Proposal: Safe Switching

[The Most Glorious Hack]

Now jotted down in my notes: if and when Option 2 (allow nations to go through update multiple times, so there's much less need for switching) goes into effect, also limit the number of delegacies a nation can hold to 1.

Mmm... hyper-inflating population and tons of issues every day...

[Topid]

Now jotted down in my notes: if and when Option 2 (allow nations to go through update multiple times, so there's much less need for switching) goes into effect, also limit the number of delegacies a nation can hold to 1.

Mmm... hyper-inflating population and tons of issues every day...

[Violet] was pretty clear she would make the nation only update in that sense once per update, it'd just be the endorsements that would count more.

a known hard liner on following NS Rules

You say that as if you are one of the few that support that or even that your organization has a reputation of doing it / supporting it more than any other? No one likes multiers at all.

[Sichuan Pepper]

Why is that quoted here? It is not pertinent the this discussion.

[Topid]

Why is that quoted here? It is not pertinent the this discussion.

It was an interesting statement, and it sounds very creepyish to me, I couldn't not point it out. If we're going that route why were you talking about the reaction of TITO to Unibot/Halc at all?

EDIT: Ohhhh, now I see what you're saying... I got my tabs confused, I thought they were different pages of the same thread.
Whelp, time for me to go to bed. My apologies.

[Mousebumples]

It is jumping the gun with no safeties applied that I know of. I can and will ask important questions of it.
This does have a secondary effect on nations that do not switch....so while I encourage a safe way for all you switchers out there I also am concerned with consequence of it to update and to RD.

Honestly, I think it isn't a bad idea to try it out now (pre-summit) and then players can discuss/suggest relevant changes (which, depending on what all happens, could honestly be considered "bug reports") during the summit itself.

Whether it "takes too long to switch" (i.e. the lag may still be a factor, but as the WA membership is transferring over from one nation to another, multi-ing won't happen as the second nation may be delayed in gaining their new WA membership .... Makes it possible to tag-raid (or de-tag) 100 regions per update ... Removes any sense of stealth (depending on what the WA happenings say: i.e. Mousebumples has resigned the WA, immediately followed by Cielos Negros has joined the WA would probably be a pretty good hint that both nations are me.)

I'm not saying that there aren't potential issues that should be addressed. But I'd rather they get "test driven" now so potential changes and/or additional "fixes" to R/D can be discussed during the summit itself.

EDIT: Grammar/spelling

[Mahaj]

Everyone is not doing it....just the most vocal groups. This is catering to a select group and disregarding major concerns of others.
I would have liked a lot more discussion was held before implementation.

So you oppose something that makes those groups' lives easier?

[Vladisvok Destino]

Everyone is not doing it....just the most vocal groups. This is catering to a select group and disregarding major concerns of others.
I would have liked a lot more discussion was held before implementation.

So you oppose something that makes those groups' lives easier?

So you're going to ignore issues raised by those other groups on the grounds that it makes your life easier?

[Jamie Anumia]

Everyone is not doing it....just the most vocal groups. This is catering to a select group and disregarding major concerns of others.
I would have liked a lot more discussion was held before implementation.

So you oppose something that makes those groups' lives easier?

I don't think that's what Wordy meant. She was merely questioning it's necessity, from what I can gather. And I agree, the change is not fully necessary. I personally thinking switching can be fully safe if people actually take a few seconds to check if they are switching correctly, It's better to be miss a raid from these extra few seconds and be sure that you have resigned than risk it and be wrong.

[Glen-Rhodes]

Regardless of necessity, the game is supposed to allow one person to join the World Assembly with only one nation at a time. This change is conforming to that, and is a good idea regardless of the situation. The current scheme floods the system with redundant email addresses, which all have to be stored somewhere. By removing the need to create two or more email addresses to switch WA membership between nations, you are saving space and time.

[General Halcones]

This is not about you halc. It plays major havoc on our capabilities to spot actual raids when WA happenings are an endless run of nations switching and huge lag.
God forbid if TITO did start switching as I fear the game would go into melt down.

And that's the idea, isn't it? We must find some way of making it difficult for you to guys to spot stealth raids. Without this, we have no chance. This is what makes the game balanced. It should never be made easy for you.

[Crushing Our Enemies]

Any technical change that results in more congruity between game rules and game mechanics is a good one. The rules say you can't have more than one nation in the WA at a time. Soon, the mechanics will begin to reflect this. Any impact this has on one group or another is therefore justified.

[Land filled with People]

Everyone is not doing it....just the most vocal groups. This is catering to a select group and disregarding major concerns of others.
I would have liked a lot more discussion was held before implementation.

So you oppose something that makes those groups' lives easier?

That's not what Wordy meant and you know it. The fact is that this has been a rushed decision without any thought as to the consequences of making switching safer and faster. The reason we are in this situation is because Halc isn't content with just taking 41 regions (or whatever ridiculous number that record is), implementing this change by itself will only enable Halc to take sixty, seventy, eighty regions in one update. The point of the upcoming summit is to talk about possible solutions to problems and to think about all the consequences of those solutions not to hurriedly rush in changes just before it when no thought has gone into them.

This is not about you halc. It plays major havoc on our capabilities to spot actual raids when WA happenings are an endless run of nations switching and huge lag.
God forbid if TITO did start switching as I fear the game would go into melt down.

And that's the idea, isn't it? We must find some way of making it difficult for you to guys to spot stealth raids. Without this, we have no chance. This is what makes the game balanced. It should never be made easy for you.

Emphasis mine. Tell that to Europeia. They frequently conduct successful stealth raids.

[Sedgistan]

Any technical change that results in more congruity between game rules and game mechanics is a good one. The rules say you can't have more than one nation in the WA at a time. Soon, the mechanics will begin to reflect this. Any impact this has on one group or another is therefore justified.

That almost sounds like it was drafted by the hivemind. You'll find this is generally the moderator opinion.

[Belschaft]

Any technical change that results in more congruity between game rules and game mechanics is a good one. The rules say you can't have more than one nation in the WA at a time. Soon, the mechanics will begin to reflect this. Any impact this has on one group or another is therefore justified.

That almost sounds like it was drafted by the hivemind. You'll find this is generally the moderator opinion.

I think the fact that we have a GPer near total consensus and an apparent Mod near total consensus suggests that this is probably a good idea.


I can only hope that those objecting to this proposal on the grounds that it may make their own organisations job harder (it won't) would look at the bigger picture and realise that ultimately this change will be good for everyone. Probably.

[[violet]]

The fact is that this has been a rushed decision without any thought as to the consequences

I proposed it nine months ago and there's been quite a lot of discussion around it since, both in Tech and amongst mods & admin, as players have continued to run afoul of the current system. What I'm implementing is pretty minimal, and, I think, very obviously a better system than requiring players to manually create and manage multiple email addresses, with bans handed out to anyone who gets it wrong.

The main gameplay impact will be that nations can apply to the WA and then very quickly enter it, whereas previously they had to wait for up to 12 hours. I'm not sure if this is a great advantage for invaders, though, since the WA application is logged to the WA page, so it's like a big heads-up to any defenders that in about five or ten seconds this nation is likely to do something. In fact, given that anyone applying to the WA mid-update is disproportionately likely to be doing so for R/D, it may turn out that invaders prefer to generate those confirmation emails well in advance, and sit on them until they're required. In which case, the only change is that you don't need to juggle multiple email addresses. But we'll see.

[Cerian Quilor]

So when is this going into effect, rough estimate? Is it in effect now (so any new puppets I make can now use my main e-mail) or not yet>

[Johz]

So when is this going into effect, rough estimate? Is it in effect now (so any new puppets I make can now use my main e-mail) or not yet>

This would be a tremendous improvement from the current system. It seems kind of simple, too, but that could be because I'm not a coder. This might be a bit premature but If this were to be implemented, when would this realistically be fixed?

Mmm, it's simple in the same way that "switch to a database" is simple. It's simple to say.

Anyway, because I love you so much, I have spent all day coding. It's now working on my local machine. I'll do a little more testing tomorrow and then throw it in and see what blows up. Your job will be to give me helpful bug reports.

So, as an estimate, later than tomorrow, but before December, perhaps in some sort of testing phase? I'm not sure how one tests such a system, so I don't know the exact method of implementation, but... soon.

[Romanar]

So when is this going into effect, rough estimate? Is it in effect now (so any new puppets I make can now use my main e-mail) or not yet>

Mmm, it's simple in the same way that "switch to a database" is simple. It's simple to say.

Anyway, because I love you so much, I have spent all day coding. It's now working on my local machine. I'll do a little more testing tomorrow and then throw it in and see what blows up. Your job will be to give me helpful bug reports.

So, as an estimate, later than tomorrow, but before December, perhaps in some sort of testing phase? I'm not sure how one tests such a system, so I don't know the exact method of implementation, but... soon.

Sounds good to me! And even though I'm not an active R/D er, I'll be glad to do my part testing this.

[[violet]]

So when is this going into effect, rough estimate? Is it in effect now (so any new puppets I make can now use my main e-mail) or not yet>

Now! It's live. Time for testing & bug reports, please.

Currently both systems are running in parallel, so anyone who applied to the WA under the old system can still get in. But all new WA applications are processed through the new system.

[Todd McCloud]

So when is this going into effect, rough estimate? Is it in effect now (so any new puppets I make can now use my main e-mail) or not yet>

Now! It's live. Time for testing & bug reports, please.

Currently both systems are running in parallel, so anyone who applied to the WA under the old system can still get in. But all new WA applications are processed through the new system.

<3

Awesome news, thanks to those who did the work to get this going quickly!

[Crushing Our Enemies]

So when is this going into effect, rough estimate? Is it in effect now (so any new puppets I make can now use my main e-mail) or not yet>

Now! It's live. Time for testing & bug reports, please.

Currently both systems are running in parallel, so anyone who applied to the WA under the old system can still get in. But all new WA applications are processed through the new system.

So exactly what are the changes? I see now that if you apply with a nation that shares an email address with a WA nation, you get a warning message. If you attempt to join with that nation, would you be unable to, before resigning with the other?

[Ambroscus Koth]

So if I understand this correctly, I can log into my 60 switchers (which all have WA e-mails at the moment), change their e-mails all to the same one, apply them, and they can be (almost) instantly let in?

EDIT: Not at the same time, I mean. If I re-applied any of them individually.

[[violet]]

So exactly what are the changes? I see now that if you apply with a nation that shares an email address with a WA nation, you get a warning message. If you attempt to join with that nation, would you be unable to, before resigning with the other?

Correct.

From a player's point of view, the differences are:

1. You can apply to join the WA even if your email address is already used by another WA nation. (Previously, the game would refuse your application.) This means you can generate WA invitation emails for multiple nations using the same email account; you don't need to go out and create a bunch of different email addresses first.
2. If you try to enter the WA and your email address is in use by another WA nation, you'll be told you can't do that until you resign the other nation first. This means you can't accidentally break the one-WA-member-per-player rule, so long as you stick with a single email address.

[Todd McCloud]

I might be stretching things a bit, but seeing as switching is in the process of being fixed, is it possible that those who fell victim to the faulty system of the past could have their permanent ban from the WA lifted?

[Mahaj]

So exactly what are the changes? I see now that if you apply with a nation that shares an email address with a WA nation, you get a warning message. If you attempt to join with that nation, would you be unable to, before resigning with the other?

Correct.

From a player's point of view, the differences are:

1. You can apply to join the WA even if your email address is already used by another WA nation. (Previously, the game would refuse your application.) This means you can generate WA invitation emails for multiple nations using the same email account; you don't need to go out and create a bunch of different email addresses first.
2. If you try to enter the WA and your email address is in use by another WA nation, you'll be told you can't do that until you resign the other nation first. This means you can't accidentally break the one-WA-member-per-player rule, so long as you stick with a single email address.

Tested this a bit.

I can confirm that the "you cannot multii with a single email address" idea works.



Also, you can reapp once every three minutes, which is awesome.