(DRAFT)Condemn AntiFa

[Jekrehnot]

Description:

The Security Council,

HAVING it's primary goal to stop inter-regional conflicts and invasions of non-agressive regions,

NOTING that the region of AntiFa,along with it's allies,have commited over 100 invasions of new and less populated fascist and national socialist regions,

FURTHER NOTING that the regions who felt victim to the invasions of AntiFa were peacefull,non-invader regions,

REALIZING that AntiFa's only goal is to eliminate fascism and national socialism from the world,even if the victims of their invasions are peacefull,and they will do whatever they can to stop fascism,for example they used puppet states to infiltrate the victims' regions,

DISGUSTED at the fact that most of the members of the above mentioned region don't even know what Fascism or National Socialism is,but they are lied to by their leaders.

NOTICES that AntiFa's next target are now The Greater German Reich's colonies,just because of the region's members' beliefs are different from the AntiFa's.

HEREBY CONDEMNS AntiFa.

[Skyrim Diplomacy]

Before getting into the specifics of the proposal, I would highly suggest taking out all but the first instance of the region tag. It's not like we have forgotten what the region in question is in the time it takes to read this proposal. There are also numerous spacing errors which should be fixed in any updated drafts, as well as some minor spelling and grammar issues (peacefull->peaceful). All in all, you need a lot more material than what you have here, as a lot of your current arguments are either completely inaccurate or simple rhetoric/fluff.

Description:

The Security Council,

HAVING it's primary goal to stop inter-regional conflicts and invasions of non-agressive regions,

That's blatantly erroneous. The header directly over the SC says "Spreading interregional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary."

NOTING that the region of AntiFa,along with it's allies,have commited over 100 invasions of new and less populated fascist and national socialist regions,

Fair enough.

FURTHER NOTING that the regions who felt victim to the invasions of AntiFa were peacefull,non-invader regions,

All 100+ of them? I find that hard to believe. Where's the evidence of that?

REALIZING that AntiFa's only goal is to eliminate fascism and national socialism from the world,even if the victims of their invasions are peacefull,and they will do whatever they can to stop fascism,for example they used puppet states to infiltrate the victims' regions,

Once again, a broad, sweeping statement that would be hard to back up with evidence. Perhaps "one of their [Antifa's] goals?"

DISGUSTED at the fact that most of the members of the above mentioned region don't even know what Fascism or National Socialism is,but they are lied to by their leaders.

One more time, how you possibly prove that? Sounds like uninformed fascist propaganda to me.

NOTICES that AntiFa's next target are now The Greater German Reich's colonies,just because of the region's members' beliefs are different from the AntiFa's.

That's what the entire R/D game is about. Ergo, this argument is flat and not in the least bit persuasive.

HEREBY CONDEMNS AntiFa.

Not with this draft as written, that's for sure.

[Bundabunda]

This is kind of like the pot calling the kettle black...aren't you a higher up in GGR? What irony on display here!

Now for the actual substance:


You keep using "Peaceful" and "Non-Invader" redundantly. Lemme show you what I mean:

FURTHER NOTING that the regions who felt victim to the invasions of AntiFa were peacefull,non-invader regions,

REALIZING that AntiFa's only goal is to eliminate fascism and national socialism from the world,even if the victims of their invasions are peacefull,and they will do whatever they can to stop fascism,for example they used puppet states to infiltrate the victims' regions,

Even then, what's you point? Antifa's short for Antifaschismus, German for Antifascism. Our goal isn't to eradicate only the ones who attack others. Our goal is to eradicate all of them. The ideology's inherently aggressive and expansionist, reason enough for preemptive strikes.

Moving on.

DISGUSTED at the fact that most of the members of the above mentioned region don't even know what Fascism or National Socialism is,but they are lied to by their leaders.

Funny enough, ALL of Antifa's affiliates are volunteers. We know exactly who and what we're fighting: your people.
To add to this, I fill every single one of my guys on the next mission, and they take it or they leave it. Some go to pursue other projects that they actually believe in, and we go on about our own business. That's how my org, the Regional Defense Committee works, anyway.
Doesn't LCG require every GGR member to give them the name of their WA nation or sign up for "Zhe Wechtrmacht"? Hmm? I'd actually say that we're much less brainwashed than your lot. Nobody forces anybody to anything. That's how Antifa works. The 400 regions or so taken were all out of a desire to do it, not because "An army marches on its stomach", a la Bonaparte.

NOTICES that AntiFa's next target are now The Greater German Reich's colonies,just because of the region's members' beliefs are different from the AntiFa's.

Actually, the RDC's involved in The Greater German Reich Recruitment and The URAP. It even says on the WFE that Antifa's current mission is the Urap. You're definitely misinformed. We took Felix's regions a while back.

It's not that I'm against this proposal. Hell, I don't care whether it passes or even makes the floor. What I do care is representation of facts. You missed even the biggest details. For that reason alone, I'll be against.

And for future clarification, can you please give us the definition of "Antifascist"? I feel that the other, non-communist allies aren't being as appreciated as they should be.

[Fynnbays]

Seriously? We're trying this again? Okay aside from the countless failures this movement has suffered (I've seen at least 4 "Condemn Antifa" bills in my short time playing), lets move onto the content which is pretty poor. (This won't drag on much longer as SD pretty much said it all).

The Security Council,

HAVING it's primary goal to stop inter-regional conflicts and invasions of non-agressive regions,

Needless to have this section in. We already know.

NOTING that the region of AntiFa,along with it's allies,have commited over 100 invasions of new and less populated fascist and national socialist regions,

Well it's really over 300 and not necessarily new or less populated.

FURTHER NOTING that the regions who felt victim to the invasions of AntiFa were peacefull,non-invader regions,

Really every single one was peaceful and didn't invade? Even the GGR? Even New Fascist Union of Nations who admittedly UNAF pounced on before they could raid but they stated they vowed to build "a region dedicated to liberating lost fascists holds"

REALIZING that AntiFa's only goal is to eliminate fascism and national socialism from the world,even if the victims of their invasions are peacefull,and they will do whatever they can to stop fascism,for example they used puppet states to infiltrate the victims' regions,

All raider regions when trying to take control of a region will use Puppet nations. That's nothing special.

DISGUSTED at the fact that most of the members of the above mentioned region don't even know what Fascism or National Socialism is,but they are lied to by their leaders.

Pure subjectivity. If this is objective fact please provide evidence.
Also please name any leaders you can actually name in Antifa just to validate you're knowledge of internal affairs in Antifa.

NOTICES that AntiFa's next target are now The Greater German Reich's colonies,just because of the region's members' beliefs are different from the AntiFa's.

Can't comment here as I've been out the loop for a few weeks with inactivity.

[Cormac Stark]

NOTICES that AntiFa's next target are now The Greater German Reich's colonies,just because of the region's members' beliefs are different from the AntiFa's.

I'm vehemently opposed to this condemnation, primarily because of the above clause and for the following reasons:

1. GGR's beliefs are reprehensible. Any proposal that suggests their beliefs are even remotely acceptable, as this one does, will meet with my opposition and I suspect the opposition of many in the NationStates community across the full range of the R/D spectrum.

2. GGR is itself an invader region that has invaded many founderless regions, and many of GGR's "colonies" were previously independent founderless regions that either didn't share GGR's views or were actively opposed to them. GGR is just as guilty of the offenses you would condemn Antifa for in this condemnation and depicting them as innocent victims is offensive, disgusting, and unacceptable.

I could potentially support a condemnation of Antifa that notes their frequent invasions of founderless regions that aren't really fascist at all or that have only loose ties to fascism at best. But I'm not going to support a condemnation that would punish Antifa for trying to rid the NationStates world of an insidious ideology that has no place here or anywhere else.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Description:

The Security Council,

HAVING it's primary goal to stop inter-regional conflicts and invasions of non-agressive regions,

No it isn't. "Spreading interregional peace and goodwill, via force if necessary."

NOTING that the region of AntiFa,along with it's allies,have commited over 100 invasions of new and less populated fascist and national socialist regions,

and this makes us evil and worthy of condemnation how?

FURTHER NOTING that the regions who felt victim to the invasions of AntiFa were peacefull,non-invader regions,

I'm going to ask you to prove that the lovely regions in question were peaceful.

REALIZING that AntiFa's only goal is to eliminate fascism and national socialism from the world,even if the victims of their invasions are peacefull,and they will do whatever they can to stop fascism,for example they used puppet states to infiltrate the victims' regions,

Puppeteering is not worthy of a condemnation - in fact, the GGR should know all about invading peaceful regions with puppets. Need I remind anyone of The United Kingdom of Britain?

DISGUSTED at the fact that most of the members of the above mentioned region don't even know what Fascism or National Socialism is,but they are lied to by their leaders.

How is that relevant to Antifa?

NOTICES that AntiFa's next target are now The Greater German Reich's colonies,just because of the region's members' beliefs are different from the AntiFa's.

Oh damn, GGR colonies are being attacked. I feel so guilty. Need I remind you that some of your precious colonies, like Classically Liberal Communitarians, had been created by GGR griefing, and the rest were merely founded, with no prior history, to create the illusion of a vast empire?

HEREBY CONDEMNS AntiFa.

Meanwhile, Satan is wearing a scarf and porcine animals have grown functioning wings.

[Bundabunda]

Oh look. Removed from even trying to reach quorum.
Will anyone else give it a shot?

[Skyrim Diplomacy]

Oh look. Removed from even trying to reach quorum.
Will anyone else give it a shot?

I'm guessing it was more for an illegality in the text (I'm wondering about the use of "victims' regions"), but I'm sure the snide comments are helpful. In some odd, roundabout sort of way.

[Sedgistan]

It hasn't been submitted yet, actually.

[Skyrim Diplomacy]

It hasn't been submitted yet, actually.

Then I retract my previous smiley and replace it with:

[Inyourfaceistan]

Note to self: Become allies with AntiFa!!

[Novus Niciae]

I am most definitely against this, if anything they should be praised for limiting the fascists ability to raid by making them concentrate on defense.
Without their efforts there would be far more invaded active regions.

[Sedgistan]

The thread hadn't been posted in for 5 weeks, and there was no indication the author was continuing to pursue this. Posting was unnecessary.

[Cinistra]

This is kind of like the pot calling the kettle black...aren't you a higher up in GGR? What irony on display here!

Now for the actual substance:


You keep using "Peaceful" and "Non-Invader" redundantly. Lemme show you what I mean:

FURTHER NOTING that the regions who felt victim to the invasions of AntiFa were peacefull,non-invader regions,

REALIZING that AntiFa's only goal is to eliminate fascism and national socialism from the world,even if the victims of their invasions are peacefull,and they will do whatever they can to stop fascism,for example they used puppet states to infiltrate the victims' regions,

O
Even then, what's you point? Antifa's short for Antifaschismus, German for Antifascism.Our goal isn't to eradicate only the ones who attack others. Our goal is to eradicate all of them. The ideology's inherently aggressive and expansionist, reason enough for preemptive strikes.

Moving on.

DISGUSTED at the fact that most of the members of the above mentioned region don't even know what Fascism or National Socialism is,but they are lied to by their leaders.

Funny enough, ALL of Antifa's affiliates are volunteers. We know exactly who and what we're fighting: your people.
To add to this, I fill every single one of my guys on the next mission, and they take it or they leave it. Some go to pursue other projects that they actually believe in, and we go on about our own business. That's how my org, the Regional Defense Committee works, anyway.
Doesn't LCG require every GGR member to give them the name of their WA nation or sign up for "Zhe Wechtrmacht"? Hmm? I'd actually say that we're much less brainwashed than your lot. Nobody forces anybody to anything. That's how Antifa works. The 400 regions or so taken were all out of a desire to do it, not because "An army marches on its stomach", a la Bonaparte.

NOTICES that AntiFa's next target are now The Greater German Reich's colonies,just because of the region's members' beliefs are different from the AntiFa's.

Actually, the RDC's involved in The Greater German Reich Recruitment and The URAP. It even says on the WFE that Antifa's current mission is the Urap. You're definitely misinformed. We took Felix's regions a while back.

It's not that I'm against this proposal. Hell, I don't care whether it passes or even makes the floor. What I do care is representation of facts. You missed even the biggest details. For that reason alone, I'll be against.

And for future clarification, can you please give us the definition of "Antifascist"? I feel that the other, non-communist allies aren't being as appreciated as they should be.

Is this the reason for your attack on Corporate Profit Alliance too? This founderless region hasn't attacked anyone.

[Jekrehnot]

This is kind of like the pot calling the kettle black...aren't you a higher up in GGR? What irony on display here!

Now for the actual substance:


You keep using "Peaceful" and "Non-Invader" redundantly. Lemme show you what I mean:


O
Even then, what's you point? Antifa's short for Antifaschismus, German for Antifascism.Our goal isn't to eradicate only the ones who attack others. Our goal is to eradicate all of them. The ideology's inherently aggressive and expansionist, reason enough for preemptive strikes.

Moving on.



Funny enough, ALL of Antifa's affiliates are volunteers. We know exactly who and what we're fighting: your people.
To add to this, I fill every single one of my guys on the next mission, and they take it or they leave it. Some go to pursue other projects that they actually believe in, and we go on about our own business. That's how my org, the Regional Defense Committee works, anyway.
Doesn't LCG require every GGR member to give them the name of their WA nation or sign up for "Zhe Wechtrmacht"? Hmm? I'd actually say that we're much less brainwashed than your lot. Nobody forces anybody to anything. That's how Antifa works. The 400 regions or so taken were all out of a desire to do it, not because "An army marches on its stomach", a la Bonaparte.


Actually, the RDC's involved in The Greater German Reich Recruitment and The URAP. It even says on the WFE that Antifa's current mission is the Urap. You're definitely misinformed. We took Felix's regions a while back.

It's not that I'm against this proposal. Hell, I don't care whether it passes or even makes the floor. What I do care is representation of facts. You missed even the biggest details. For that reason alone, I'll be against.

And for future clarification, can you please give us the definition of "Antifascist"? I feel that the other, non-communist allies aren't being as appreciated as they should be.

Is this the reason for your attack on Corporate Profit Alliance too? This founderless region hasn't attacked anyone.

That is proof that they are just some filthy stalinists who want to destroy all other ideologies but theirs.

If AntiFa(or,as they would spell it,AntiehFah) was really just fighting fascism,why did they ivnade a peacefull capitalist region?I don't think it is very likely that the region you mentioned was loyal to Hitler or Mussolini,or any other ''evil demons'',like those bolsheviks call the personalities of fascism.

And the AntiFa doesn't know anything else about National-Socialism than the holocaust thing.They don't know the politics and laws within the state of the GGR from 1933-1945.Your ''heroes''(Lenin,Stalin,etc..) have had good lives at the expense of their people,who was starving and opressed by the KGB and other forces that were ensuring that the leaders would not be overthrown,while Hitler treated his volk as good as he could,so please fix the problems in your ideology before criticizing others.

[Bundabunda]

Is this the reason for your attack on Corporate Profit Alliance too? This founderless region hasn't attacked anyone.

That is proof that they are just some filthy stalinists who want to destroy all other ideologies but theirs.

If AntiFa(or,as they would spell it,AntiehFah) was really just fighting fascism,why did they ivnade a peacefull capitalist region?I don't think it is very likely that the region you mentioned was loyal to Hitler or Mussolini,or any other ''evil demons'',like those bolsheviks call the personalities of fascism.

And the AntiFa doesn't know anything else about National-Socialism than the holocaust thing.They don't know the politics and laws within the state of the GGR from 1933-1945.Your ''heroes''(Lenin,Stalin,etc..) have had good lives at the expense of their people,who was starving and opressed by the KGB and other forces that were ensuring that the leaders would not be overthrown,while Hitler treated his volk as good as he could,so please fix the problems in your ideology before criticizing others.

"Hitler's justified because others were doing teh eveel tings 2!!!" is all I heard.

So...it really took you a month to come back with some clever construct, didn't it?

I actually didn't believe that it was possible to hijack your own thread, but here you are, showing that the GGR's never without a surprise.

The Red Fleet is not the entire composition of Antifa. It's a callsign of respect that we all share in the mutual struggle.
Like the mods have said, this hasn't been responded to in 5 weeks. Make a Gameplay thread if someone hurt your feelings. Or you can submit this again and have it turned down. Again.

[Cinistra]

That is proof that they are just some filthy stalinists who want to destroy all other ideologies but theirs.

If AntiFa(or,as they would spell it,AntiehFah) was really just fighting fascism,why did they ivnade a peacefull capitalist region?I don't think it is very likely that the region you mentioned was loyal to Hitler or Mussolini,or any other ''evil demons'',like those bolsheviks call the personalities of fascism.

And the AntiFa doesn't know anything else about National-Socialism than the holocaust thing.They don't know the politics and laws within the state of the GGR from 1933-1945.Your ''heroes''(Lenin,Stalin,etc..) have had good lives at the expense of their people,who was starving and opressed by the KGB and other forces that were ensuring that the leaders would not be overthrown,while Hitler treated his volk as good as he could,so please fix the problems in your ideology before criticizing others.

The Red Fleet is not the entire composition of Antifa. It's a callsign of respect that we all share in the mutual struggle.

But the Red Fleet is raiding small founderless regions, acts which you usually condemn when other regions undertake such actions. You will nevertheless be associated with the acts of The Red Fleet, just as nations staying in 10KI will be identified with TITO. I haven't seen any regrets from any of you guys for raiding (and "griefing") CPA. Fendas are also quiet in this matter. I wonder why? Sometimes silence is more telling than speak.

[Bundabunda]

The Red Fleet is not the entire composition of Antifa. It's a callsign of respect that we all share in the mutual struggle.

But the Red Fleet is raiding small founderless regions, acts which you usually condemn when other regions undertake such actions. You will nevertheless be associated with the acts of The Red Fleet, just as nations staying in 10KI will be identified with TITO. I haven't seen any regrets from any of you guys for raiding (and "griefing") CPA. Fendas are also quiet in this matter. I wonder why? Sometimes silence is more telling than speak.

A lot of us believe that fascism is capitalism in decay, the last measure to destroy any dissidence from any classes.
Cite one time I've actually "condemned" raider regions for anything.
Hell, RDC and Asgard attacked The Greater German Reich Recruitment together. I find myself sympathizing with raiders more often than I do defenders. Please look at my post history .I think you'll find that I'm not quite the hypocrite you're making me out to be.
Again, make a separate thread in Gameplay and I'll be happy to answer to these baseless accusations.

[Cinistra]

But the Red Fleet is raiding small founderless regions, acts which you usually condemn when other regions undertake such actions. You will nevertheless be associated with the acts of The Red Fleet, just as nations staying in 10KI will be identified with TITO. I haven't seen any regrets from any of you guys for raiding (and "griefing") CPA. Fendas are also quiet in this matter. I wonder why? Sometimes silence is more telling than speak.

A lot of us believe that fascism is capitalism in decay, the last measure to destroy any dissidence from any classes.
Cite one time I've actually "condemned" raider regions for anything.
Hell, RDC and Asgard attacked The Greater German Reich Recruitment together. I find myself sympathizing with raiders more often than I do defenders. Please look at my post history .I think you'll find that I'm not quite the hypocrite you're making me out to be.
Again, make a separate thread in Gameplay and I'll be happy to answer to these baseless accusations.

Believe? Sounds metaphysical. Can you prove that CPA are fascist, or is a propaganda statement on their WFE the prove you need? Apparently true fascist regions are scarse, since you'll have to resort to these kinds of rationalizations.

[The Great Destruction]

The thread hadn't been posted in for 5 weeks, and there was no indication the author was continuing to pursue this. Posting was unnecessary.

Just a friendly reminder.

Can we be done with this now?

[Cinistra]

The thread hadn't been posted in for 5 weeks, and there was no indication the author was continuing to pursue this. Posting was unnecessary.

Just a friendly reminder.

Can we be done with this now?

In a hurry, are we?

[Sedgistan]

Jekrehnot has posted since then, so I'm leaving it open.

[Nodin]

Can you prove that CPA are fascist, or is a propaganda statement on their WFE the prove you need? Apparently true fascist regions are scarse, since you'll have to resort to these kinds of rationalizations.

Before Antifa wiped CPA's WFE, embassies and region tags: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=us

Bundabunda made it abundantly clear that Antifa doesn't distinguish between capitalism and fascism. Not that it matters, but CPA is a capitalist region and its natives are/were capitalists. I TGd banjected native Aveven; s/he is most unhappy about being labeled a fascist/fash. Doesn't 'hold out much hope for justice' in CPA.

The Red Fleet is not the entire composition of Antifa. It's a callsign of respect that we all share in the mutual struggle.

Callsign, yeah sure. You can hide behind the misleading anti-fascist banner for only so long. Cuba Socialista posted 'ANTIFA forever!' on CPA's RMB, and Antifa's calling card is on CPA's WFE. Red Fleet/Antifa: one and the same.

Or you can submit this again and have it turned down. Again.

Oh, I've no doubt Antifa will receive a much deserved badge in due course—not for any anti-fascist action, which is the basis for Jekrehnot's Condemnation—but for numerous incidences of griefing and destroying peaceful, founderless non-fascist regions.

Shameful stuff: http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=1902312

[Kikomunisti]

This all makes lovely reading. Let's just point out a couple of things. Antifa and The Red Fleet are closely aligned but not always the same thing. For those class concious workers, the differences between Capitalism and Fascism are nominal, one is the last stand of the other, the two are inseparable on a class basis, both are enemies of the working classes.

Whether or not that region is "fascist" may be up for dispute, but it's vastly oppressive nature towards the great toiling masses is self evident. So, in the immortal words of Rage Against The Machine, directed at the great working classes:
"Seize tha metropolis. It's you it's built on."

One more swallow in the cuckoo's nest? This thread's still a last pitiful stand for a group of people who like to play "soldier" but can't field an army!

[ForeStarnya]

To clarify the above: