NS History: You've Got Questions, We've Got Answers!

[Unibot III]

Does anyone recognize the following acronyms: IAN , WAR and LRA?

The first two are raider organizations during 2004, being represented by General Powell at the 2004 NationStates Global Summit on Raiderplay and Defensive Operations.

[Blackbird]

Does anyone recognize the following acronyms: IAN , WAR and LRA?

The first two are raider organizations during 2004, being represented by General Powell at the 2004 NationStates Global Summit on Raiderplay and Defensive Operations.

LRA sounds familiar, but I don't know why. Sadly, if I still had the RLA forums, I could look this up.

[The Bruce]

I've read similar history, but how he's explained it is more interesting (I didn't realize he was rebuked out of the Solarius Senate). Particularly, because I see DEN as an important blip on the trajectory of invaders from "social outcasts" to "political insiders". Powell was more articulate than a lot of the invaders of the day and thus had some political capital, especially since he started in the defender world and then was kicked out -- I think he contributed to a large change to NationStates from the outside-inward to the political centre.

You'll have to define the term "political insiders." Different invader groups have had different levels of interaction, beyond just invading, with the NS World, since there have been invaders. They might not have participated in all the right cliques, but they were active. I think if you looked under the hood of NationStates you'd be surprised just how much they've participated as political insiders, from the beginning of 2003.

The Driftwood Gang were influential in almost all of the British Colonial themed regions and maintained a hold on the United States for years. Ireland certainly left their mark, both as invaders, their war with British themed regions, and their attempts at creating a Pan-Irish Empire of regions. The Atlantic Alliance only wanted to take over the entire world and were often more comfortable using diplomatic bullying than actual invading. One Big Island have been active in diplomacy for many years. The Farkers ran the East Pacific, were very active on the NS Forums, and after tormenting the Heartland some became very active members of their regional community, extending to activity in the Triumvirate (Wysteria, Texas, the Heartland). There's certainly also been a lot of invaders that became very involved in feeder politics after retiring as invaders (Todd Mc Cloud among the more notable examples) and Mikeswill (NationStates region) has certainly been active politically over the years.

The reason why General Powell (DEN) stood out so much during their prime was that when the new anti-griefing rules of the day (where strict percentages of how many nations you could banject as a delegate were enforced) were introduced, the invader game lost a lot of interest from the other players. By the time the new "happy time" started for invaders (not a happy time for founderless victim regions), DEN was practically in a coma. The defenders who had previously led the charge against them were also largely in decline. The invaders quickly came out of the wood work, with the emergence of the regional influence rules. The defenders were much slower to recover and when they did, it was with fragmented efforts, without the collaboration of the opposition's invader unity.

[The Bruce]

Doesn't IAN stand for Invader Alliance Network? I think that's right. There really should be a master list of all these acronym somewhere. It can be more than a bit confusing to keep track of them all.

[Blackbird]

About the Atlantic Alliance: I think it's really important to talk about just how influential they were in moving over to a vast number of other institutions. Firstly, most of the earliest leadership was ensconsed in the Meritocracy (Thomasia, Halmont, etc.). So even though the New Meritocracy was "anti-UN" it had this wing of Senators who created and ran one of the most feared invader forces ever. Similarly, a great deal of its latter leadership (New People) became extremely prominent in the New Pacific Order.

[Unibot III]

Similarly, a great deal of its latter leadership (New People) became extremely prominent in the New Pacific Order.

New People/Mammoth seems to have been everywhere. He got around. I see traces of him in just about every invader forum through 2004-05.

[Punk Reloaded]

Similarly, a great deal of its latter leadership (New People) became extremely prominent in the New Pacific Order.

New People/Mammoth seems to have been everywhere. He got around. I see traces of him in just about every invader forum through 2004-05.

my favorite person to play with...miss that guy.

[Blackbird]

New People/Mammoth seems to have been everywhere. He got around. I see traces of him in just about every invader forum through 2004-05.

my favorite person to play with...miss that guy.

Yeah. He was a good guy. Novus Homines in the Meritocracy.

[The Bruce]

my favorite person to play with...miss that guy.

Yeah. He was a good guy. Novus Homines in the Meritocracy.

I traded the odd telegram with Mammothistan over the years. He was a class act. I felt honoured when he chose to spend his last days in Wysteria.

[Unibot III]

I've read similar history, but how he's explained it is more interesting (I didn't realize he was rebuked out of the Solarius Senate). Particularly, because I see DEN as an important blip on the trajectory of invaders from "social outcasts" to "political insiders". Powell was more articulate than a lot of the invaders of the day and thus had some political capital, especially since he started in the defender world and then was kicked out -- I think he contributed to a large change to NationStates from the outside-inward to the political centre.

You'll have to define the term "political insiders." Different invader groups have had different levels of interaction, beyond just invading, with the NS World, since there have been invaders. They might not have participated in all the right cliques, but they were active. I think if you looked under the hood of NationStates you'd be surprised just how much they've participated as political insiders, from the beginning of 2003.

The Driftwood Gang were influential in almost all of the British Colonial themed regions and maintained a hold on the United States for years. Ireland certainly left their mark, both as invaders, their war with British themed regions, and their attempts at creating a Pan-Irish Empire of regions. The Atlantic Alliance only wanted to take over the entire world and were often more comfortable using diplomatic bullying than actual invading. One Big Island have been active in diplomacy for many years. The Farkers ran the East Pacific, were very active on the NS Forums, and after tormenting the Heartland some became very active members of their regional community, extending to activity in the Triumvirate (Wysteria, Texas, the Heartland). There's certainly also been a lot of invaders that became very involved in feeder politics after retiring as invaders (Todd Mc Cloud among the more notable examples) and Mikeswill (NationStates region) has certainly been active politically over the years.

The reason why General Powell (DEN) stood out so much during their prime was that when the new anti-griefing rules of the day (where strict percentages of how many nations you could banject as a delegate were enforced) were introduced, the invader game lost a lot of interest from the other players. By the time the new "happy time" started for invaders (not a happy time for founderless victim regions), DEN was practically in a coma. The defenders who had previously led the charge against them were also largely in decline. The invaders quickly came out of the wood work, with the emergence of the regional influence rules. The defenders were much slower to recover and when they did, it was with fragmented efforts, without the collaboration of the opposition's invader unity.

I'm going to be going over what I mean more in an upcoming essay, but I'll note that The East Pacific was a few months after DEN started up and gaining strength. Also I'm having my doubts whether 10ki ever had good relations with major defender organizations; if you look at those conference transcripts, you can see Exhibit A: Blackbird giving a TITO diplomat a peace of his mind right in front of Powell in pretty much the exact same fashion as contemporary defenders have complained to TITO. Some things don't change.

[Blackbird]

*chuckles* I remember that sniping. Odracir was a good guy. I wouldn't say that about every Councilor on their Council of Nine though. I always liked EU-Topia though.

[The Bruce]

You'll have to define the term "political insiders." Different invader groups have had different levels of interaction, beyond just invading, with the NS World, since there have been invaders. They might not have participated in all the right cliques, but they were active. I think if you looked under the hood of NationStates you'd be surprised just how much they've participated as political insiders, from the beginning of 2003.

The Driftwood Gang were influential in almost all of the British Colonial themed regions and maintained a hold on the United States for years. Ireland certainly left their mark, both as invaders, their war with British themed regions, and their attempts at creating a Pan-Irish Empire of regions. The Atlantic Alliance only wanted to take over the entire world and were often more comfortable using diplomatic bullying than actual invading. One Big Island have been active in diplomacy for many years. The Farkers ran the East Pacific, were very active on the NS Forums, and after tormenting the Heartland some became very active members of their regional community, extending to activity in the Triumvirate (Wysteria, Texas, the Heartland). There's certainly also been a lot of invaders that became very involved in feeder politics after retiring as invaders (Todd Mc Cloud among the more notable examples) and Mikeswill (NationStates region) has certainly been active politically over the years.

The reason why General Powell (DEN) stood out so much during their prime was that when the new anti-griefing rules of the day (where strict percentages of how many nations you could banject as a delegate were enforced) were introduced, the invader game lost a lot of interest from the other players. By the time the new "happy time" started for invaders (not a happy time for founderless victim regions), DEN was practically in a coma. The defenders who had previously led the charge against them were also largely in decline. The invaders quickly came out of the wood work, with the emergence of the regional influence rules. The defenders were much slower to recover and when they did, it was with fragmented efforts, without the collaboration of the opposition's invader unity.

I'm going to be going over what I mean more in an upcoming essay, but I'll note that The East Pacific was a few months after DEN started up and gaining strength. Also I'm having my doubts whether 10ki ever had good relations with major defender organizations; if you look at those conference transcripts, you can see Exhibit A: Blackbird giving a TITO diplomat a peace of his mind right in front of Powell in pretty much the exact same fashion as contemporary defenders have complained to TITO. Somethings don't change.

The East Pacific was created at the end of April or beginning of May, 2003. I'm pretty certain it predates DEN by quite a bit. I'd accept that there were players around at that time who might have eventually created DEN, but it seems way before DEN's time.

[Blackbird]

I'm going to be going over what I mean more in an upcoming essay, but I'll note that The East Pacific was a few months after DEN started up and gaining strength. Also I'm having my doubts whether 10ki ever had good relations with major defender organizations; if you look at those conference transcripts, you can see Exhibit A: Blackbird giving a TITO diplomat a peace of his mind right in front of Powell in pretty much the exact same fashion as contemporary defenders have complained to TITO. Somethings don't change.

The East Pacific was created at the end of April or beginning of May, 2003. I'm pretty certain it predates DEN by quite a bit. I'd accept that there were players around at that time who might have eventually created DEN, but it seems way before DEN's time.

Agreed. Perhaps you're confusing this was the claim of some of the old Fakers (notably Loop?) who claimed that they, or maybe the French Pirates created the East Pacific?

[Unibot III]

The East Pacific was created at the end of April or beginning of May, 2003. I'm pretty certain it predates DEN by quite a bit. I'd accept that there were players around at that time who might have eventually created DEN, but it seems way before DEN's time.

Agreed. Perhaps you're confusing this was the claim of some of the old Fakers (notably Loop?) who claimed that they, or maybe the French Pirates created the East Pacific?

Oh I'm sorry guys, got my years confused. Haha. 2003, not 2004. Alrighty.

I always liked EU-Topia though.

*sniggers*

[Todd McCloud]

The East Pacific was created at the end of April or beginning of May, 2003. I'm pretty certain it predates DEN by quite a bit. I'd accept that there were players around at that time who might have eventually created DEN, but it seems way before DEN's time.

Agreed. Perhaps you're confusing this was the claim of some of the old Fakers (notably Loop?) who claimed that they, or maybe the French Pirates created the East Pacific?

According to our NSwiki, The East Pacific was founded by the Atlantic Central Command (Atlantic Alliance), by a nation named Hitler the Great via the orders of Nussberg. It does elude to a group of "pirates" taking over temporarily, but history prior to Lotlanthanderamore serving as delegate is very sketchy.

[The Bruce]

Agreed. Perhaps you're confusing this was the claim of some of the old Fakers (notably Loop?) who claimed that they, or maybe the French Pirates created the East Pacific?

According to our NSwiki, The East Pacific was founded by the Atlantic Central Command (Atlantic Alliance), by a nation named Hitler the Great via the orders of Nussberg. It does elude to a group of "pirates" taking over temporarily, but history prior to Lotlanthanderamore serving as delegate is very sketchy.

That's because there really was no history, before it was seized in the first minutes of its creation. I was just monitoring the game feed when it happened and it happened very quickly. Invaders were in there to seize the place after the first few nations were spawned there. Unlike what happened with Balder and Osiris, there was no defender efforts to stop them.

First they banjected everyone from the region who dared apply for UN membership, who wasn't them, and later any UN nations not endorsing their lead. It probably confused a lot of new players. Infinite Loop booted way more nations than Francos Spain ever did, but flew under the radar because of the high profile conflict against Francos Spain.

[Unibot III]

The French Pirates have to be one of the more interesting groups I've read about. Just because they seemed to have their hands in so many major historical events in 2003. I mean, Mammothistan's comments about them were very intriguing..

"I think around this time the group (which never really had a name it gave itself, just 'the group' essentially) was hitting the big time with high-scale French and Pirate invasions.

Francos was part of the group. He wasn't known for it, like Ackbar or Juxtapositions or Architeuthis, but he was a brother. In summer 2004 Greater Farkistan held three Pacifics. That is something people don't know about.

I think 100 Nations of Conquest was one of those times they took over a place and assimilated it without anyone really knowing what had actually happened.

If you were around then you might remember the NS Associated Press thing, pre-NetWorkRadio, or maybe you saw the link in the 'The East Pacific' thread last week. Found this from them 7May2003:


"The United States of Fox News Network

O'Reilly Factor

OC/O'Reilly

Welcome to the Factor, this is a talking points memo.

Well ladies and gents, these clown pirates have done it again. Let's take a look at these marauders.

They are currently in possesion of France and America, Blarney Castle, just left Great Britain, had been in Ireland, 32 County Irish Republic, and many other regions.

Everywhere they have gone they have spread their misery. When will it end? Apparently these bloodthirsty fools will stop at nothing to achieve their sick aims.

We all owe a debt of gratitude to those who fight them, especially the Entente Cordiale who valiantly fought them in France. The fight was a good one, but the pirates won with superior numbers in the end. Thankfully, the Entente Cordiale grows stronger every day, and now Ireland is being considered for membership, with a possible admission of Great Britain in the near future.

Most regions are under lockdown now due to these pirates. This is not the way anyone wants to live their lives. The Factor calls on the pirates to do the right thing, and go back to where they came from.

And that's a Talking Points memo."

Ackbar, Juxtapositions, Architeuthis and Francos Spain? Hah. Kind of looks like one of their players still has control over "America". In the event that Franco's reign did just start out as an invasion like their other regions, this would make much more sense, I mean why else would a USSR roleplayer and a former Spain resident just plop in The Pacific and decide to coup one day, with the means to do so?

[Blackbird]

Something that always struck me as so sad about the original NationStates was the forums. For the really old players, and I'm talking maybe through mid-2003, the NS forums were really slow. Like agonizingly slow. No one ever went to the Big Boards, even major players, just because of how ludicrously frustrating it was to be there.

I think that's really sad now, because we never had a common community that a vibrant forums can bring. On the other hand, it forced this kind of strange balkinization where nearly all player-to-player interaction took place off-forums on regional and alliance forums. The bad taste that the "big boards" left in the mouths of the elder generation kept many of us off of it for years, even long after the speed problems had been dealt with.

[The Bruce]

The French Pirates have to be one of the more interesting groups I've read about. Just because they seemed to have their hands in so many major historical events in 2003. I mean, Mammothistan's comments about them were very intriguing..

"I think around this time the group (which never really had a name it gave itself, just 'the group' essentially) was hitting the big time with high-scale French and Pirate invasions.

Francos was part of the group. He wasn't known for it, like Ackbar or Juxtapositions or Architeuthis, but he was a brother. In summer 2004 Greater Farkistan held three Pacifics. That is something people don't know about.

I think 100 Nations of Conquest was one of those times they took over a place and assimilated it without anyone really knowing what had actually happened.

If you were around then you might remember the NS Associated Press thing, pre-NetWorkRadio, or maybe you saw the link in the 'The East Pacific' thread last week. Found this from them 7May2003:


"The United States of Fox News Network

O'Reilly Factor

OC/O'Reilly

Welcome to the Factor, this is a talking points memo.

Well ladies and gents, these clown pirates have done it again. Let's take a look at these marauders.

They are currently in possesion of France and America, Blarney Castle, just left Great Britain, had been in Ireland, 32 County Irish Republic, and many other regions.

Everywhere they have gone they have spread their misery. When will it end? Apparently these bloodthirsty fools will stop at nothing to achieve their sick aims.

We all owe a debt of gratitude to those who fight them, especially the Entente Cordiale who valiantly fought them in France. The fight was a good one, but the pirates won with superior numbers in the end. Thankfully, the Entente Cordiale grows stronger every day, and now Ireland is being considered for membership, with a possible admission of Great Britain in the near future.

Most regions are under lockdown now due to these pirates. This is not the way anyone wants to live their lives. The Factor calls on the pirates to do the right thing, and go back to where they came from.

And that's a Talking Points memo."

Ackbar, Juxtapositions, Architeuthis and Francos Spain? Hah. Kind of looks like one of their players still has control over "America". In the event that Franco's reign did just start out as an invasion like their other regions, this would make much more sense, I mean why else would a USSR roleplayer and a former Spain resident just plop in The Pacific and decide to coup one day, with the means to do so?

There was a lot of early confusion about the Farkers and 100 Nations of Conquest. When I was first made aware of the Farkers, it was after they invaded Lazy College Students (one of their earliest victims). A friend of mine (in RL) was playing in a different region (the original True North region, not the one recently condemned) pointed them out. Because the Farkers were worried about their over the top antics resulting in retaliation, they never disclosed their home region, until it was later discovered by others.

Some clown from 100 Nations of Conquest decided to take credit for one of the Farker's invasions and painted a big bulls-eye on their region. I was as much responsible as anyone in disseminating this falsehood, because many people wanted to know their home region and it was our first 'intelligence.' Much later, after laughing about all the griefing that the 100 Nations of Conquest received over this, the Farkers eventually invaded them briefly just because. Before then, I'd found out who they were when another friend of mine sent me the transcripts from the Farker group site (like an ongoing, one thread bulletin board), after they had already switched to a password protected Invisionfree forum.

[The Bruce]

Something that always struck me as so sad about the original NationStates was the forums. For the really old players, and I'm talking maybe through mid-2003, the NS forums were really slow. Like agonizingly slow. No one ever went to the Big Boards, even major players, just because of how ludicrously frustrating it was to be there.

I think that's really sad now, because we never had a common community that a vibrant forums can bring. On the other hand, it forced this kind of strange balkinization where nearly all player-to-player interaction took place off-forums on regional and alliance forums. The bad taste that the "big boards" left in the mouths of the elder generation kept many of us off of it for years, even long after the speed problems had been dealt with.

It generally took 2-10 minutes just to do a simple reply. You had to really want to post something, because it would probably hang and you'd have to start over again. If you didn't copy paste your posts from a word document you were in for a lot of grief. That bad forum taste problem is absolutely true for the older players. Part of it was also the difficulty of building a regional community on a NS forum.

The other thing was the 120 pages of UN proposals to sift through as a delegate. That was an ugly and unrewarding experience.

[Todd McCloud]

Highly interested in TEP history for whatever reason right now. Specifically, the pre-Loopian history, maybe the first year of Loop. I've not been too familiarized with that time frame of our region... and it's always been a sort of gray area for most there.

[The Bruce]

Highly interested in TEP history for whatever reason right now. Specifically, the pre-Loopian history, maybe the first year of Loop. I've not been too familiarized with that time frame of our region... and it's always been a sort of gray area for most there.

I feel the same way about pre-Francos Spain Pacific. It's probably one of the least documented periods of NationStates history for a very significant region.

I'd be surprised if Pre-Loopian history lasted more than a couple of weeks in the East Pacific and it was probably a lot shorter than that. I'm also not entirely certain about the story of Lotlanthanderamore asking Infinite Loop to take over the East Pacific for them and then suddenly leaving the game forever. It's more likely that it was an invasion or coup. I seem to remember that in the early days, Tweety was in the East Pacific and was one of the top flag designers for players in NationStates.

[Todd McCloud]

Highly interested in TEP history for whatever reason right now. Specifically, the pre-Loopian history, maybe the first year of Loop. I've not been too familiarized with that time frame of our region... and it's always been a sort of gray area for most there.

I feel the same way about pre-Francos Spain Pacific. It's probably one of the least documented periods of NationStates history for a very significant region.

I'd be surprised if Pre-Loopian history lasted more than a couple of weeks in the East Pacific and it was probably a lot shorter than that. I'm also not entirely certain about the story of Lotlanthanderamore asking Infinite Loop to take over the East Pacific for them and then suddenly leaving the game forever. It's more likely that it was an invasion or coup. I seem to remember that in the early days, Tweety was in the East Pacific and was one of the top flag designers for players in NationStates.

The Tweedy theory may hold water with me. We've had multiple "flag service" sub-forums over on TEP's forums (notably this one, which was active from 2003-2006).

[Blackbird]

Highly interested in TEP history for whatever reason right now. Specifically, the pre-Loopian history, maybe the first year of Loop. I've not been too familiarized with that time frame of our region... and it's always been a sort of gray area for most there.

My suggestion might be to comb through any logs you might have of Kandarin's old chats that he used to put up on AIM. Loop used to talk about history there.

[Of crazed]

If people have more DEN questions, I would be glad to throw my 2cents in.

What do the initials DEN stand for?

They aren't initials. Its a den as in a lion's den. While I can't find the exact phase used, one of the earliest DEN propaganda slogans was how the DEN military appeared like lions leaving a den.