Men need to be trained to not rape.

[Condunum]

Rape is unwanted sexual intercourse of some kind. It doesn't need a legal definition.

Murder is premeditated killing that isn't done in self-defence, due to an accident or voluntary euthanasia (where it is legal) etc. It doesn't need legal definition either.

See how easy that was.

Nope. The concept of murder was created by the law. The concept of rape is a very, very societal thing, and there's evidence that it's at least on some level a base psychological concept.

Dodging the question I see.

How did i dodge the question. I just replied that not only coerced consent is subjective in nature.

I asked you what you think coerced concent is. Not sure how you could have thought I was asking something else.

[Aghny]

Murder is premeditated killing that isn't done in self-defence, due to an accident or voluntary euthanasia (where it is legal) etc. It doesn't need legal definition either.

See how easy that was.

Nope. The concept of murder was created by the law. The concept of rape is a very, very societal thing, and there's evidence that it's at least on some level a base psychological concept.

Any evidence to prove that ?

How did i dodge the question. I just replied that not only coerced consent is subjective in nature.

I asked you what you think coerced concent is. Not sure how you could have thought I was asking something else.

I was responding to the first part of that sentence upon which you based the rest of it.

As for coerced consent, i see it as by using physical force in such a way that the victim can't resist or get away for eg.

There is the subject of blackmail and all that, but if you decide to get raped instead of contacting the authorities for example, that is your fault too and i see that as blackmail.

[Lord Tothe]

Everybody needs to be trained to not rape. Rape is sex without consent. To extend the thought, people need to learn to learn to never interact with others without consent.

[The Blaatschapen]

Everybody needs to be trained to not rape. Rape is sex without consent. To extend the thought, people need to learn to learn to never interact with others without consent.

Wait. What?

I'll be sure to get your consent first, before telling you there's a fire. I like it written down in threefold.

[Aghny]

Everybody needs to be trained to not rape. Rape is sex without consent. To extend the thought, people need to learn to learn to never interact with others without consent.

Wait. What?

I'll be sure to get your consent first, before telling you there's a fire. I like it written down in threefold.

There needs to be a lawyer and witnesses too.

Also how do you speak to someone or interact to get their consent in the first place if you need their consent to do that

[Lord Tothe]

Everybody needs to be trained to not rape. Rape is sex without consent. To extend the thought, people need to learn to learn to never interact with others without consent.

Wait. What?

I'll be sure to get your consent first, before telling you there's a fire. I like it written down in threefold.

Tell you what, if you alert me to a danger and I get pissed off about it, I'll allow you to apologize and consider the matter settled. Deal? Communication without threats of harm hardly constitutes aggression.

[Condunum]

Nope. The concept of murder was created by the law. The concept of rape is a very, very societal thing, and there's evidence that it's at least on some level a base psychological concept.

Any evidence to prove that ?

I asked you what you think coerced concent is. Not sure how you could have thought I was asking something else.

I was responding to the first part of that sentence upon which you based the rest of it.

As for coerced consent, i see it as by using physical force in such a way that the victim can't resist or get away for eg.

There is the subject of blackmail and all that, but if you decide to get raped instead of contacting the authorities for example, that is your fault too and i see that as blackmail.

So its my fault I was raped. Kay. You know that coerced concent can be as simple as telling someone they need to fuck you or else they can't leave, or do anything, right?

[New England and The Maritimes]

For people who don't understand rape culture, who don't know what we mean when we say men are trained to see women as objects that they "deserve," author Lula Lisbon shares an experience she had, which plenty of women can probably attest to. It's not a one-off. You all probably have a friend or two who act like this to women and think they're justified. This isn't a one-off. Our society encourages men to treat women like dirt.

Why I am a feminist:

Here's a true story. Last night, i was hanging out at a pretty chill bar, having some beers and just having a nice time. Three guys and a girl come in and sit near me. One guy comes over to me and starts talking to me. I know where this is going, believe me.

"Who are you here with?"
"Myself."
"Ohh!" he grinned smugly and reached a friendly arm around my shoulders. He continued to have a distinct lack of regard for personal space during this entire encounter. I pulled away, and kept having to again and again as he pressed his body "casually" against my side.
I had been talking about how I'm moving to a different part of the city, and he started saying, don't move, I'll cry, we should hang out, we should get married, hahaha. I said no, I don't think my girlfriend would like that.
He stared at me in disbelief.
"I'm gay."
"Are you really?" he seemed dubious. You know, just because I don't fit whatever the damn stereotype of a lesbian is, doesn't mean this shit doesn't piss me off after a while. But I was amiable enough still, even at that point.
"Yes, really."
Then came the questions, the utterly unoriginal and predictable questions... "Hypothetically, if you were straight, would you find me attractive?"
"Hypothetically, if you were gay, would you find your friend attractive?"
He guffawed and made a joke of it. I settled for telling him there is no hypothetical, because I'm not straight. He was good looking enough for sure, but he was also smugly self-assure and that is SO unattractive in anyone, regardless of sex.
"How do you know you're gay? Are you sure?"
"How do you know you're straight?" I retorted. Another offhand joke.
"So you've never dated a guy?" I didn't find this worthy of answering.
I shot him down, again and again, but apparently, the fact that "you're so pretty" was a valid excuse to ignore my increasingly not-so-subtle hints to go away.
"So can you give me tips on how to make girls like me?" I wasn't sure whether this was some kind of facetious reverse psychology, though now, looking back, I really don't think he was clever enough for that. I just sort of rolled my eyes in answer.
There were plenty more questions, liberally interspersed with complaints that I was mean and that I should be nicer to him. I pointed out drily that no one forced him to come over to me, and that despite my meanness he is still glued to my side. He was annoying, but tolerable. Until!
"Have you ever kissed a guy?"
I didn't answer. It's none of his business. (Yes, but I'm not about to encourage him. I know more than well enough from experience.)
"So," he pushed, "would you like to try?"
I'd had enough.
"You're disgusting and rude. Get the fuck away from me."
He tries to play it off as a joke, then seeing that I wasn't having it, then turned to his friend and started calling me a "feminist" in a decidedly mocking tone. I tartly informed them that "feminist is not a pejorative, and neither is gay, for that matter."
Blank stares. They didn't know what "pejorative" means -- big surprise -- and I have to explain. ...yeah.
Then another guy in his group started ganging up on me, saying condescending things, and I was really starting to get mad. Meanwhile, Douchebag #1 was making little comments about what an asshole I am, and that I didn't need to be mean to him and his friends. The kicker is when he called me "this feminist idiot."
REALLY??
"Get the fuck away from me before I punch you."
"I'll call the cops on you if you touch me."
"Oh, so a big man like you can't handle a little 'feminist idiot' like me?"
He kept making little comments to his friends, just loud enough for me to hear. It's clearly a case of sour grapes.
"No wonder straight girls don't like you. It's because you're an insufferable douchebag."
"Oh I can get all the girls I want, it's easy."
"Really? Go bother one of them then and leave me the fuck alone. You're disgusting."
He got all huffy. "Me, disgusting? You're disgusting." This from the charmer who was trying to make out with me ten minutes before.
I was pissed. I turned to the bartender.
"Get these fucking misogynist assholes away from me, please." Thankfully, he had my back and told them to get out. Douchebag numbers 1 and 2 went outside, but their friend came up to me trying to defend his friends.
"They're not usually like that, they're just drunk, you don't have to be mean." I was pretty pissed at this point and I really had no patience for him and his lame apologies for his disgusting friends. He wouldn't leave me alone, though, and bugged me for several minutes until I deigned to placate him with an offhand comment. Still, he kept at it until I flat out told him to go away and leave me alone.

There are more details I left out, and choice epithets I was called, but I don't really feel like typing out the whole play by play. Needless to say, this is probably the worst treatment I've had as a gay woman in a long time. After they left I broke down crying. The bartender was very apologetic, saying nothing like that has happened there before, and those particular people are regulars. Ironically, the owner is a gay man and he's never had any trouble with them. Bitterly, I pointed out that the owner is not an attractive woman whom frat boys would just love to talk into bed in order to show her what a "real man" is.

He walked me out, effusively apologizing. I biked home, fighting back tears. It was a long time before I could get to sleep, playing it back in my mind, seething with rage. It made my stomach turn.

If there is any question in your mind that we are living in a rape culture, a culture in which young men think they can say and do anything to a woman in pursuit of sex, just because he finds her attractive, regardless of whether or not she is interested, and feels justified in hurling verbal (or physical, or sexual) abuse at her when rebuffed simply because his pride and ego has been hurt, think again.

I am thoroughly disgusted.

[Nailed to the Perch]

Alright, a present example. If I ask her: "Hey, wanna do it?" and she answers "Hell yeah" - I'm in the clear and what follows cannot be rape, right?

No. If she continues to express the concept "hell yeah" in some form, then sure, but people who say "hell yeah" once have not consented in perpetuity to anything and everything you might do to them. Someone can say "hell yeah" and then say "actually, nevermind" three minutes later, at which point you have to stop. Consent isn't a one-time deal - it's an ongoing process.

And, again, it's really not hard. I have never been even faintly worried about raping a partner, because if ever someone I was with stopped actively participating in the sex we were having, I would immediately stop and say, "Hey, everything all right?" because I actually like my partner and want him to enjoy himself! As long as he's pulling me close, moaning in my ear, and saying things like, "goddamn, that feels amazing, don't stop," I'm pretty confident he's consenting!

[Nailed to the Perch]

There is the subject of blackmail and all that, but if you decide to get raped instead of contacting the authorities for example, that is your fault too and i see that as blackmail.

if you decide to get raped...that is your fault

Well, fuck.

Remember kids, we're not living in a rape culture, and no one needs to be educated about rape!

[Cannot think of a name]

As long as he's pulling me close, moaning in my ear, and saying things like, "goddamn, that feels amazing, don't stop," I'm pretty confident he's consenting!

Or the cat is sniffing his butt and he has odd tastes and focus issues...

unrelated: I [¡]just[/I] got your name...

[Cannot think of a name]

There is the subject of blackmail and all that, but if you decide to get raped instead of contacting the authorities for example, that is your fault too and i see that as blackmail.

if you decide to get raped...that is your fault

Well, fuck.

Remember kids, we're not living in a rape culture, and no one needs to be educated about rape!

And it's an insult to suggest otherwise. Clearly.

[The Rich Port]

As long as he's pulling me close, moaning in my ear, and saying things like, "goddamn, that feels amazing, don't stop," I'm pretty confident he's consenting!

Or the cat is sniffing his butt and he has odd tastes and focus issues...

unrelated: I [¡]just[/I] got your name...

That's OK.

I still don't get it, if that makes you feel better.

[Individuality-ness]

There is the subject of blackmail and all that, but if you decide to get raped instead of contacting the authorities for example, that is your fault too and i see that as blackmail.

if you decide to get raped...that is your fault

Well, fuck.

Remember kids, we're not living in a rape culture, and no one needs to be educated about rape!

We're just being silly feminazis of course!

[Saiwania]

Here's a true story...

That was terrible how they behaved towards her.
Here is how I think I would handle that conversation, would there be anything wrong with my approach?

Me: "Hi there, are you with anyone?"
Her: "No, just myself."
Me: "So, are you single?
Her: "No, I have a girlfriend."
Me: *keeps his distance* "So, you must not be into guys?"
Her: "Nope."
Me: "Oh, I apologize if I'm bothering you in any way."
Me: "Would you like to talk about some things or want me to go away?"
Her: (Decides if the conversation continues)*
Me: "Well, it's been interesting. Goodbye and have a good night."

[Nailed to the Perch]

As long as he's pulling me close, moaning in my ear, and saying things like, "goddamn, that feels amazing, don't stop," I'm pretty confident he's consenting!

Or the cat is sniffing his butt and he has odd tastes and focus issues...

unrelated: I [¡]just[/I] got your name...

True story: one of the worst/best (depending how you look at it) sexual experiences I ever had occurred when the boyfriend's cat utterly refused to leave us alone. We kept tossing him out of bed, starting to get back into the groove, and then all the sudden there would be a cat on top of us going HELLO I'M A KITTY! HELLO! PAY ATTENTION TO ME! I'M A KITTY! After several minutes of this happening over and over we ended up just lying in bed snuggling and quite literally crying with laughter. We can still crack each other up by just saying, "HELLO! I'M BACK!" in the voice we pretend his cat talks in.

(I tell this story both because I think it's funny, and because it's another good example of the sort of sex I'm pretty sure most of the people in this thread whining about how consent is haaaaaaaaard have apparently never had. Much like if your partner is saying "oh god, that's awesome, don't stop," if your partner is laughing and hugging you and sharing jokes with you, it is pretty easy to tell that you're not raping them! Seriously, the entire trick to not raping people is "have sexual encounters that are actually enjoyable with people who are clearly actually enjoying them." This does not seem like an undue burden to me. I am baffled as to why it appears so difficult to so many people.)

Also, squawk. Ex-parrot in the house. (I find it fun to see when/if people recognize me and get the reference. )

[New England and The Maritimes]

Here's a true story...

That was terrible how they behaved towards her.
Here is how I think I would handle that conversation, would there be anything wrong with my approach?

Me: "Hi there, are you with anyone?"
Her: "No, just myself."
Me: "So, are you single?
Her: "No, I have a girlfriend."
Me: *keeps his distance* "So, you must not be into guys?"
Her: "Nope."
Me: "Oh, I apologize if I'm bothering you in any way."
Me: "Would you like to talk about some things or want me to go away?"
Her: (Decides if the conversation continues)*
Me: "Well, it's been interesting. Goodbye and have a good night."

Congratulations, you spent a night not sexually harassing or assaulting anyone.

[Choronzon]

Since getting consent seems to be a really hard and really scary thing for some of you folks, I made you this nice little form to have your partners fill out. Don’t say I never did anything for you.

I, __________, do hereby give full consent to sexual relations with ________________.

I consent to penetration in the following orifices:
[ ] Vagina
[ ] Mouth
[ ] Anus

I consent to the following sexual positions:
[ ] Missionary
[ ] Cowgirl
[ ] Reverse Cowgirl
[ ] Doggystyle
[ ] 69
[ ] Pegging
[ ] Any Position Listed in the Kama Sutra

Do you like to be tied up?
[ ] Yes
[ ] No



Do you enjoy being hit?
[ ] Yes
[ ] No

I. ___________, verify that I do indeed consent to the above activities and positions.

I, __________, verify that I have read and understand the above. I recognize that I my partner may withdraw consent at any time.

Signed
Partner One _____________________, Date _______________
Partner Two _____________________, Date _______________

__________________________
Notary Public Affix Seal Here

And I'm a notary, so just send me that with two forms of ID and I'll stamp it for you.


Also, I'm a bit drunk after a long day and have never written a contract before in my life so Neo Art needs to stay the hell out of this thread lest he lawyers all over my good time.

[Nadkor]

In the sense that you're fucking someone without their consent?

Yeah, I totally see what you mean. That's completely different to fucking someone without their consent.

I meant as in i see rape as physically subjugating someone and then forcibly having sex with them.
Everything else depends on alot of factors that i won't classify them without the full story.

No.

Rape is about consent.

Fucking someone without their consent, regardless of force, is rape.

It's as simple as that.

The fact that you don't know this (regardless of whatever nonsense you declare to 'understand') sits nicely with all the other guys (who you decided don't exist) that don't understand rape or consent.

You are the reason Ms Maxwell is correct. You are the reason why people need to be taught about rape and consent.

You need to be taught about rape and consent.

[Choronzon]

I meant as in i see rape as physically subjugating someone and then forcibly having sex with them.
Everything else depends on alot of factors that i won't classify them without the full story.

No.

Rape is about consent.

Fucking someone without their consent, regardless of force, is rape.

It's as simple as that.

The fact that you don't know this (regardless of whatever nonsense you declare to 'understand') sits nicely with all the other guys (who you decided don't exist) that don't understand rape or consent.

You are the reason Ms Maxwell is correct. You are the reason why people need to be taught about rape and consent.

You need to be taught about rape and consent.

Isn't it funny that all the people insulted by this are the people who really do in fact need to be taught about rape and consent?

[Individuality-ness]

Since getting consent seems to be a really hard and really scary thing for some of you folks, I made you this nice little form to have your partners fill out. Don’t say I never did anything for you.

I, __________, do hereby give full consent to sexual relations with ________________.

I consent to penetration in the following orifices:
[ ] Vagina
[ ] Mouth
[ ] Anus

I consent to the following sexual positions:
[ ] Missionary
[ ] Cowgirl
[ ] Reverse Cowgirl
[ ] Doggystyle
[ ] 69
[ ] Pegging
[ ] Any Position Listed in the Kama Sutra

Do you like to be tied up?
[ ] Yes
[ ] No



Do you enjoy being hit?
[ ] Yes
[ ] No

I. ___________, verify that I do indeed consent to the above activities and positions.

I, __________, verify that I have read and understand the above. I recognize that I my partner may withdraw consent at any time.

Signed
Partner One _____________________, Date _______________
Partner Two _____________________, Date _______________

__________________________
Notary Public Affix Seal Here

And I'm a notary, so just send me that with two forms of ID and I'll stamp it for you.


Also, I'm a bit drunk after a long day and have never written a contract before in my life so Neo Art needs to stay the hell out of this thread lest he lawyers all over my good time.

You need to mention that it's good for one use only. So you need to fill out this form every single time.

Also, you can have sex with more than one person. So multiple parties.

[Nadkor]

Nope. The concept of murder was created by the law. The concept of rape is a very, very societal thing

You have got to be fucking kidding me.

[Individuality-ness]

No.

Rape is about consent.

Fucking someone without their consent, regardless of force, is rape.

It's as simple as that.

The fact that you don't know this (regardless of whatever nonsense you declare to 'understand') sits nicely with all the other guys (who you decided don't exist) that don't understand rape or consent.

You are the reason Ms Maxwell is correct. You are the reason why people need to be taught about rape and consent.

You need to be taught about rape and consent.

Isn't it funny that all the people insulted by this are the people who really do in fact need to be taught about rape and consent?

You'd think, but it's really very sad.

[Nadkor]

if you decide to get raped

Jesus fuck.

Be ashamed of yourself.

Be fucking ashamed of yourself.

[United Dependencies]

Isn't it funny that all the people insulted by this are the people who really do in fact need to be taught about rape and consent?

Maybe when this thread started it was.

Now? It just makes me tired of people.