Black Hand wrote:Also any basic data?
I already have an entire IC history to it, but data isn't as plentiful.
7.62x25mm Tokerev+P (military designation .30 TTok), straight blowback operated, single action. Other than that, no.
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by Benomia » Mon May 13, 2013 1:25 pm
Black Hand wrote:Also any basic data?
The Archangel Conglomerate wrote:You've obviously never seen the Benomian M16A3s.
Carathon wrote:*Logs in with the name of Troll Alliance and writes a short app with poor grammar and logic.*Somehow genuinely surprised when denied*
Ragnarum wrote:Ragnarum transforms into a giant godzilla like creature, then walks into the sunset while emotional music plays and Morgan Freeman narrates.
Kouralia wrote:Everyone hates us: we're MMW. We're like the poster children of Realismfggtry.
Sauritican wrote:We've all been spending too much time with Ben
by Aqizithiuda » Mon May 13, 2013 1:26 pm
Puzikas wrote:The reports I have read were nothing short of eye opening, as well as being possibly the most interesting thing I have seen since a ballistic cast of a V.L.D. bullet a month or two ago.
Presenting:
4.6x30 H&K, 5.7x28mm FN, and why 9x19 is not going away.
Let's start at the beginning.
At the end of the 1980s (1989-1990 area I believe), NATO issued a request for a small arm offering armor penetrating qualities in a "Personal Defense Weapon" (PDW) (See: Doc. D296, NATO). The two big Western European firearms manufacturing companies, FN and H&K responded to the request. FN had already been experimenting with smaller 5mm caliber weapons, and had a much larger dedicated research and development team than H&K did at the Time. This gave them a clearcut advantage, and 5.7x28 came to life in 1991. The round was put though the ringer but did end up being used in great deal by many tactical teams, SF soldiers, police forces, and soldiers In normal military units. It came under some pretty heavy scrutiny due to the poor terminal performance of the round when not penetrating armor, and even to this day it still suffers that same reputation. In 1999, a push was made to make 5.7x28mm FN a standard NATO round.
Around the same time, H&K introduced their PDW round, the 4.6x30H&K. 8 years late to the party, H&K showed up drunk, angry, and driving a police cruiser that was reported stolen about a month ago two counties over. Germany took to the native companies 4.6x30, with Britain jumping in the band wagon shortly after. Britain retained the 5.7x28 round, but still utilized the smaller 4.6x30. As standardization was pushed though, Germany opted to give NATO the middle finger. The standardization was stopped, and to this day has not been pushed though.
This sparked a new lot of trials. The initial trials declared 5.7 a clearcut superior round, while testing by H&K announced 4.6 a far superior caliber. The trials were carried out by ETBS in France in 2002, compounded of 22 major tests. These included: Ballistic gel, body armor penetration, maximum effective range, energy retention, and overall accuracy. In nearly every trial, the 5.7x28 came put on top, offering a stated 27% more effectiveness over the 4.6x30mm H&K and an 11% more effective ratio on armored targets. I have found a variety of different tests that give similar numerical values (Highest against soft: 36% increase over 4.6, lowest 14%. Armor: 22%, 8%.) to 5.7x28 over 4.6x30. Overall, the 5.7x28 preforms a 17.8% better than 4.6x30 in both armor and tissue.
Now, if you have been here since MMW 6 (I believe that's when I came around) and 7, you know my feelings, as well as a slew of other professionals on the subject* of the 5.7x28mm (I consider it to be nothing more than a .22 WMR +P Basically). The 5.7x28 typically penetrates well, but offers very little energy dump, and often fails to expand. Those that do expand offer little advantage over the 9x19 NATO, and the 9x19 that does expand or fragment outclasses the 5.7 in nearly every way. The designers clearly anticipated this, and gave the 5.7x28 a center of weight behind the geometrical median point, allowing the bullet to tumble. This tumble effect however is minimal all too often. The 5.7 offers very little soft tissue crush cavity and a small temporary stretch cavity on soft targets, effectively making it a similar profile to .22WMR (I have a comparison picture somewhere)It has a low overall surface area of contact vs. The larger 9x19mm. 5.7 crushes a smaller surface area, even when in full yaw it only SLIGHTLY crushes more than 9x19.
Simply put: 5.7x28mm offers a poor terminal performance. So what about 4.6x30? As I outlined before, 4.6x30 offered no more effective terminal performance when compared to 5.7x28, offering no better armor penetration or soft tissue damage than the 5.7x28. This, as one might note, makes it basically outclassed in nearly every area vs. 5.7. A nation that uses 5.56 will have no issue producing 5.7, due to similarities in the rounds basic manufacturing process. Assembly lines require little reworking in order to begin producing 5.7x28mm. The 4.6 does. 5.7 also delivers a lower recoil impulse to the operator, as well as having less barrel wear on the weapon.
Now, why did I say "Why 9x19 isn't going anywhere"?
because it isn't, and it preforms better than both of these rounds. In armor penetrating versions, 9x19 outclasses and outperforms both of these rounds in armor penetrative ability inside of 50m, and offers a greater wound profile and terminal effect than both rounds.
This all said, 5.7x28 does have its pros: Its armor penetrating abilities are very good at distances further than the 9x19, its typically considered very controllable, and its decently accurate.
4.6x30mm also has its market, but what it is I am not sure.
In summary: 5.7x28 was made to penetrate body armor and preforms much better than 4.6x30, which is not saying much as 5.7 is a very poor preforming round. Both have their market and I assume both are here to stay, and we will not see them to go away any time soon. 9x19 outpreforms both inside of 50m, and most likely out to 100m it is roughly on par.
*I do not consider myself a professional
Fordorsia wrote:Because I had no idea where else this could possibly go.
Need to defend a whole island/country? Fordorsia's got ya covered.
(Image)
Details: http://airborneleaf.deviantart.com/art/Fordorsia-Island-Defense-Cannon-Mk-3-371452252?ga_submit_new=10%253A1368470644&ga_type=edit&ga_changes=1&ga_recent=1
Ulfr-Reich wrote:The Archangel Conglomerate wrote:Damn... I was really hoping that the 4.6mm would fare better. Oh well.
So,
Thompson SMG chambered in 7.92x25mm for WWII military.
Y/N?
Go Owens, laste war style Austen or Schmeisser, the Thompson was way too freakin' prone to catastrophic failures in the field.
Also, I made a buck n' ball shell for my 50mm grenade launcher;
Benomia wrote:My notanm1911 using API blowback for best machining pistolololol, yes/yes?
Nationstatelandsville wrote:I liked the prostitute - never quote me on that.
Puzikas wrote:This is beyond condom on toes. This is full on Bra-on-balls.
Puzikas wrote:Im not cheep-You can quote me on that.
Hellraiser-Army wrote:and clearly I am surrounded by idiots who never looked at a blueprint before...
by Boer Republics (Ancient) » Mon May 13, 2013 1:27 pm
by Nirvash Type TheEND » Mon May 13, 2013 1:27 pm
Black Hand wrote:Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:Slide needs to be a bit bigger, and the grip could stand to be a bit more slanted. That or you'll need to make the slide and part of the frame hang off the back.
TT-33 says Hai.
Seems like the issue to me is that the Grip is just a awkward length that's all.. Otherwise beno you have made an Massive Improvement since my last comments to you, well done sir.
Also any basic data?
by Benomia » Mon May 13, 2013 1:29 pm
Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:Black Hand wrote:TT-33 says Hai.
Seems like the issue to me is that the Grip is just a awkward length that's all.. Otherwise beno you have made an Massive Improvement since my last comments to you, well done sir.
Also any basic data?
Yep. Nothing behind the grip here. Nothing at all.
The Archangel Conglomerate wrote:You've obviously never seen the Benomian M16A3s.
Carathon wrote:*Logs in with the name of Troll Alliance and writes a short app with poor grammar and logic.*Somehow genuinely surprised when denied*
Ragnarum wrote:Ragnarum transforms into a giant godzilla like creature, then walks into the sunset while emotional music plays and Morgan Freeman narrates.
Kouralia wrote:Everyone hates us: we're MMW. We're like the poster children of Realismfggtry.
Sauritican wrote:We've all been spending too much time with Ben
by Black Hand » Mon May 13, 2013 1:30 pm
Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:Black Hand wrote:TT-33 says Hai.
Seems like the issue to me is that the Grip is just a awkward length that's all.. Otherwise beno you have made an Massive Improvement since my last comments to you, well done sir.
Also any basic data?
Yep. Nothing behind the grip here. Nothing at all.
Nirvash Type TheEND wrote:Black Hand wrote:TT-33 says Hai.
Seems like the issue to me is that the Grip is just a awkward length that's all.. Otherwise beno you have made an Massive Improvement since my last comments to you, well done sir.
Also any basic data?
Yep. Nothing behind the grip here. Nothing at all.
East America wrote:essentially a piston driven m16 in 300 blackout
Puzikas wrote:You clearly don't know about the baby bald eagle built into each one.
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Why is there a "joke option" included in the poll when "yes" is already there?
Fordorsia wrote:Sight rib? Like a barbecue?
Fordorsia wrote:Why sell the restored weapons when you can keep them in a military-themed sex dungeon?
San-Silvacian wrote:Nothing says I love you like a fine Belgian firearm.
Bezombia wrote: "glorious discharge"
by Nirvash Type TheEND » Mon May 13, 2013 1:30 pm
by San-Silvacian » Mon May 13, 2013 1:31 pm
by Nua Corda » Mon May 13, 2013 1:31 pm
by Benomia » Mon May 13, 2013 1:31 pm
The Archangel Conglomerate wrote:You've obviously never seen the Benomian M16A3s.
Carathon wrote:*Logs in with the name of Troll Alliance and writes a short app with poor grammar and logic.*Somehow genuinely surprised when denied*
Ragnarum wrote:Ragnarum transforms into a giant godzilla like creature, then walks into the sunset while emotional music plays and Morgan Freeman narrates.
Kouralia wrote:Everyone hates us: we're MMW. We're like the poster children of Realismfggtry.
Sauritican wrote:We've all been spending too much time with Ben
by Benomia » Mon May 13, 2013 1:34 pm
The Archangel Conglomerate wrote:You've obviously never seen the Benomian M16A3s.
Carathon wrote:*Logs in with the name of Troll Alliance and writes a short app with poor grammar and logic.*Somehow genuinely surprised when denied*
Ragnarum wrote:Ragnarum transforms into a giant godzilla like creature, then walks into the sunset while emotional music plays and Morgan Freeman narrates.
Kouralia wrote:Everyone hates us: we're MMW. We're like the poster children of Realismfggtry.
Sauritican wrote:We've all been spending too much time with Ben
by Fordorsia » Mon May 13, 2013 1:34 pm
Aqizithiuda wrote:Fordorsia wrote:Because I had no idea where else this could possibly go.
Need to defend a whole island/country? Fordorsia's got ya covered.
(Image)
Details: http://airborneleaf.deviantart.com/art/Fordorsia-Island-Defense-Cannon-Mk-3-371452252?ga_submit_new=10%253A1368470644&ga_type=edit&ga_changes=1&ga_recent=1
Lulzy, impractical and all kinds of awesome.
San-Silvacian wrote:Forgot to take off my Rhodie shorts when I went to sleep.
Woke up in bitches and enemy combatants.
Crookfur wrote:Speak for yourself, Crookfur infantry enjoy the sheer uber high speed low drag operator nature of their tactical woad
Spreewerke wrote:One of our employees ate a raw kidney and a raw liver and the only powers he gained was the ability to summon a massive hospital bill.
Premislyd wrote:This is probably the best thing somebody has ever spammed.
Puzikas wrote:That joke was so dark it has to smile to be seen at night.
by Fordorsia » Mon May 13, 2013 1:35 pm
San-Silvacian wrote:Forgot to take off my Rhodie shorts when I went to sleep.
Woke up in bitches and enemy combatants.
Crookfur wrote:Speak for yourself, Crookfur infantry enjoy the sheer uber high speed low drag operator nature of their tactical woad
Spreewerke wrote:One of our employees ate a raw kidney and a raw liver and the only powers he gained was the ability to summon a massive hospital bill.
Premislyd wrote:This is probably the best thing somebody has ever spammed.
Puzikas wrote:That joke was so dark it has to smile to be seen at night.
by Black Hand » Mon May 13, 2013 1:36 pm
Puzikas wrote:You clearly don't know about the baby bald eagle built into each one.
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Why is there a "joke option" included in the poll when "yes" is already there?
Fordorsia wrote:Sight rib? Like a barbecue?
Fordorsia wrote:Why sell the restored weapons when you can keep them in a military-themed sex dungeon?
San-Silvacian wrote:Nothing says I love you like a fine Belgian firearm.
Bezombia wrote: "glorious discharge"
by Premislyd » Mon May 13, 2013 1:37 pm
Pimps Inc wrote:Swastikas are not allowed in nationstates unless your are RPing as Nazi Germany or sumthing
by Boer Republics (Ancient) » Mon May 13, 2013 1:37 pm
by San-Silvacian » Mon May 13, 2013 1:37 pm
San-Silvacian wrote:Oh look. I didn't do what you said and you're now butthurt.
Just an average day with Corda.
by Black Hand » Mon May 13, 2013 1:39 pm
Puzikas wrote:You clearly don't know about the baby bald eagle built into each one.
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Why is there a "joke option" included in the poll when "yes" is already there?
Fordorsia wrote:Sight rib? Like a barbecue?
Fordorsia wrote:Why sell the restored weapons when you can keep them in a military-themed sex dungeon?
San-Silvacian wrote:Nothing says I love you like a fine Belgian firearm.
Bezombia wrote: "glorious discharge"
by Premislyd » Mon May 13, 2013 1:41 pm
Pimps Inc wrote:Swastikas are not allowed in nationstates unless your are RPing as Nazi Germany or sumthing
by Black Hand » Mon May 13, 2013 1:43 pm
Puzikas wrote:You clearly don't know about the baby bald eagle built into each one.
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Why is there a "joke option" included in the poll when "yes" is already there?
Fordorsia wrote:Sight rib? Like a barbecue?
Fordorsia wrote:Why sell the restored weapons when you can keep them in a military-themed sex dungeon?
San-Silvacian wrote:Nothing says I love you like a fine Belgian firearm.
Bezombia wrote: "glorious discharge"
by Premislyd » Mon May 13, 2013 1:44 pm
Pimps Inc wrote:Swastikas are not allowed in nationstates unless your are RPing as Nazi Germany or sumthing
by San-Silvacian » Mon May 13, 2013 1:46 pm
by Premislyd » Mon May 13, 2013 1:48 pm
San-Silvacian wrote:Premislyd wrote:
1. Looks like a pretty nice AK-47
2. AK-47 has it's own wikipedia page
3. Needs work
4. See "1"
AK-47 is a blanket term used the Soviets and later, CIA, for the first series of prototypes and early production model AKs. The AKM is the best known AK and is commonly called an AK-47 because of the CIA and Soviet blanket term.
So, no. gtfo.
Pimps Inc wrote:Swastikas are not allowed in nationstates unless your are RPing as Nazi Germany or sumthing
by Benomia » Mon May 13, 2013 1:49 pm
The Archangel Conglomerate wrote:You've obviously never seen the Benomian M16A3s.
Carathon wrote:*Logs in with the name of Troll Alliance and writes a short app with poor grammar and logic.*Somehow genuinely surprised when denied*
Ragnarum wrote:Ragnarum transforms into a giant godzilla like creature, then walks into the sunset while emotional music plays and Morgan Freeman narrates.
Kouralia wrote:Everyone hates us: we're MMW. We're like the poster children of Realismfggtry.
Sauritican wrote:We've all been spending too much time with Ben
by Nirvash Type TheEND » Mon May 13, 2013 1:49 pm
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