[DEFEATED] Liberate NAZI EUROPE

[Everbeek]

I remember the time you were against UDL-member-written Liberations. And those were written to help the natives. This one is intended to grief a region.

This one is intended to open a region to potential invasion, not to grief it. I have stated in this thread my unequivocal opposition to all region griefing.

Oh come on, don't act like you don't know the first thing that will happen is ANTIFA moving in and refounding

[Cormac Stark]

Oh come on, don't act like you don't know the first thing that will happen is ANTIFA moving in and refounding

As you well know -- and as I've covered in this thread, have you read it? -- refounding is much more difficult, if not impossible, with a liberation resolution in place. Up until now that's what they've, y'know, actually been used for. Try again.

[Everbeek]

I know it's more difficult without a password, though I wouldn't go as far as to say impossible, and I'm sure for such a juicy target ANTIFA and their many smaller allies would try their very hardest to manage without one. Coupled with the fact many defenders won't defend or liberate nazi regions, and probably some raiders would join in for the lulz, I'm sure it's not as impossible as you're implying.

[Captain Woodhouse]

This resolution is not justifiable on the premise of "the ends justify the means" because 1) NE does not currently pose a danger to other regions,

Only because of its small and relatively inactive population, not because it has had any change of heart or mind regarding its historical acts of aggression and destruction.

That's an outright lie; anyone not blinded by McCarthyism can see it. Your proposal is pulp, based entirely on past history—dead and buried—and a delusional assumption that the Nazi will rise again in the region.

You want to kill NE—that much is clear. You tried and failed when you were with Asgard. You were on a McCarthy bandwagon then, and nothing's changed since you joined the UDL.

Maybe you think NE hasn't experienced a change of mind/heart because old Cormac hasn't, yeah? You're not a defender, buddy, or even any recognizable mainstream NS raider. The closest fit I can think of is the MT Army.

NE is minding its own business, discussing American politics on the RMB, and here you come with this reckless claptrap because you can't get over the 'F' word on NationStates. You see any fascist cheerleaders on NE's RMB? Hell, no, but that ain't good enough for you. You're offended by the name and existence of the region. You and other UDL invaders are frustrated that your invasion attempts have been thwarted by a password.

There are five known UDL members actively trying to destroy a founderless region: Cormac Stark, Imperium Nova Roma, Altaggannah, Nullarni and Lowell Leber. I'm posting the TG that German Dragons received mid-August alerting him to an invasion by New Warsaw Pact (NWP). I'm not disclosing the individual who sent it. As far as I'm concerned the NWP is a euphemism for the UDL. The only nations mentioned in the plot are also UDL members: Altaggannah, Nullarni and Lowell Leber.


I thought that you would like to know that the confederacy of altAgannah Is planning to invade you. It seems that you have a spy in your midst and that is the constitutional monarchy of iuku. Here is a copy of the telegram that they sent me.
Yours sincerely

The Confederacy of Altaggannah (1 day 14 hours ago)
Hello Proud Member of the NWP!
As you know I am the Minister of the Military of the New Warsaw Pact. Within the next couple weeks we will be going into a major state of an upcoming operation. However that is TOP SECRET. So what I need to know is this:
Can you be on at the major update (12:00 Eastern US time)
If you can please telegram me back saying that you can, if not telegram me saying that you can't. This is one of the most vital parts of the mission. Also let me actually tell you what the mission is:
First of all you cannot tell anybody these plans. We are technically raiding NAZI EUROPE. I have (luckilly) parked a puppet nation there before they set the invisible password so for the next couple weeks we (highly knowledgable people about NS D/R game) will be playing the spying game which will require patience and skill.When we do get the password, we will go on the IRC at 11:00 Eastern time and start talking about the mission and giving briefings about it. Where we will tell you EXACTLY what to do. As you know my spy, The Constitutional Monarchy of Iuku, is the spy already there and he is collecting influence so the approximate 20 extra endos + endos in NE + endos from other allies that we will gain in the future will give him the WA delegacy. All I will do is switch around the hidden password. I will only tell The Democratic Judgeship of Nullarni and The Armed Republic of Lowell Leber the password so dont be moving in and out of the region. After that I will start ejecting natives until its just us were I will tell some of you to move out at each update until eventually its just me and my sole endo'r which we will leave and everyone will be logged in and ready to start refounding it until we get it. After that give that nation's password, unless we use a certain nation I have in mind, to me or Nullarni and we will do what is needed.
- Your Excited Minister of the Military, The Confederacy of Altaggannah

[Cormac Stark]

I'm breaking my rule not to respond to you just this once.

That's an outright lie; anyone not blinded by McCarthyism can see it. Your proposal is pulp, based entirely on past history—dead and buried—and a delusional assumption that the Nazi will rise again in the region.

Call me crazy, but I do tend to assume that the Nazi will rise again -- if it ever really left -- in a region called NAZI EUROPE that still has the Fascist tag. Besides that, weren't you folks mobilizing WA nations in Groom Lake just last month (see this guy now, this guy then)? What were you doing -- sight-seeing?

By the way, McCarthyism was anti-Communism. Just FYI.

You want to kill NE—that much is clear. You tried and failed when you were with Asgard. You were on a McCarthy bandwagon then, and nothing's changed since you joined the UDL.

Interesting that you would be aware of that, given that the failed raid in question wasn't publicized. Perhaps one of Asgard's allies has sprung a leak -- my money's on The LKE, given that your friend above is a citizen of The LKE when he isn't moonlighting as a Nazi.

In any event, Asgard participated in an attempted invasion of NAZI EUROPE in a support capacity. The attempt was led by Europeia. The likelihood that Europeia would kill NAZI EUROPE or any other region is fairly remote, so your claims are groundless. You are correct that my opposition to Nazism hasn't changed since joining the UDL though.

Maybe you think NE hasn't experienced a change of mind/heart because old Cormac hasn't, yeah?

No, it's probably because you were mobilizing WA nations in Groom Lake just last month, as I noted above.

NE is minding its own business, discussing American politics on the RMB, and here you come with this reckless claptrap because you can't get over the 'F' word on NationStates. You see any fascist cheerleaders on NE's RMB? Hell, no, but that ain't good enough for you.

Your region is called NAZI EUROPE and you have the Fascist tag. Explain to me why anyone should believe you're not a Nazi region, especially when you're still as recently as last month engaging in military operations against Communist regions.

In regard to your claims regarding New Warsaw Pact and the UDL, which I haven't quoted: 1) I'm not in NWP nor am I privy to their operations; 2) NWP =/= UDL, regardless of member overlap (after all, the vast majority of UDL members are not in NWP); and 3) the UDL does not defend Nazi regions, but as far as I'm aware it also does not encourage nor condone their invasion. I am the author of this liberation resolution, not the UDL (or the NWP for that matter), and I alone am responsible for it. There are several members of the UDL who have voiced their disagreement with this resolution to me and there are many members of the UDL who wouldn't invade any region, Nazi or otherwise.

[Khanatah]

I, Khanatah, Delegate of the USSR, am happily in favour of this.

I will vote for it when the time comes and encourage my comrades to do similar, and I will be pleased with any hostile action taken against NAZI EUROPE.

[Captain Woodhouse]

Call me crazy, but I do tend to assume that the Nazi will rise again -- if it ever really left -- in a region called NAZI EUROPE that still has the Fascist tag.

I suppose the tag has some historical significance. I'm sorry it bugs the hell out of you. The Vast has a fascist tag and I see no evidence of Nazis in The Vast. You going after a moderator's region and other regions with fascist tags next?

Besides that, weren't you folks mobilizing WA nations in Groom Lake just last month. . . What were you doing -- sight-seeing?
. . . it's probably because you were mobilizing WA nations in Groom Lake just last month, as I noted above.

CR and I constitute a mobilization against the whole of Antifa and the MT Army? Man, if you think I'm that stupid, the international community has nothing to worry about. Get real, for crying out loud. We were in Groom Lake hoping to call your attention to the region and stop Antifa & Co. from taking it. You gave it to them instead. We also hoped you'd defend Mariner Trench and Tokyo. You let Antifa take those regions as well. Back then I had this crazy idea ya'll cared about founderless regions. I know that other defender orgs occasionally defend fascist regions—the URAP for instance, which is as fascist as it gets in this game.

I also have nations in three other former Shira Bell refounds: Italian Social Republic, Napoleonic Empire, and National Bolshevik Party—for the exact same reason. Just when I gave up on the UDL, whaddya know—you come to the Napoleonic Empire's rescue. Thanks for unsuppressing the Byron that I posted.

By the way, McCarthyism was anti-Communism. Just FYI.

FYI: Originally coined to criticize the anti-communist pursuits of Republican U.S. Senator Joseph McCarthy of Wisconsin, "McCarthyism" soon took on a broader meaning, describing the excesses of similar efforts. The term is also now used more generally to describe reckless, unsubstantiated accusations, as well as demagogic attacks on the character or patriotism of political adversaries. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism

I'll call it a witch hunt if you feel that's more accurate.

Your region is called NAZI EUROPE and you have the Fascist tag. Explain to me why anyone should believe you're not a Nazi region, especially when you're still as recently as last month engaging in military operations against Communist regions.

I think we've established that you're bent on destroying Nazi Europe because of the name and the tag. I've no doubt you'd also like to eliminate any threat to Antifa & Co. since you're in bed with them. Last I heard, Libertatem was engaged in military operations against Communist regions, and they ain't Nazis.

What NE ops against Communist regions are you talking about again? You mean Tokyo, Groom Lake and Mariner Trench, which we've established were fascist refounds? Of the three regions, only Tokyo had a native presence: me, CR and a couple other 'Nazis'.

I'm glad to hear some UDL members are less than keen on your proposal. I know TITO's Grub had some choice words for UDL moonlighters.

http://10000islands.proboards.com/index ... read=24012

[Pork]

pork,
representative of diol,
is firmly opposed to this resolution. It is clear to us now that the proposer, Cormak Stark, is not a true defender, if he feels that it is right and acceptable to allow raiders into an active region, despite the will of the natives.

This resolution is founded on ideological biggetry and a failure to accept that other people might have a different belief to you. Therefore, I believe that the aims of this proposal are despicable, and, should they come to fruition, would put a blite on the reputation of the world assembly security council.

How can an institution that claims to ensure interregional peace support a resolution aimed at destroying a region?

[Imperium Nova Roma]

As former Fuhrer of Nazi Europe- Laos Refugees, legally named by Oh My Days, I support this decision.

The gov is ran by schemers who were BANNED AND EJECTED due to their trouble rousing ways.

Oust them out.

I seriously laughed at the irony this. You of ALL people. Hahaha.

Tell me, Laos, weren't you ousted after it was discovered your entire reign was just a plot to open NE for invasion? I seem to remember you deleting our forums and everything associated therein.

On a more pertinent note, OPPOSED.

I don't recall anything of that sort.

[The Galactic Commonwealth]

Did you really just list reasons why it shouldn't be liberated, and then say it should?

Again, this isn't really about liberating NAZI EUROPE because it hasn't been invaded. This is about removing its password protection so that it can be invaded. All liberation resolutions are by necessity "Liberate [Region]," but at their core all they do is remove password protection -- usually to prevent continued occupation of a region (or at least make it more difficult), but in this case to enable invasion of the region.

Way to reveal your secret plan four posts into the thread, Doofenschmirtz. ಠ____ಠ

It wasn't exactly a secret, given that the liberation resolution openly states why we would be removing NE's password protection. Is anyone actually reading the resolution?

Yes but if you really want their regime out, it would be much easier to condemn them.

[Dangerbird]

the people of Nazi Europe are actually nice people and great company. i don't think its fair to try and use a defender tool to attack a region that hasn't done much in the past few years. I think this is more of a personal vendetta, Cormac, so please, leave the personal stuff at the door here.

[Everbeek]

Yes but if you really want their regime out, it would be much easier to condemn them.

No. No it is really not. Though I don't agree with what he's doing (though I understand why he's doing it), how he's doing it really is the only way. Condemning them would achieve absolutely nothing.

[Stedicules]

Yes but if you really want their regime out, it would be much easier to condemn them.

No. No it is really not. Though I don't agree with what he's doing (though I understand why he's doing it), how he's doing it really is the only way. Condemning them would achieve absolutely nothing.

its a silly reason. he's so angry at a faceless majority that he tries to go out of his way and draft a resolution that would get rid of them. [edit] what i'm saying above (as dangerbird) is the real nazi europe. everyone else sees us as a evil group of individuals when we're not.

[Imperium Nova Roma]

That's an outright lie; anyone not blinded by McCarthyism can see it. Your proposal is pulp, based entirely on past history—dead and buried—and a delusional assumption that the Nazi will rise again in the region.

You want to kill NE—that much is clear. You tried and failed when you were with Asgard. You were on a McCarthy bandwagon then, and nothing's changed since you joined the UDL.

Maybe you think NE hasn't experienced a change of mind/heart because old Cormac hasn't, yeah? You're not a defender, buddy, or even any recognizable mainstream NS raider. The closest fit I can think of is the MT Army.

NE is minding its own business, discussing American politics on the RMB, and here you come with this reckless claptrap because you can't get over the 'F' word on NationStates. You see any fascist cheerleaders on NE's RMB? Hell, no, but that ain't good enough for you. You're offended by the name and existence of the region. You and other UDL invaders are frustrated that your invasion attempts have been thwarted by a password.

There are five known UDL members actively trying to destroy a founderless region: Cormac Stark, Imperium Nova Roma, Altaggannah, Nullarni and Lowell Leber. I'm posting the TG that German Dragons received mid-August alerting him to an invasion by New Warsaw Pact (NWP). I'm not disclosing the individual who sent it. As far as I'm concerned the NWP is a euphemism for the UDL. The only nations mentioned in the plot are also UDL members: Altaggannah, Nullarni and Lowell Leber.

I am the most inactive UDLer around, ask anyone. Cormac, Uni, etc. I can promise this is more then just politics. My standing as a defender has nothing on how much I'd love to see this pass.

Not only that, I'm ignorant on the subject of "NWP", sorry. You think Cormacs a witch hunter? Then you haven't met me.

Ask somebody.

[The Gregorach]

This is pathetic Cormac. Not that I expected much of you after you betrayed the Imperialist cause and tried to usurp the throne of Asgard. Now you, who now call yourself a defender, want to take the only protection our region has based on your unreasoning hatred of anything you can associate with National Socialism in any way, shape, or form. You are no defender, but a hypocrite, a traitor, and a would-be usurper.

I'm fairly sure that my hatred of National Socialism is fairly reasonable. Also, wub you too.

By the way, who exactly are you in The Land of Kings and Emperors and Kingdom of Denmark, just out of curiosity, and do they know they have a resident of NAZI EUROPE in their region? Athelstan MacGregor, possibly?

Of course they know I'm in NAZI EUROPE. I have been there longer than I have either of the regions in question, and I put it in my citizenship application. I downplayed my role in NE over in the LKE so as to avoid causing problems for the Emperor with allies, particularly when I was active in politics there, but I have never hidden the fact that I am Minister for Propaganda for NAZI EUROPE.

And you bet I'm Athelstan MacGregor. I'm no Nazi, and neither are most if not all the rest of the folks in NAZI EUROPE, Comrade Political Officer.

Also, I was not responsible for the NWP intel. That was somebody else who took offense at your agenda.

[The Great Destruction]

I think after waiting and not getting involved in this proposal it has come time for me to present my 2 cents. We have to ask ourselves:

• Are we willing to wreak havoc on a region of non combatants?
• Do we do this out of some need to defend the world?
• Or are we singling out a community for pursecution just because they have different beleifs?
• In an effort to end fascism would we become fascists ourselves?

If you look at this situation with a cool head I believe that the answer is obvious. I think we would be guilty of perpetrating a massive injustice. And how far would this go? Anyone with enough political clout could be the front man for steam rolling regions that have opposing viewpoints. This resolution spits in the eye of some of the most widely held WA beleifs, such as a right to freedom of speech and the sovereignty of a region to, for the most part, govern themselves. When at first I was tempted to support this resolution, now I can see the intent behind it and it is just that...persecution of the highest form. Nazis, as a rule, don't have many friends to back them up so we have to be careful that we aren't troding on them just because it is easy.

[Jamie Anumia]

I find it disturbing that is proposal is now in quorum. It sets an unbelievably dangerous precedence, natives can't password their own region with the consent of natives without the SC trying to dictate that they can't password their region? Utterly ridiculous proposal. I encourage anyone who believes that natives have the right to decide whether their region is passworded or not to vote against this.
~ WA Ambassador - Treacle Smith ~

[Khanatah]

As already stated, I'm happy to vote in favour of this legislation.

Down with fascism and anti-communism.

[The balkens]

i am sorry i cant vote yes on this.

[Khanatah]

i am sorry i cant vote yes on this. it seemed karma bit them square in the ass

NAZI EUROPE hasn't been invaded. The purpose of this is to ALLOW them to be invaded!

So, if you vote yes on this, we can get to work on making sure Karma does bite them in the ass, finally.

[Shadowlandistan]

Shadowlandistan has voted AGAINST this resolution. Facism is a horrible ideology and should be contained through all diplomatic channels possible.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

Shadowlandistan has voted AGAINST this resolution. Facism is a horrible ideology and should be contained through all diplomatic channels possible.

This resolution allows for NAZI EUROPE's eventual destruction. Why do you oppose it?

[Khanatah]

Shadowlandistan has voted AGAINST this resolution. Facism is a horrible ideology and should be contained through all diplomatic channels possible.

It seems the greatest problem with this legislation is that no one is reading it.

This is meant to open up NAZI EUROPE to invasion. Not liberate them. So, if you want to help contain fascism, please vote in favour!

This act will strike down NAZI EUROPE's password, allowing nations to move in and attack the fascist region!

[Shadowlandistan]

Shadowlandistan has voted against the resolution because military force is not the road we should go down. They should be isolated, not invaded. Shadowlandistan does not support spending billions on military invasions.

[Embry]

The Citizens and Comrades of the the WSSE will vote for the Liberation of Nazi Europe.

If the WA is too keep its word on promoting peace and prosperity, we must get rid of the factors that causes the opposite. Since Nazi Europe is a source of unprovoked violence, this must be stopped.

And if the only issue is that no one is invading, I will make it my personal goal to get as many nations to join in the liberation of Nazi Europe.