer over the legally defined period, though money may be taken as many times as specified by the RCA Commissioner and approved by the Minister of the Treasury.
5. The RCA may audit any taxpayer, using methodology determined by the RCA Commissioner and approved by the Ministry of the Treasury.
6. Such audits, or their frequency, intensity or comprehensiveness, shall be applied equally to all taxpayers, except as specified in this act, or as determined by random or unavoidable factors.
7. Such audits, nor their aspects listed above, shall never be used for the purpose of harassment; unfairly raising the cost of business in a particular sector; establishing political or philosophical dominance except affirming the necessity for taxes to be raised and paid; or enabling de jure or de facto discrimination on the basis of ethnicity, socioeconomic standing, appearance, sexual orientation, gender identity, political preference, or similarly irrelevant or vicious factor; except as unavoidable.
8. A taxpaying entity may only be audited if it has never been audited or if its last audit ended over two years before. Exceptions may be granted by court order if it is determined that said entity has made substantially inaccurate or dishonest claims to the RCA, and a preponderance of evidence suggests that auditing said entity may be crucial for the proper functions of government to be fully funded and carried out in good faith.

Section 5: Tax Evasion

1. All those who by law must pay taxes will face legal repercussions if they do not comply.
2. Tax evasion, the crime of not paying legally owed taxes or lowering one's legally owed taxes in an unlawful manner, is hereby illegal in the nation and is a charge that can be applied to suspects when arrested by the police force.
3. In cases involving sums of money over $2 million NSC, the RCA shall provide a reward of at least 10% of recovered funds as a result of the discovery of tax evasion to those who report the crime to the RCA.
4. The RCA shall be allowed to begin an audit for the purposes of uncovering and only given suspicion of tax evasion, remaining within its legal limitations and using methodology created by the Commissioner and approved by the Ministry of the Treasury.
5. If an audit reveals that some (combination of) asset(s) valued at over $70,000 NSC might have otherwise avoided scrutiny for tax purposes, the tax form and audit documentation shall be analysed by (an)other RCA auditor(s) for the purpose of counteracting the effect of unavoidable cognitive bias by the first auditor(s), specifically determining whether there are likely to be assets which may avoid scrutiny for tax purposes. If there are, the RCA may conduct a 'secondary audit' of the same entity, focusing on finding and accurately describing those assets so as to determine any necessary taxes or fines.
6. The RCA shall have the power to impose fines for tax evasion and require the payment of any unlawfully evaded taxes.
7. The RCA shall not have the power to prosecute criminal cases, although its investigations may lead to and be used in criminal cases.
8. Late tax payments to the RCA shall be fined at a rate of 5% of the unpaid tax per month the reports are late, up to a maximum of 25%.
9. Intentional, materially false reporting of taxes, or assisting a taxpayer in this activity, shall be a criminal offense that can lead to jail time and/or loss of property, as determined by the court.
10. Criminal tax evasion cases shall be prosecuted by the Ministry of Justice.
11. If an accuracy issue is discovered on tax returns by the RCA, and a tax increase results, the RCA shall have the power to fine the taxpayer a set percentage of the missing taxes on top of the missing tax payments which must be made. These percentages will vary based on the egregiousness of the offense, and will be determined by the Commissioner and approved by the Minister of the Treasury.

Section 6: Legal Limitations on the RCA

1. RCA agents shall not have the power to arrest or detain suspects.
2. The RCA shall never consider any taxpayer's religion, political views, appearance, sexuality, skin color, age, or socioeconomic status in any of its operations, except where explicitly and specifically directed by legislation to consider specific characteristics for specific taxation.
3. The RCA shall be forbidden to ask any non-financial details of taxpayers beyond those necessary for identification of taxpayers and those specified in legislation.

Section 7: Investigations into the RCA

1. At any time, the RCA Commissioner may order an internal investigation of the RCA to discover abuses and violations of the law.
2. The Revenue Oversight Committee, hereafter referred to in this act as the ROC, shall be created within the Senate for the purpose of overseeing the RCA.
3. The Commissioner shall announce internal investigations and their purposes to both the Minister of the Treasury and the Senate upon the commencement of an investigation, report any details he/she chooses during the investigation, and announce its termination and results at the investigation's closure.
4. At any time, the Minister of the Treasury or the ROC, referred to together for this purpose as the Investigation Initiator, may initiate an external investigation of the RCA.
5. The Investigation Initiator shall create an Investigator-General, hereafter referred to as the IG, to oversee the investigation of the RCA.
6. Only one external investigation may be ongoing at any time.
7. The IG shall report all details that the Investigation Initiator demands to the Investigation Initiator.
8. The discovery of illegal/abusive activity within the RCA shall lead to the prosecution of any and all persons responsible for the abuse.
9. Violations of any portion of this act by RCA agents shall be considered an arrestable offense on charges of abuse of power.
10. Any agent who upon learning of abuse or illegal activity does not report it to his/her superior in a timely manner shall be considered an accomplice to abuse of power, and charged accordingly.
11. The RCA Commissioner must initiate an internal investigation in a timely manner upon his/her discovery of multiple, related cases of abuse or illegal activity in the RCA, or else face removal from the post and potential charges of being an accomplice to abuse of power, depending on the results of external investigation.
12. Upon the initiation of an external investigation, all operating internal investigations must be stopped immediately, and all findings, documents, and information associated with them reported to the IG in a timely manner.

[TotallyRadLiberalDemocrats]

Differences
• TRP supports free legalization of soft drugs and has no position on hard drugs, LDP supports regulation and taxation of drugs if legalized
• TRP supports a welfare state, LDP supports free health care for those who cannot get private health care
• TRP actively supports space exploration, the LDP does not
• TRP is slightly more pacifistic than the LDP
• TRP is against all WMDs, LDP wants them for deterrent purposes
Similarities
• Everything else
Compromise for the sake of a merger
• Soft drugs should be legal, but taxed and regulated
• Free health care should be an alternative to private health care
• Space exploration should occur in private and public sectors
• Wars are unnecessary unless attacked
• No WMDs
Totally Rad and the Liberal Democrats should permanently dissolve and together form a new party based on their similarities and the compromises listed, the new party should spearhead the United Center Coalition