The United Defenders League

[Sovreignry]

You know, since refounds are so easy let me just strap on my refound helmet, shimmy down my refound cannon and blast off to refound land where refounds grow on refound trees.

[Cinistra]

You know, since refounds are so easy let me just strap on my refound helmet, shimmy down my refound cannon and blast off to refound land where refounds grow on refound trees.

What are you implying? That refounding is difficult?

[Mallorea and Riva]

Right, the truth is, I absolutely abhor this entire aspect of NS with a fiery burning passion. In fact, if it were to be banned tomorrow I wouldn't shed a tear. And anyone who actually knows me, already knew that.

Which aspect?

Flib no like da raiding methinks

[Frattastan]

You know, since refounds are so easy let me just strap on my refound helmet, shimmy down my refound cannon and blast off to refound land where refounds grow on refound trees.

What are you implying? That refounding is difficult?

Considering you lost one in Marijuana Islands, I guess so.
Other than risk of hijacking, it's a pain in terms of the time and the level of organisation it takes (especially for regions that are large and/or have a lot of high-Influence nations), it can create security problems if the password is leaked while the Delegate has few endorsements (although it's rare if you are careful) and it may lead to the loss a few residents, as not all the nations will return after they have been ejected/asked to move out.

You never know if it will work out well and improve the state of the region, or not.

There are also other reasons that could lead a region to decide against a refound - such as history and democratic governance.

[Cinistra]

What are you implying? That refounding is difficult?

Considering you lost one in Marijuana Islands, I guess so.
Other than risk of hijacking, it's a pain in terms of the time and the level of organisation it takes (especially for regions that are large and/or have a lot of high-Influence nations), it can create security problems if the password is leaked while the Delegate has few endorsements (although it's rare if you are careful) and it may lead to the loss a few residents, as not all the nations will return after they have been ejected/asked to move out.

You never know if it will work out well and improve the state of the region, or not.

There are also other reasons that could lead a region to decide against a refound - such as history and democratic governance.

MI, yes. Umm well, I wasn't aware of the change of time, causing update to occur one hour earlier than I thought. When I checked in on the region 45 minutes too early (my assumption), I was 15 minutes too late. However, I have only myself to blame, not the fact that refounding itself is difficult. It's not.

[Cerian Quilor]

I mean, Raiders have fairly large numbers of updaters

Ha.

6 at best for TBR, 2 for ERN, maybe another 12 more total.

And yet you can't even beat that.

What does that say about you guys?

[Cormac Stark]

And yet you can't even beat that.

What does that say about you guys?

See this post and reflect upon the fact that things have changed a bit while you were away.

[Cerian Quilor]

Cormac, don't treat me like an idiot.

That would be <censored by myself so the mods don't hammer me >, not me.

The fact of the matter remains that you guys are still in a bad enough state that you complain about your bad state, and trumpet minor victories as if they're the battle of Verdun. You can't liberate much, you still can't defend much, and you still spend much of your time on detags.

The fact that TBR has suffered setbacks in of themselves do not mean you're actually winning, unless you can turn that into a sustained thing, whereas TBR continues sustain a broad series of successes across the board on a regulari basis.

[Lyanna Stark]

Cormac, don't treat me like an idiot.

That would be <censored by myself so the mods don't hammer me >, not me.

The fact of the matter remains that you guys are still in a bad enough state that you complain about your bad state, and trumpet minor victories as if they're the battle of Verdun. You can't liberate much, you still can't defend much, and you still spend much of your time on detags.

The fact that TBR has suffered setbacks in of themselves do not mean you're actually winning, unless you can turn that into a sustained thing, whereas TBR continues sustain a broad series of successes across the board on a regulari basis.

See, this is the thing I dislike about people not highly involved in gameplay posting on things in gameplay. You come into our threads and just start bitching about how we aren't doing enough, or aren't doing well enough..but then don't do anything yourself. Step up or shut up. You're not an authority to talk about what we do at update, or how we're doing.

Defenders -win- no matter -what- if raiders fail to take a region, or a region is safe for another update. Last major we had eleven successful defenses, where TBR only took six regions. Just looking at the defense score alone, we -did- kick butt. And then if you factor in the fact that raiders had attempted to take a total of twenty eight regions and only got six? Yeah, it was a victory for the safety of founderless regions overall.

Both sides of the game have agreed there are issues--regarding update time, regarding lag on the WA page, and especially regarding WA switching. There's going to be a conference to fix issues in gameplay. Thus, there must be issues that are impeding -both- sides. Pretending that there's not and just going around as if you have any authority on the matter is absolutely ridiculous. We're not complaining that we're in a bad state, we're pointing out that there -are issues to fix-, that will be fixed.

The UDL and the FRA have a larger update force than TBR and whatever Jamie's new group is (I name these two forces as they were out at update), and we do what we can with the numbers we get each update. We liberated two regions the past week successfully.

I have no idea where you're getting the idea that we're doing poorly. We're doing great for what we've got, and we're always gaining more.

[Mahaj]

Ha.

6 at best for TBR, 2 for ERN, maybe another 12 more total.

And yet you can't even beat that.

What does that say about you guys?

Cerian, have you ever heard of non-updaters?

[Cromarty]

Ha.

6 at best for TBR, 2 for ERN, maybe another 12 more total.

And yet you can't even beat that.

One defender organisation can't match the total number of updaters in the entire raider world?

No. Fucking. Shit.

[Mahaj]

And yet you can't even beat that.

One defender organisation can't match the total number of updaters in the entire raider world?

No. Fucking. Shit.

Actually, we *can* beat them in terms of purely /updaters/.

[Galiantus]

You know, since refounds are so easy let me just strap on my refound helmet, shimmy down my refound cannon and blast off to refound land where refounds grow on refound trees.

There is a BIG difference between just going around refounding random regions and going around seeking regions who want to refound. If you can get the natives on board for the refound, and if you can teach them how to refound properly, it should only take a few non-updaters, and maybe an updater, to refound the region.

[Belschaft]

You know, since refounds are so easy let me just strap on my refound helmet, shimmy down my refound cannon and blast off to refound land where refounds grow on refound trees.

There is a BIG difference between just going around refounding random regions and going around seeking regions who want to refound. If you can get the natives on board for the refound, and if you can teach them how to refound properly, it should only take a few non-updaters, and maybe an updater, to refound the region.

Really? Tell me, have you ever been involved in a refound? Because speaking from my own experience, you are massively underestimating how much effort and time is required to successfully pull one off, especially if there is a risk of opposition.

[Flibbleites]

Which aspect?

Flib no like da raiding methinks

Exactly, and since I consider Defending to be basically the opposite side of the same coin, I'm not a fan of it either.
See, I'm not biased, I hate both groups equally.

[Feux]

Flib no like da raiding methinks

Exactly, and since I consider Defending to be basically the opposite side of the same coin, I'm not a fan of it either.
See, I'm not biased, I hate both groups equally.

This really needs to be a quote somewhere.

[Eist]

Flib no like da raiding methinks

Exactly, and since I consider Defending to be basically the opposite side of the same coin, I'm not a fan of it either.
See, I'm not biased, I hate both groups equally.

It's interesting to me that a Game Moderator hates gameplay.

[Ambroscus Koth]

Exactly, and since I consider Defending to be basically the opposite side of the same coin, I'm not a fan of it either.
See, I'm not biased, I hate both groups equally.

It's interesting to me that a Game Moderator hates gameplay.

Well, calling R/D "gameplay" has always been kind of a misnomer, to be fair.

[Unibot III]

Flib no like da raiding methinks

Exactly, and since I consider Defending to be basically the opposite side of the same coin, I'm not a fan of it either.
See, I'm not biased, I hate both groups equally.

The enemy of your enemy is your enemy? That makes no sense, if we didn't defend, raiders wouldn't be limited.

[Seirawan]

I think he just despises the whole charade. And he does have a point. Defending has gotten to the point where its mostly for the defenders that raiders raid it seems, considering the racket you boys and the odd girl or two make over the rampant invading.

[Unibot III]

Defending has gotten to the point where its mostly for the defenders that raiders raid it seems, considering the racket you boys and the odd girl or two make over the rampant invading.

What came first, defending or raiding? Raiding. Players were happy to invade without people trying to stop them.

If we were to boycott defending, regions will still be invaded. Raiders are happy to pile a raid and not have to face defenders.

The propensity to debauchery is unfortunately, widespread.

[Seirawan]

It's not unfortunate, its entertaining. Life, like raiding, is a pursuit to happiness, and will go on; defenders or not.

[Cromarty]

I think he just despises the whole charade.

Like most of NS.

It's why a raider version of the UDL wouldn't work.

[Frattastan]

I think he just despises the whole charade. And he does have a point. Defending has gotten to the point where its mostly for the defenders that raiders raid it seems, considering the racket you boys and the odd girl or two make over the rampant invading.

Question: how do you manage to look like some intellectual closed in their world of abstractions, observing and making statements and analyses on the raiding/defending world without any arguments or references to real facts ("It's mostly for the defenders that raiders raid", "Raiding and defending is very much like an invigorating game of chess.") and then still use the "No women on the Internet!" rule with a certain nonchalance?

[Moronist Decisions]

OOC: May I remind everyone that this is just a game, and that there's no reason why someone can't completely hate a particular aspect of a game (in this case, gameplay)? It's an opinion, and imo Flib is entitled to his.