NSG Senate Coffee Shop [NSG Senate]

[The Nihilistic view]

It falls apart, can't rule. New elections with the halves of the coalition on different sides.

OK, sure, but couldn't the Coalition still rule as tyrants as long as we all agreed? Suppose a Minister was to take an action circumventing the democratic process, but one which all of the Cabinet agreed to?

I just said. Bring on the civil war!!!

[Yanalia]

OK, sure, but couldn't the Coalition still rule as tyrants as long as we all agreed? Suppose a Minister was to take an action circumventing the democratic process, but one which all of the Cabinet agreed to?

I just said. Bring on the civil war!!!

So you are saying that would be legal?

[Wolfmanne]

OK, sure, but couldn't the Coalition still rule as tyrants as long as we all agreed? Suppose a Minister was to take an action circumventing the democratic process, but one which all of the Cabinet agreed to?

I just said. Bring on the civil war!!!

And I would probably endorse the Gendarmes in stamping out all insurgents and rioters.

[The Nihilistic view]

It falls apart, can't rule. New elections with the halves of the coalition on different sides.

It'd be quite hilarious.

I agree it would.

[Great Nepal]

Senatorial Major Incident Inquest
Urgency: Very High| Drafted by: Great Nepal| Co-sponsors: The IASM, Mishmahig, Gallup, Zeonic States

In light of recent terrorist attacks upon this fair nation, in light of failure to form a inquest to investigate the attack, this senate further determines urgent need to have senatorial inquest into the attack. As such, be it enacted by the powers granted to this senate by the powers given to it by the people of this nation as follows,
Section 1 - Declaration
This senate, hereby declares the recent series attack on the capital to be unforgivable acts of terrorism which cost lives of more than eighteen brave men and women of this nation who sacrificed their lives while service to the state. This senate therefore commends all the victims of most recent terrorist attack in senate as models of civic service in the face of threats and condemns the terrorist attack as cowardly, unforgivable and intolerable offence.

Section 2 - Recommendation
This act, while does not require passing of judicial act, it strongly recommends its passage.

Section 3 - Senatorial Major Incident Inquest
a) This senate, hereby creates Senatorial Major Incident Inquest (henceforth referred to as inquest) as means to carry out investigation on to serious incident, which may be declared by senate provided any one of the following conditions are met:-

- There has been loss of multiple lives in a violent manner caused in same or related incident.
- There has been act of terrorism or threat of thereof as defined by emergency anti-terrorism and anti-treason act, irrelevant of passage of aforementioned act.
- There has been act of treason or threat of thereof as defined by emergency anti-terrorism and anti-treason act, irrelevant of passage of aforementioned act.

b) Inquest shall not have power to make judicial rulings nor shall it interfere with processes of the court.
c) Inquest shall have power to issue subpoena ad testificandum and subpoena duces tecum as it sees fit to assist in its investigation.
d) Failure to comply with either subpoena defined in section 3d shall be considered contempt of judicial process which shall be a felony which will be tried by a judicial court. Contempt of judicial process shall be a crime equivalent to contempt of court.
e) Inquest shall have power to order detainment of any citizen or non-citizen for singular and non-renewable period not exceeding 48 hours for purposes of testifying, should it view individual as holding crucial evidence related to the inquest.
f) To renew the term of detainment as described in section 3e, individual must be presented before a judge with their legal counsel present. The judge must authorise further detainment if he or she sees fit.
g) Inquest shall have authority to find any individual guilty of administrative neglect which shall be administrative offence provided two third of the members of inquest are convinced beyond reasonable doubt as to the guilt of individual.
h) Inquest shall have authority up to and including power to dismiss any individual, with sole exception of senator from position as member of senate, found guilty under section 3g. While it shall not have power to impose criminal sanctions, it may at its discretion refer the matter to criminal court for further sanctions.
i) No sentence passed by the inquest shall not prevent future action by a judicial court.
j) Inquisition shall at end of its term, provide official report in front of open senate with recommendation to prevent similar incidents occurring in future.
k) To exercise any of the powers stated in section 3, there must be three fifth majorities within the inquisition unless stated otherwise.
l) Composition of any inquest shall be such that there shall be one representative from every party with representation in senate with more than five members. In addition to this, there shall be one expert in the major incident as well as three randomly selected members of public who meet following criteria:-

- Over or equal to age of 18.
- Of sound mind.
- Without any criminal record with exception of moving violations.
- Not affiliated with any political party, either official or unofficial.
- Not suspected to be member of any terrorist organisations.

Section 4 - Establishment of Senate Bombing Senatorial Major Incident Inquest
This act establishes Senate Bombing Senatorial Major Incident Inquest with powers and duties as described in section 3 with objective to thoroughly investigate any and all individuals and organisations which are at fault for series of terrorist attacks in the senate including but not limited to series of bombing in senate building along with kidnapping attempts and assassination attempts on senators along with any incidents inquest believes to be related to the series of attack. Their area of jurisdiction shall be universal.

Guys, any suggestions before I submit this?

[NSG Senate Administrators]

From an admin perspective, it seems as though the lawsuit to push the MoI out of office is based off of things that Costa can't control. Nepal has already shown he was online, but that's not proof of culpability. There's also a problem with the bombings there, which I'll get to later. There's also an issue with IC/OOC. This is an IC lawsuit hurting what may be OOC problems. Unless you have evidence that IC shows a lack of action, you don't really have a case here.

Now, about the "second set of bombings." Those never happened, as they were made up by non-admins describing an event over which they had no IC control. I repeat, the second round of bombings is hereby wiped, retconned, done with, whatever you want to call it. To clarify, senators may have things happen to themselves IC that they can control IC, but they may not RP other people's actions to any unapproved extent. Basic RP etiquette there.

Lastly, this whole mess has been hard to deal with for most people involved. We gave you a scenario, but it quickly got twisted, stretched out, and ultimately turned into a monster that we didn't anticipate. Maybe that's our bad for thinking this Senate would be more on top of it, but regardless, it means we won't be having anymore crisis scenarios until everyone calms down, cleans up, and isn't screaming at each other. If people don't reform, then we won't introduce anything that's just going to aggravate it.

[The Nihilistic view]

I just said. Bring on the civil war!!!

So you are saying that would be legal?

It would be i suppose, you would be crashing the whole RP but you could.

The Admins might move into stop it though.

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

I'd like to co-sponsor this legislation. Thank you.

Awesome! That puts us at 8 co-sponsors! Nothing can stop this train of political glory now!

Except a sincere commitment to economic responsibility, something this bill wholly opposes.

I mean, seriously, what's with the authoritarian right's fetish for giving totally dishonest names to the bills they propose? I mean, do they seriously think we'll just take their word for it and not bother to read it?

[Yanalia]

So you are saying that would be legal?

It would be i suppose, you would be crashing the whole RP but you could.

The Admins might move into stop it though.

No, Senator, it would not be. The Republican Executive Act has more sense than that, and wisely requires the executive powers of the Ministries to be defined by law, which has not been done for the Interiors. Wouldn't you agree this makes more sense than your proposed interpretation?

[The Nihilistic view]

From an admin perspective, it seems as though the lawsuit to push the MoI out of office is based off of things that Costa can't control. Nepal has already shown he was online, but that's not proof of culpability. There's also a problem with the bombings there, which I'll get to later. There's also an issue with IC/OOC. This is an IC lawsuit hurting what may be OOC problems. Unless you have evidence that IC shows a lack of action, you don't really have a case here.

Now, about the "second set of bombings." Those never happened, as they were made up by non-admins describing an event over which they had no IC control. I repeat, the second round of bombings is hereby wiped, retconned, done with, whatever you want to call it. To clarify, senators may have things happen to themselves IC that they can control IC, but they may not RP other people's actions to any unapproved extent. Basic RP etiquette there.

Lastly, this whole mess has been hard to deal with for most people involved. We gave you a scenario, but it quickly got twisted, stretched out, and ultimately turned into a monster that we didn't anticipate. Maybe that's our bad for thinking this Senate would be more on top of it, but regardless, it means we won't be having anymore crisis scenarios until everyone calms down, cleans up, and isn't screaming at each other. If people don't reform, then we won't introduce anything that's just going to aggravate it.

I have checked and wiped any mention of the second bombings from the petition OP thread.

[Great Nepal]

Well, without second bombing, anyone want to take "drafted by" title for the bill calling for resignation of minister of interiors Here's the bill in code form, just copy and paste.

Code: Select all

[box][align=center][size=150] Removal of Minister of Interiors, Michael Blumenthal [/size]
[size=85]Urgency: Very High| Drafted by: <insert your name>| Co-sponsors: The IASM, Mishmahig, Gallup, Zeonic States[/size][/align]
In light of recent terrorist attacks upon this fair nation and lack of response and action from ministry of interiors, incompetency of minister of interiors is abundantly clear to the people of this nation along with entire international community. This incompetency and muteness is not just embarrassment to senators and people of this nation but shows utter disrespect to the men and women who died in the attack. In light of failure of the minister of interiors to form a inquest to investigate the attack, this senate further determines urgent need to have senatorial inquest into the attack. As such, be it enacted by the powers granted to this senate by the powers given to it by the people of this nation as follows,
[b]Section 1 - Declaration[/b]
This senate, hereby declares the recent series attack on the capital to be unforgivable acts of terrorism which cost lives of more than eighteen brave men and women of this nation who sacrificed their lives while service to the state. This senate therefore commends all the victims of most recent terrorist attack in senate for their bravery and condemns the terrorist attack as cowardly, unforgivable and intolerable offence.

[b]Section 2 - Removal of Minister of Interiors, Michael Blumenthal[/b]
This senate, hereby finds response from Minister of Interiors to be grossly insufficient, insulting and unreflective of the seriousness of the attack on this nation and its people. As such, this senate while not determining guilt of any individuals involved, orders minister of interiors, Michael Blumenthal to step down from his position as minister of interiors and apologise to the family of victims of this disaster.[/box]

[The Nihilistic view]

It would be i suppose, you would be crashing the whole RP but you could.

The Admins might move into stop it though.

No, Senator, it would not be. The Republican Executive Act has more sense than that, and wisely requires the executive powers of the Ministries to be defined by law, which has not been done for the Interiors. Wouldn't you agree this makes more sense than your proposed interpretation?

EXECUTIVE POWER: Power to enforce executive orders as intended and given, authorized by law.

So if there is no law against it or limiting their powers they can do it. Its that simple.

[The Orson Empire]

Well, without second bombing, anyone want to take "drafted by" title for the bill calling for resignation of minister of interiors Here's the bill in code form, just copy and paste.

Code: Select all

[box][align=center][size=150] Removal of Minister of Interiors, Michael Blumenthal [/size]
[size=85]Urgency: Very High| Drafted by: <insert your name>| Co-sponsors: The IASM, Mishmahig, Gallup, Zeonic States[/size][/align]
In light of recent terrorist attacks upon this fair nation and lack of response and action from ministry of interiors, incompetency of minister of interiors is abundantly clear to the people of this nation along with entire international community. This incompetency and muteness is not just embarrassment to senators and people of this nation but shows utter disrespect to the men and women who died in the attack. In light of failure of the minister of interiors to form a inquest to investigate the attack, this senate further determines urgent need to have senatorial inquest into the attack. As such, be it enacted by the powers granted to this senate by the powers given to it by the people of this nation as follows,
[b]Section 1 - Declaration[/b]
This senate, hereby declares the recent series attack on the capital to be unforgivable acts of terrorism which cost lives of more than eighteen brave men and women of this nation who sacrificed their lives while service to the state. This senate therefore commends all the victims of most recent terrorist attack in senate for their bravery and condemns the terrorist attack as cowardly, unforgivable and intolerable offence.

[b]Section 2 - Removal of Minister of Interiors, Michael Blumenthal[/b]
This senate, hereby finds response from Minister of Interiors to be grossly insufficient, insulting and unreflective of the seriousness of the attack on this nation and its people. As such, this senate while not determining guilt of any individuals involved, orders minister of interiors, Michael Blumenthal to step down from his position as minister of interiors and apologise to the family of victims of this disaster.[/box]

*Walks in on crutches*
"You've got my support, Senator."

[Lemanrussland]

No, Senator, it would not be. The Republican Executive Act has more sense than that, and wisely requires the executive powers of the Ministries to be defined by law, which has not been done for the Interiors. Wouldn't you agree this makes more sense than your proposed interpretation?

EXECUTIVE POWER: Power to enforce executive orders as intended and given, authorized by law.

So if there is no law against it or limiting their powers they can do it. Its that simple.

You're essentially arguing that the government can do anything so long as there is no law forbidding it from doing so, which is clearly not how law or government works. Government power must be enumerated through laws.

[Yanalia]

No, Senator, it would not be. The Republican Executive Act has more sense than that, and wisely requires the executive powers of the Ministries to be defined by law, which has not been done for the Interiors. Wouldn't you agree this makes more sense than your proposed interpretation?

EXECUTIVE POWER: Power to enforce executive orders as intended and given, authorized by law.

So if there is no law against it or limiting their powers they can do it. Its that simple.

Executive powers is not a term that means you can be a dictator. The President of the United States, for example, has certain executive powers; others he does not have. As such, the limits of the powers of the Ministries must be defined by law, as stated in the Republican Executive Act, and cannot assumed to be limitless until limited. Quite the contrary; the Ministries are powerless until specific powers are given them.

[The Orson Empire]

From an admin perspective, it seems as though the lawsuit to push the MoI out of office is based off of things that Costa can't control. Nepal has already shown he was online, but that's not proof of culpability. There's also a problem with the bombings there, which I'll get to later. There's also an issue with IC/OOC. This is an IC lawsuit hurting what may be OOC problems. Unless you have evidence that IC shows a lack of action, you don't really have a case here.

Now, about the "second set of bombings." Those never happened, as they were made up by non-admins describing an event over which they had no IC control. I repeat, the second round of bombings is hereby wiped, retconned, done with, whatever you want to call it. To clarify, senators may have things happen to themselves IC that they can control IC, but they may not RP other people's actions to any unapproved extent. Basic RP etiquette there.

Lastly, this whole mess has been hard to deal with for most people involved. We gave you a scenario, but it quickly got twisted, stretched out, and ultimately turned into a monster that we didn't anticipate. Maybe that's our bad for thinking this Senate would be more on top of it, but regardless, it means we won't be having anymore crisis scenarios until everyone calms down, cleans up, and isn't screaming at each other. If people don't reform, then we won't introduce anything that's just going to aggravate it.

Alright, I'll just say my senator was injured in the first set of bombings.

[Yanalia]

Furthermore, the PLEA specifically puts the police under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Justice, not the Ministry of the Interiors.

[The Nihilistic view]

EXECUTIVE POWER: Power to enforce executive orders as intended and given, authorized by law.

So if there is no law against it or limiting their powers they can do it. Its that simple.

You're essentially arguing that the government can do anything so long as there is no law forbidding it from doing so, which is clearly not how law or government works. Government power must be enumerated through laws.

All democracies have laws that limit power. We don't yet have those laws , we have said we will have those laws soon but at the moment we don't.

[Lemanrussland]

You're essentially arguing that the government can do anything so long as there is no law forbidding it from doing so, which is clearly not how law or government works. Government power must be enumerated through laws.

All democracies have laws that limit power. We don't yet have those laws , we have said we will have those laws soon but at the moment we don't.

I vehemently disagree with your interpretation of the Republican Executive Act and Ministry Foundation Acts (particularly the Republican Executive Act, which says ministerial powers are established by law, not by the Ministers), but legally my opinion doesn't mean anything.

We need a Supreme Court to resolve these disagreements.

[Grenartia]

From an admin perspective, it seems as though the lawsuit to push the MoI out of office is based off of things that Costa can't control. Nepal has already shown he was online, but that's not proof of culpability. There's also a problem with the bombings there, which I'll get to later. There's also an issue with IC/OOC. This is an IC lawsuit hurting what may be OOC problems. Unless you have evidence that IC shows a lack of action, you don't really have a case here.

Now, about the "second set of bombings." Those never happened, as they were made up by non-admins describing an event over which they had no IC control. I repeat, the second round of bombings is hereby wiped, retconned, done with, whatever you want to call it. To clarify, senators may have things happen to themselves IC that they can control IC, but they may not RP other people's actions to any unapproved extent. Basic RP etiquette there.

Lastly, this whole mess has been hard to deal with for most people involved. We gave you a scenario, but it quickly got twisted, stretched out, and ultimately turned into a monster that we didn't anticipate. Maybe that's our bad for thinking this Senate would be more on top of it, but regardless, it means we won't be having anymore crisis scenarios until everyone calms down, cleans up, and isn't screaming at each other. If people don't reform, then we won't introduce anything that's just going to aggravate it.

Alright, I'll just say my senator was injured in the first set of bombings.

We could probably retcon the second set of explosions as some sort of natural gas thing...

[The Nihilistic view]

All democracies have laws that limit power. We don't yet have those laws , we have said we will have those laws soon but at the moment we don't.

I vehemently disagree with your interpretation of the Republican Executive Act and Ministry Foundation Acts (particularly the Republican Executive Act, which says ministerial powers are established by law, not by the Ministers), but legally my opinion doesn't mean anything.

We need a Supreme Court to resolve these disagreements.

I totally agree with you, we need a supreme court. Since we both have legitimate reasons for why we believe our interpretation is the best one.

[Mishmahig]

From an admin perspective, it seems as though the lawsuit to push the MoI out of office is based off of things that Costa can't control. Nepal has already shown he was online, but that's not proof of culpability. There's also a problem with the bombings there, which I'll get to later. There's also an issue with IC/OOC. This is an IC lawsuit hurting what may be OOC problems. Unless you have evidence that IC shows a lack of action, you don't really have a case here.

Now, about the "second set of bombings." Those never happened, as they were made up by non-admins describing an event over which they had no IC control. I repeat, the second round of bombings is hereby wiped, retconned, done with, whatever you want to call it. To clarify, senators may have things happen to themselves IC that they can control IC, but they may not RP other people's actions to any unapproved extent. Basic RP etiquette there.

Lastly, this whole mess has been hard to deal with for most people involved. We gave you a scenario, but it quickly got twisted, stretched out, and ultimately turned into a monster that we didn't anticipate. Maybe that's our bad for thinking this Senate would be more on top of it, but regardless, it means we won't be having anymore crisis scenarios until everyone calms down, cleans up, and isn't screaming at each other. If people don't reform, then we won't introduce anything that's just going to aggravate it.

Well, I wish I could say I was surprised, but.....I'm not surprised.

[Gothmogs]

Alright, I'll just say my senator was injured in the first set of bombings.

We could probably retcon the second set of explosions as some sort of natural gas thing...

All his idea. ^

[Great Nepal]

How many people would be in favour of act requiring national referendum to engage in non-defensive war or use of force?

[Gothmogs]

How many people would be in favour of act requiring national referendum to engage in non-defensive war or use of force?

I would have to see it first, but I would be interested.