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Camelza
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Founded: Mar 04, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Camelza » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:02 am

Great Nepal wrote:
Camelza wrote:Finally, the monarchy bill made it!

So, how do we vote? We say "Aye" or "Monarchy/Republic"?

We are in discussion phase, at the moment I believe. Although I went to sleep yesterday at 00:23 so I am not certain if it has moved on to vote phase now.

We should really have a speaker for this senate elected in order to set things right.

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Imperiatom
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Founded: Mar 03, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Imperiatom » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:03 am

Great Nepal wrote:
Camelza wrote:Finally, the monarchy bill made it!

So, how do we vote? We say "Aye" or "Monarchy/Republic"?

We are in discussion phase, at the moment I believe. Although I went to sleep yesterday at 00:23 so I am not certain if it has moved on to vote phase now.


No still at debate. Since voting only ended 10 hours ago on the tax bill not everyone has had the chance to speak on the bills proposed.
Last edited by Imperiatom on Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:22 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Old Tyrannia
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Postby Old Tyrannia » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:49 am

Bleckonia wrote:I will vote for the Monarchist bill IF the red clauses are struck out:

Bill for the Establishment of a National Head of State

When, in the course of national events, it becomes necessary to establish an executive officer to act in the stead of the people as the representative of their interests in foreign realms, to act as their protector and to enact the policies of their duly elected representatives, this body has seen fit to establish the title of His or Her Majesty the King or Queen, and invest in this person the sovereignty of our state, as the living embodiment of the nation and first servant of its people.

The Sovereign shall be empowered to provide for the calling forth of the armed forces and will be entrusted with all the powers of the commander in chief of the armed forces.

The Sovereign shall be empowered to veto any act of the Senate not achieving a two-thirds majority, which shall then be reviewed by the Senate.

The Sovereign shall be empowered to act in behalf of the people in foreign realms and to receive and treat with foreign envoys.

The Sovereign shall be empowered to appoint envoys to foreign realms and organizations with the approval of the senate.

The Sovereign shall be empowered to enforce actions of the senate with appropriate force.

The Sovereign shall be empowered to abdicate at such a time that he finds himself unable to carry out his duties.

The Sovereign shall be empowered to select a designated heir, who shall be allowed to use the title of Crown Prince or Princess, and shall be formally adopted by the reigning sovereign so that the next monarch is in theory the son or daughter of the preceding monarch.

The Sovereign shall be styled as "His/Her Majesty" and addressed as "Your Majesty", and henceforth as "Sire/Highness", and his designated heir should be styled "His/Her Highness", and addressed as "Your Highness", and henceforth as "Sir/Madame".

Upon the death of the Sovereign, His or Her Majesty's successor must be elected by a plurality of the fully convened Senate.

By convention, the Senate shall elect as monarch the previous monarch's designated heir and adoptive son/daughter, however each Party may if it wishes nominate an alternative candidate and the Senate may choose to elect an alternative candidate and thus establish a new royal house and dynasty if it believes the designated heir to the throne is unsuitable.

Following the presentation of the candidates, the Senate shall recess for a proper period to consider the candidates at the end of which, each senator will be given the opportunity to cast his or her vote in favour of any of the candidates.

The Senate reserves the right to proclaim a ruling monarch unfit to rule and therefore force his or her immediate and involuntary abdication and begin a new election for the next monarch. Such a motion requires a majority of two thirds or more in the Senate.

With respect, Senator, I am unwilling to make such sweeping alterations to the bill in order to gain the vote of a single senator. I suggest the following compromises:
    1. Altering the first red section to "The Sovereign shall serve as ceremonial Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces and be empowered to provide for the calling forth of the armed forces with the approval of the Senate."
    2. Altering the second red section to "The Sovereign shall be empowered to sign into law all acts of the Senate, and refuse royal assent to any act receiving less than 3/5 of the Senate's vote which shall then be reviewed by the Senate," and adding the clause "the Sovereign is required by law to sign into law all acts of the Senate receiving more than 3/5 of the Senate vote, and all acts refused royal assent once already."
    3. Altering the third and fourth red sections to "The Sovereign shall be empowered to appoint diplomatic envoys to other countries on the advice of the Senate and receive foreign envoys as Head of State at the discretion of the Senate."
    4. Removing the fifth red section.
Would this satisfy the honourable Senator?
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Gordano and Lysandus
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Postby Gordano and Lysandus » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:53 am

Tyrannia's compromises are very good.

Remember that the monarch's powers with the military are very de jure - de facto, that'll be the responsibility of the Secretariat of Defence and the Joint Command (between the Army Command, Admiralty, Fighter Command, Bomber Command and Special Forces Committee). Having the monarch as Commander-in-Chief is very much like the monarch's position as national figurehead.

The monarch can award medals for heroic soldiers, just as (s)he can award medals for outstanding citizens.
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Agritum
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Founded: May 09, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Agritum » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:33 am

I'll be on the watch for the voting session.

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Fulflood
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Founded: Dec 01, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Fulflood » Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:27 am

Great Nepal wrote:
Camelza wrote:So, fellow senators, did the tax act vote finally ended?

Yes, it ended yesterday and despite is flaws, it passed, setting this nation back decades.


That's true fellow Senator, because we would be in so much of a better, less backward place with no form of collecting revenue and therefore no money with which to enforce or make policy.
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Agritum
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Ex-Nation

Postby Agritum » Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:29 am

Fulflood wrote:
Great Nepal wrote:Yes, it ended yesterday and despite is flaws, it passed, setting this nation back decades.


That's true fellow Senator, because we would be in so much of a better, less backward place with no form of collecting revenue and therefore no money with which to enforce or make policy.

Please, let's abstain from debating on since passed bills. What is done is done. One may be unhappy of the results, but they still have been achieved democratically, and there is no further dispute to that.

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Imperiatom
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Founded: Mar 03, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Imperiatom » Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:57 am

Fulflood wrote:
Great Nepal wrote:Yes, it ended yesterday and despite is flaws, it passed, setting this nation back decades.


That's true fellow Senator, because we would be in so much of a better, less backward place with no form of collecting revenue and therefore no money with which to enforce or make policy.


:rofl:

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Nationalist State of Knox
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Postby Nationalist State of Knox » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:39 pm

So, has the voting begun?
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Great Nepal
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Postby Great Nepal » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:39 pm

Since Bodily Sovereignty Act reached enough support in coffee shop, I would like to submit this to be put in queue for debate in the floor.
Bodily Sovereignty Act
Urgency: Urgent| Drafted by: Great Nepal


This senate recognises self ownership and sovereignty of the individual as one of fundamental and inalienable rights held equally by all non-convicted men, women and children. Upholding principles held by philosophers William Rees-Mogg and James Dale Davidson, this senate enacts bodily sovereignty act (henceforth referred to as the act). For purposes of this act and future proposals following definitions have been utilized,
Person shall be defined as "a human being regarded as an individual".
Indivudal shall be defined as "a single human being as distinct from a group".
Human being shall be defined as "a man, woman, third gender or child of the species Homo sapiens, distinguished from other animals by superior mental development, power of articulate speech, and upright stance".
Child shall be defined as "a young human being from age of zero to legal age of majority which shall be defined by latter legislation".
Man shall be defined as "adult human with biological gender as male".
Woman shall be defined for this act as "adult human with biological gender as female".

By the powers vested in it, by the people and constitution, this senate hereby grants every non-convicted indivudal with sound mind, certain inalienable rights, unless their action are deemed hazardous to non-consenting indivudal or they are deemed to not be of sound mind by professional examining body. These rights shall fall under umbrella term of "bodily sovereignty rights". These rights are as follows:-
  • Self defence: If an indivudal is threatened with injury to their life or limb, or loss of bodily materials by actions of third party which may or may not be an indivudal, they shall be able to engage in self defence to neutralise the said threat by using all necessary force.
  • Reproductive rights: An indivudal will have final authority regarding their reproductive organs, sexual actions and reproduction provided, all indivudal involved in said act have provided informed consent to said act.
  • End of life: An indivudal shall have final authority regarding their end of life decisions and shall be able to end their own lives without fear of legal consequences. This senate shall make no laws that may criminalise suicide of any kind unless it causes direct harm to indivudal who has not provided informed consent.
  • Consumption: Indivudal shall have final authority on what they input into their bodies unless it is required as material evidence in a court of law. It must be made clear that this does not apply to recreational drugs, which shall be handled by future legislation in this senate.
  • Medical treatment: Indivudal shall be able to refuse medical treatment should they see fit unless it is required as material evidence in court of law. Refusal to accept medical treatment however shall be a valid reason to quarantine an indivudal, if it is professional opinion that disease they carry is highly contagious and hazardous to public.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Cosara
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Founded: Nov 06, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Cosara » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:44 pm

Great Nepal wrote:Since Bodily Sovereignty Act reached enough support in coffee shop, I would like to submit this to be put in queue for debate in the floor.
Bodily Sovereignty Act
Urgency: Urgent| Drafted by: Great Nepal


This senate recognises self ownership and sovereignty of the individual as one of fundamental and inalienable rights held equally by all non-convicted men, women and children. Upholding principles held by philosophers William Rees-Mogg and James Dale Davidson, this senate enacts bodily sovereignty act (henceforth referred to as the act). For purposes of this act and future proposals following definitions have been utilized,
Person shall be defined as "a human being regarded as an individual".
Indivudal shall be defined as "a single human being as distinct from a group".
Human being shall be defined as "a man, woman, third gender or child of the species Homo sapiens, distinguished from other animals by superior mental development, power of articulate speech, and upright stance".
Child shall be defined as "a young human being from age of zero to legal age of majority which shall be defined by latter legislation".
Man shall be defined as "adult human with biological gender as male".
Woman shall be defined for this act as "adult human with biological gender as female".

By the powers vested in it, by the people and constitution, this senate hereby grants every non-convicted indivudal with sound mind, certain inalienable rights, unless their action are deemed hazardous to non-consenting indivudal or they are deemed to not be of sound mind by professional examining body. These rights shall fall under umbrella term of "bodily sovereignty rights". These rights are as follows:-
  • Self defence: If an indivudal is threatened with injury to their life or limb, or loss of bodily materials by actions of third party which may or may not be an indivudal, they shall be able to engage in self defence to neutralise the said threat by using all necessary force.
  • Reproductive rights: An indivudal will have final authority regarding their reproductive organs, sexual actions and reproduction provided, all indivudal involved in said act have provided informed consent to said act.
  • End of life: An indivudal shall have final authority regarding their end of life decisions and shall be able to end their own lives without fear of legal consequences. This senate shall make no laws that may criminalise suicide of any kind unless it causes direct harm to indivudal who has not provided informed consent.
  • Consumption: Indivudal shall have final authority on what they input into their bodies unless it is required as material evidence in a court of law. It must be made clear that this does not apply to recreational drugs, which shall be handled by future legislation in this senate.
  • Medical treatment: Indivudal shall be able to refuse medical treatment should they see fit unless it is required as material evidence in court of law. Refusal to accept medical treatment however shall be a valid reason to quarantine an indivudal, if it is professional opinion that disease they carry is highly contagious and hazardous to public.

I oppose this if the :Reproductive Rights" part legalizes Abortion.
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Fulflood
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Posts: 645
Founded: Dec 01, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Fulflood » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:48 pm

Cosara wrote:
Great Nepal wrote:Since Bodily Sovereignty Act reached enough support in coffee shop, I would like to submit this to be put in queue for debate in the floor.
Bodily Sovereignty Act
Urgency: Urgent| Drafted by: Great Nepal


This senate recognises self ownership and sovereignty of the individual as one of fundamental and inalienable rights held equally by all non-convicted men, women and children. Upholding principles held by philosophers William Rees-Mogg and James Dale Davidson, this senate enacts bodily sovereignty act (henceforth referred to as the act). For purposes of this act and future proposals following definitions have been utilized,
Person shall be defined as "a human being regarded as an individual".
Indivudal shall be defined as "a single human being as distinct from a group".
Human being shall be defined as "a man, woman, third gender or child of the species Homo sapiens, distinguished from other animals by superior mental development, power of articulate speech, and upright stance".
Child shall be defined as "a young human being from age of zero to legal age of majority which shall be defined by latter legislation".
Man shall be defined as "adult human with biological gender as male".
Woman shall be defined for this act as "adult human with biological gender as female".

By the powers vested in it, by the people and constitution, this senate hereby grants every non-convicted indivudal with sound mind, certain inalienable rights, unless their action are deemed hazardous to non-consenting indivudal or they are deemed to not be of sound mind by professional examining body. These rights shall fall under umbrella term of "bodily sovereignty rights". These rights are as follows:-
  • Self defence: If an indivudal is threatened with injury to their life or limb, or loss of bodily materials by actions of third party which may or may not be an indivudal, they shall be able to engage in self defence to neutralise the said threat by using all necessary force.
  • Reproductive rights: An indivudal will have final authority regarding their reproductive organs, sexual actions and reproduction provided, all indivudal involved in said act have provided informed consent to said act.
  • End of life: An indivudal shall have final authority regarding their end of life decisions and shall be able to end their own lives without fear of legal consequences. This senate shall make no laws that may criminalise suicide of any kind unless it causes direct harm to indivudal who has not provided informed consent.
  • Consumption: Indivudal shall have final authority on what they input into their bodies unless it is required as material evidence in a court of law. It must be made clear that this does not apply to recreational drugs, which shall be handled by future legislation in this senate.
  • Medical treatment: Indivudal shall be able to refuse medical treatment should they see fit unless it is required as material evidence in court of law. Refusal to accept medical treatment however shall be a valid reason to quarantine an indivudal, if it is professional opinion that disease they carry is highly contagious and hazardous to public.

I oppose this if the :Reproductive Rights" part legalizes Abortion.


I think we need a happy compromise on abortion, like 20-25 weeks.

EDIT: If that's what the section is saying, which I'm not sure it is or should be.
Last edited by Fulflood on Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I go under the name Vyvland now (IIWiki page). This account is used for the odd foray into the Senate or NSG.
Straight male British apatheist pacifist environmentalist social liberal

Admin, New Democrat member for Lüborg (504) and ambassador to the Red-Greens in the Aurentine Senate. Minister of Business Safety of Aurentina. Apparently that deserves a ministry, but I'm not complaining. I'm probably none of these things anymore. | The Aurentine Phrasebook, my magnum opus.

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Great Nepal
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Founded: Jan 11, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Great Nepal » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:51 pm

Fulflood wrote:
Cosara wrote:I oppose this if the :Reproductive Rights" part legalizes Abortion.


I think we need a happy compromise on abortion, like 20-25 weeks.

EDIT: If that's what the section is saying, which I'm not sure it is or should be.

Intention of that part is to ensure everyone has control of their reproductive organs. However, I believe we should not discuss proposal that isn't on floor but on queue.
Last edited by Great Nepal on Sun Nov 29, 1995 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Fulflood
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Founded: Dec 01, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Fulflood » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:54 pm

Great Nepal wrote:
Fulflood wrote:
I think we need a happy compromise on abortion, like 20-25 weeks.

EDIT: If that's what the section is saying, which I'm not sure it is or should be.

Intention of that part is to ensure everyone has control of their reproductive organs. However, I believe we should not discuss proposal that isn't on floor but on queue.


Then it may, fellow Senator, be advisable to clarify, perhaps. Self-defence by 'necessary force' is a little sketchy-sounding, and I don't want people acting in any way greater in self-defence than the threat threatens to do. Otherwise, you have my full support for this essential bill.
Last edited by Fulflood on Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I go under the name Vyvland now (IIWiki page). This account is used for the odd foray into the Senate or NSG.
Straight male British apatheist pacifist environmentalist social liberal

Admin, New Democrat member for Lüborg (504) and ambassador to the Red-Greens in the Aurentine Senate. Minister of Business Safety of Aurentina. Apparently that deserves a ministry, but I'm not complaining. I'm probably none of these things anymore. | The Aurentine Phrasebook, my magnum opus.

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Urumgard
Diplomat
 
Posts: 600
Founded: Jan 09, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Urumgard » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:59 pm

Great Nepal wrote:Since Bodily Sovereignty Act reached enough support in coffee shop, I would like to submit this to be put in queue for debate in the floor.
Bodily Sovereignty Act
Urgency: Urgent| Drafted by: Great Nepal


This senate recognises self ownership and sovereignty of the individual as one of fundamental and inalienable rights held equally by all non-convicted men, women and children. Upholding principles held by philosophers William Rees-Mogg and James Dale Davidson, this senate enacts bodily sovereignty act (henceforth referred to as the act). For purposes of this act and future proposals following definitions have been utilized,
Person shall be defined as "a human being regarded as an individual".
Indivudal shall be defined as "a single human being as distinct from a group".
Human being shall be defined as "a man, woman, third gender or child of the species Homo sapiens, distinguished from other animals by superior mental development, power of articulate speech, and upright stance".
Child shall be defined as "a young human being from age of zero to legal age of majority which shall be defined by latter legislation".
Man shall be defined as "adult human with biological gender as male".
Woman shall be defined for this act as "adult human with biological gender as female".

By the powers vested in it, by the people and constitution, this senate hereby grants every non-convicted indivudal with sound mind, certain inalienable rights, unless their action are deemed hazardous to non-consenting indivudal or they are deemed to not be of sound mind by professional examining body. These rights shall fall under umbrella term of "bodily sovereignty rights". These rights are as follows:-
  • Self defence: If an indivudal is threatened with injury to their life or limb, or loss of bodily materials by actions of third party which may or may not be an indivudal, they shall be able to engage in self defence to neutralise the said threat by using all necessary force.
  • Reproductive rights: An indivudal will have final authority regarding their reproductive organs, sexual actions and reproduction provided, all indivudal involved in said act have provided informed consent to said act.
  • End of life: An indivudal shall have final authority regarding their end of life decisions and shall be able to end their own lives without fear of legal consequences. This senate shall make no laws that may criminalise suicide of any kind unless it causes direct harm to indivudal who has not provided informed consent.
  • Consumption: Indivudal shall have final authority on what they input into their bodies unless it is required as material evidence in a court of law. It must be made clear that this does not apply to recreational drugs, which shall be handled by future legislation in this senate.
  • Medical treatment: Indivudal shall be able to refuse medical treatment should they see fit unless it is required as material evidence in court of law. Refusal to accept medical treatment however shall be a valid reason to quarantine an indivudal, if it is professional opinion that disease they carry is highly contagious and hazardous to public.

Apart from your repeated misspelling of "individual", I take issue with the section I have highlighted in red. Superior mental development, power of articulate speech and upright stance seems to me to exclude the mentally impaired, mute and disabled from the definition of human. I would also like a clarification of whether "neutralise the said threat" implies the right to kill in self defence, which links into your statement of "necessary force". A clearer explanation of what is meant by "necessary force", I feel, is in order.

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Wolfmanne
Senator
 
Posts: 4418
Founded: Mar 16, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Wolfmanne » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:01 pm

Great Nepal wrote:Since Bodily Sovereignty Act reached enough support in coffee shop, I would like to submit this to be put in queue for debate in the floor.
Bodily Sovereignty Act
Urgency: Urgent| Drafted by: Great Nepal


This senate recognises self ownership and sovereignty of the individual as one of fundamental and inalienable rights held equally by all non-convicted men, women and children. Upholding principles held by philosophers William Rees-Mogg and James Dale Davidson, this senate enacts bodily sovereignty act (henceforth referred to as the act). For purposes of this act and future proposals following definitions have been utilized,
Person shall be defined as "a human being regarded as an individual".
Indivudal shall be defined as "a single human being as distinct from a group".
Human being shall be defined as "a man, woman, third gender or child of the species Homo sapiens, distinguished from other animals by superior mental development, power of articulate speech, and upright stance".
Child shall be defined as "a young human being from age of zero to legal age of majority which shall be defined by latter legislation".
Man shall be defined as "adult human with biological gender as male".
Woman shall be defined for this act as "adult human with biological gender as female".

By the powers vested in it, by the people and constitution, this senate hereby grants every non-convicted indivudal with sound mind, certain inalienable rights, unless their action are deemed hazardous to non-consenting indivudal or they are deemed to not be of sound mind by professional examining body. These rights shall fall under umbrella term of "bodily sovereignty rights". These rights are as follows:-
  • Self defence: If an indivudal is threatened with injury to their life or limb, or loss of bodily materials by actions of third party which may or may not be an indivudal, they shall be able to engage in self defence to neutralise the said threat by using all necessary force.
  • Reproductive rights: An indivudal will have final authority regarding their reproductive organs, sexual actions and reproduction provided, all indivudal involved in said act have provided informed consent to said act.
  • End of life: An indivudal shall have final authority regarding their end of life decisions and shall be able to end their own lives without fear of legal consequences. This senate shall make no laws that may criminalise suicide of any kind unless it causes direct harm to indivudal who has not provided informed consent.
  • Consumption: Indivudal shall have final authority on what they input into their bodies unless it is required as material evidence in a court of law. It must be made clear that this does not apply to recreational drugs, which shall be handled by future legislation in this senate.
  • Medical treatment: Indivudal shall be able to refuse medical treatment should they see fit unless it is required as material evidence in court of law. Refusal to accept medical treatment however shall be a valid reason to quarantine an indivudal, if it is professional opinion that disease they carry is highly contagious and hazardous to public.

For now, I abstain from this bill, as this conflicts on my morality. On one hand my Catholic faith tells me to oppose it, but then I also feel like I should support it. I also think that the word 'necessary force' should be changed to 'required force', to make self defense easier. I will contribute to the debate process but I will abstain from voting unless my party mandates me to.
Last edited by Wolfmanne on Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Finium
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Founded: Nov 17, 2010
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Postby Finium » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:15 pm

Nationalist State of Knox wrote:So, has the voting begun?

I believe it will shortly. To be polite most bodies will allow each sponsor a closing statement on his or her bill before voting.
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Old Tyrannia
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Founded: Aug 11, 2009
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Postby Old Tyrannia » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:16 pm

I request that the Senate refrains from debating a bill that is currently in queue. The Senate's full attention should be focused on the issue currently being debated.
"Classicist in literature, royalist in politics, and Anglo-Catholic in religion" (T.S. Eliot). Still, unaccountably, a NationStates Moderator.
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Trotskylvania
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Ex-Nation

Postby Trotskylvania » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:28 pm

Old Tyrannia wrote:I request that the Senate refrains from debating a bill that is currently in queue. The Senate's full attention should be focused on the issue currently being debated.

We haven't heard any statements on the matter of monarchy or republic for sometime now. Are we ready to close debate and move to a vote?
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Regnum Dominae
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Posts: 12345
Founded: Feb 13, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Regnum Dominae » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:29 pm

Trotskylvania wrote:
Old Tyrannia wrote:I request that the Senate refrains from debating a bill that is currently in queue. The Senate's full attention should be focused on the issue currently being debated.

We haven't heard any statements on the matter of monarchy or republic for sometime now. Are we ready to close debate and move to a vote?

I move to close debate and begin voting on the question of republic versus monarchy.
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Old Tyrannia
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Founded: Aug 11, 2009
Father Knows Best State

Postby Old Tyrannia » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:30 pm

Trotskylvania wrote:
Old Tyrannia wrote:I request that the Senate refrains from debating a bill that is currently in queue. The Senate's full attention should be focused on the issue currently being debated.

We haven't heard any statements on the matter of monarchy or republic for sometime now. Are we ready to close debate and move to a vote?

I'm awaiting a response to this statement.
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Agritum
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Founded: May 09, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Agritum » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:32 pm

Regnum Dominae wrote:
Trotskylvania wrote:We haven't heard any statements on the matter of monarchy or republic for sometime now. Are we ready to close debate and move to a vote?

I move to close debate and begin voting on the question of republic versus monarchy.

Seconded.

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Gordano and Lysandus
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Founded: Sep 24, 2012
New York Times Democracy

Postby Gordano and Lysandus » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:33 pm

I think we need to properly debate the bill before going to vote - we've not held the proper chamber vote with relative alterations and we need to ensure we have reviewed all amendments before going to vote.
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Finium
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Finium » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:34 pm

Agritum wrote:
Regnum Dominae wrote:I move to close debate and begin voting on the question of republic versus monarchy.

Seconded.

There is still an amendment on the floor
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Wolfmanne
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Founded: Mar 16, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Wolfmanne » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:38 pm

Trotskylvania wrote:Having been fifthed, I bring an alternative executive bill, the Republican Executive Act, to the queue
Trotskylvania wrote:
Republican Executive Act
Strength: Strong | Drafted by: Trotskylvania, Wolfmanne


Resolved: Since there is no tradition of monarchy here in our nation, it is pointless to establish one. Rather, we would consider it much more fruitful to establish the NSG State as a pluralist, democratic republic, and to that end we proposes establishing an executive that shall take into account the necessity of coalition building.

Be it enacted by the Senate of NSG, a constitutional bill to establish the executive offices of state:

I. The executive power of the NSG state shall be vested in a President and a Council of Ministers
- A. The President shall be the Head of State, elected by the Senate in a two-round system, in which the top two candidates from the first round shall be voted one.
- B. The President shall serve a term of two months, renewable once.
- C. The President may be removed by the Senate for official misconduct or disability by a vote of 2/3rds of the Senate.
- D. Upon the death of the President, the Senate shall elect a new president to a new 2 month term.
- E. The President shall have the following powers:
- - 1. Remand/veto a bill to the Senate if it's unconstitutional and call for revisions (may only do this once), with a full explanation.
- - 2. Declaring a state of war, if in full agreement with the Senate.
- - 3. Making and receiving state visits, on behalf of the Prime Minister.
- - 4. Ratification of international treaties, upon approval of the Senate.
- - 5. He must formally recognise the Prime Minister and his Cabinet, as elected by the Senate.
- - 6. Act as Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces and exercises his role by order of the Senate.

II. The Council of Ministers shall consist of a Prime Minister, and Ministers of the various executive departments.
- A. The Prime Minister shall be appointed by the President upon election by the Senate, and shall hold office with the confidence of the Senate.
- B. The Prime Minister shall appoint all other Ministers with the confidence of parliament, and shall have the power to dismiss them.
- C. The Prime Minister shall be head of government

III. Any person serving as a Senator shall be eligible to hold executive office.
- A. Ministers shall old office for a term not exceeding one month. One month after the previous election, the Senate shall hold elections for the members of the Council of Ministers, but neither sitting Ministers nor previous Ministers shall be barred from election.
- B. The President and executive Ministers shall maintain their privileges as Senators while holding office.

IV. The Council of Ministers shall enforce the laws ratified by the Senate.
- A. Ministers shall hold executive powers according to their portfolio as established by law.

V. If at any time the Council of Ministers loses the confidence of the Senate, they must resign immediately, holding office only until new executive officers can be elected.

This is a good bill, but I do have a bone to pick. I think the 'Council of Ministers' should be remained to the 'Cabinet'. Council of Ministers implies that it is more legislative, rather than a group of Senators who have a mandate over their relevant office. Not to sound anti-communist, especially with talk of a right-wing coalition against communism, but 'Council of Ministers' sounds very... communist. It seems like an anglicanised way of saying 'politburo'. I'd also like the emphasise this: the President's role is to keep the Prime Minister and the Senate in constitutional check. He is essentially powerless. Also, I think we should also officially have a Vice President that takes over the President's role in the event he's unable to actively participate. We should also act a clause for a Speaker of the Senate; he would take over from the Vice President if he was inactive. Here are my suggestions for the Bill (note: I also added the co-sponsors of the Bill).

Republican Executive Act
Strength: Strong | Drafted by: Trotskylvania, Wolfmanne


Resolved: Since there is no tradition of monarchy here in our nation, it is pointless to establish one. Rather, we would consider it much more fruitful to establish the NSG State as a pluralist, democratic republic, and to that end we proposes establishing an executive that shall take into account the necessity of coalition building.

Be it enacted by the Senate of NSG, a constitutional bill to establish the executive offices of state:

I. The executive power of the NSG state shall be vested in a President and a Prime Minister
- A. The President shall be the Head of State, elected by the Senate in a two-round system, in which the top two candidates from the first round shall compete in the second round for Presidency.
- B. The President shall serve a term of two months, renewable once.
- C. The President may be removed by the Senate for official misconduct or disability by a vote of 2/3rds of the Senate.
- D. Upon the death of the President, the Senate shall elect a new president to a new 2 month term.
- E. The President shall have the following powers:
- - 1. Remand/veto a bill to the Senate if it's unconstitutional and call for revisions (may only do this once), with a full explanation.
- - 2. Declaring a state of war, if in full agreement with the Senate.
- - 3. Making and receiving state visits, on behalf of the Prime Minister.
- - 4. Ratification of international treaties, upon approval of the Senate.
- - 5. He must formally recognise the Prime Minister and his Cabinet, as elected by the Senate.
- - 6. Act as Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces and exercises his role by order of the Senate.
- F. The President is to appoint a Vice President, who is to take over the role of President in periods in which the President is unavailable.
- - 1. Upon the election of the President, the Senate has the right to veto the President's choice of Vice President.
- - 2. The Vice President may only assume his role if the President is unavailable or is inactive.
- - 3. The Vice President is to ascend to the role of President if the President is inactive for a long period of time.

II. The Prime Minister
- A. The Prime Minister shall be appointed by the President upon election by the Senate, and shall hold office with the confidence of the Senate.
- B. The Prime Minister shall appoint Ministers to his Cabinet, and shall have the power to dismiss them.
- C. The Prime Minister shall be Head of Government.

III. Any person serving as a Senator shall be eligible to hold executive office.
- A. A Prime Minister shall hold office for a term not exceeding one month. One month after the previous election, the Senate shall hold elections for Premiership.
- B. Executive officeholders shall maintain their privileges as Senators while holding office.

IV. The Cabinet shall enforce the laws ratified by the Senate.
- A. Ministers shall hold executive powers according to their portfolio as established by law.

V. If at any time the Prime Minister loses the confidence of the Senate, the Prime Minister and his Cabinet must resign immediately, holding office only until new executive officers can be elected.


I'm personally think that the President should appoint a Speaker that must be approved by the Senate. The Vice President could have that role, like in the United States, he could be a Minister in the Prime Minister's government (I'd personally oppose this as it's the President's role to keep the government in check, whilst the Prime Minister is... the government). Or we could have a totally separate Speaker of the Senate who is third in line to the Presidency, but I think this is just bureaucratic and the Vice President can just do this.
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