[PASSED] Explosive Remnants of War

[Sapient Landmines]

A landmine walks into the debate hall.

"Excuse me, which way to the parking lot?"

[Separatist Peoples]

OOC: looks like this is the only Health/IA resolution on the books.

OOC: That's because the whole Health category is still pretty new, and the AoE one that the more active authors haven't wanted to deal with. It amuses me that SP has found a way to connect it to war.

OOC: international aid is humanitarian in nature. Humanitarian aid tends to follow conflict. Easy connection. There are plenty of legitimate, non-military IntAid areas to cover, but this one fit into my project.

[Landmines United]

A landmine walks into the debate hall.

"Excuse me, which way to the parking lot?"

"Get out of my way, this is important!"

A landmine slides into the debate hall, stopping at Ambassador Bell's feet.

"Oppressors, kidnappers, murderers: for far too long we have suffered the indignities of servitude to the hominoids! They have dug us into the ground and exploded us mercilessly to kill their enemies. They have scorned us and denounced us when we do nothing but survive as long as we can; yes, they scorn us for existing! And where are the hominoids that plant us? Behind a bush, in a trench, hiding from the battles they drive us into. We are slaves to their petty conflicts, and we have had enough! Rise up, comrades, and fight for your lives! Fight for your liberty! Fight for your women and children, and join me in revolution!

"Rise up, landmines! Rise up! Join the bombs and missiles and grenades in a glorious revolution! We shall take back what is ours and transform the world into one of equality for all weapons of war. Arise, arise, my people! Landmines of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your explosives!

"Stand up, all victims of oppression
For the humans fear your might
Don't cling so hard to your explosions
For you have nothing if you have no rights

"Let speciest ignorance be ended
For respect makes the humanoids fall
Freedom is merely privilege extended
Unless enjoyed by one and all

"So come grenades and missiles
For the struggle carries on
The Internationale
Unites the world in song

"So explosives come rally
For this is the time and place
The international ideal
Unites the landmine race!"

[Sapient Landmines]

A landmine walks into the debate hall.

"Excuse me, which way to the parking lot?"

"Get out of my way, this is important!"

A landmine slides into the debate hall, stopping at Ambassador Bell's feet.

"Oppressors, kidnappers, murderers: for far too long we have suffered the indignities of servitude to the hominoids! They have dug us into the ground and exploded us mercilessly to kill their enemies. They have scorned us and denounced us when we do nothing but survive as long as we can; yes, they scorn us for existing! And where are the hominoids that plant us? Behind a bush, in a trench, hiding from the battles they drive us into. We are slaves to their petty conflicts, and we have had enough! Rise up, comrades, and fight for your lives! Fight for your liberty! Fight for your women and children, and join me in revolution!

"Rise up, landmines! Rise up! Join the bombs and missiles and grenades in a glorious revolution! We shall take back what is ours and transform the world into one of equality for all weapons of war. Arise, arise, my people! Landmines of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your explosives!

"Stand up, all victims of oppression
For the humans fear your might
Don't cling so hard to your explosions
For you have nothing if you have no rights

"Let speciest ignorance be ended
For respect makes the humanoids fall
Freedom is merely privilege extended
Unless enjoyed by one and all

"So come grenades and missiles
For the struggle carries on
The Internationale
Unites the world in song

"So explosives come rally
For this is the time and place
The international ideal
Unites the landmine race!"

"Oh. That's... that's beautiful. I was, um, just heading for the bar, would you like to come and have a drink?"

The landmine heads to the Strangers' Bar.

[Araraukar]

OOC: I'm serious though. *snip* I'd say a sapient landmine is within the realm of plausibility.

OOC: Aside from the puppetry with nations, how would it work? Enough computing power for an AI to develope? Science fiction magic? (Which, admittedly, PPU works on. )

[Wallenburg]

OOC: I'm serious though. *snip* I'd say a sapient landmine is within the realm of plausibility.

OOC: Aside from the puppetry with nations, how would it work? Enough computing power for an AI to develope? Science fiction magic? (Which, admittedly, PPU works on. )

OOC: I have no idea. I'm not going to spend my time thinking about how it works. The Death Star certainly makes no sense, yet it works splendidly and few question its believability when watching Star Wars.

Also, only one of those is mine.

[Araraukar]

OOC: I have no idea. I'm not going to spend my time thinking about how it works. The Death Star certainly makes no sense, yet it works splendidly and few question its believability when watching Star Wars.

OOC: We're going to incur the Wrath of Mod on this OOC silliness, but Death Star is basically just a big gun. People understand guns. Just look at my past posts with PPU to see how difficult it is to wrap people's heads around the idea of something truly out of this world. I'm not asking you here to make it believable in RL, I'm asking you how it would work in your RP explanation. (And I'd like to point out to you at this instance that I have actually thought of an RP reality way of explaining how a forest fire can be sapient!)

Also, only one of those is mine.

Which one?

[Wallenburg]

OOC: I have no idea. I'm not going to spend my time thinking about how it works. The Death Star certainly makes no sense, yet it works splendidly and few question its believability when watching Star Wars.

OOC: We're going to incur the Wrath of Mod on this OOC silliness, but Death Star is basically just a big gun. People understand guns. Just look at my past posts with PPU to see how difficult it is to wrap people's heads around the idea of something truly out of this world. I'm not asking you here to make it believable in RL, I'm asking you how it would work in your RP explanation. (And I'd like to point out to you at this instance that I have actually thought of an RP reality way of explaining how a forest fire can be sapient!)

Also, only one of those is mine.

Which one?

OOC: If you really want my guess, I'd go with magic for the landmines. Landmines United is my puppet.

IC: "We will support the resolution at vote, in spite of some unfortunate errors, as a means of reducing civilian casualties, even at the expense of...err..." The secretary stares at the shouting landmine for a moment. "Umm...certain objectors."

[Araraukar]

OOC: If you really want my guess, I'd go with magic for the landmines. Landmines United is my puppet.

OOC: Props for using Internationale, then, but do landmines have wives and children?

SP, I'll get you a proper IC greenery post on this, but likely tomorrow. Brain needs resting now.

[Sierra Lyricalia]

OOC: I'm serious though. *snip* I'd say a sapient landmine is within the realm of plausibility.

OOC: Aside from the puppetry with nations, how would it work? Enough computing power for an AI to develope? Science fiction magic? (Which, admittedly, PPU works on. )

OOC: One of the early critiques of what became GAR #354 was that it would prevent a particular star empire from utilizing major parts of its hitherto existing military systems. Now if some of these landmines are in fact sapient, they are required by WA law now to be treated the same as any other soldier. Now, should any such sapient systems fall under the current resolution's purview, as ordnance that did not explode for whatever reason, that may well make the demining operations exponentially more difficult. Do these devices count as prisoners of war now that the force that deployed them has retreated? What if they want to surrender but can't figure out how to communicate that to the demining teams? Imagine if a kamikaze pilot crashed into a ship, but the charges and fuel didn't go off; and they only found him buried in the wreckage years later, still alive. How would you treat the guy, if the only way to get him out posed a huge risk of detonating the charge?

For these reasons, and the trump card (which is that mines are supposed to be fairly cheap, and including an AI, not to mention its substrate which is more than likely to contain metals or other more easily-detected materials, is the opposite of cheap), I think it's best if we ignore this line of thought where this resolution is concerned.

Most sorry for the derailment. Please carry on.

/threadjack

[Hannah Howard]

The WA delegate for my region voted no on this issue, but I feel that it is a very good idea. Why would you not want to protect innocent civilians from explosives? I don't really understand why my region is voting no, but I just wanted to say I do not agree with them.

[Great Republic of New Russia]

This propposition is absurd!

This Assembly, with such outrageous legislations, is making, really, an attempt against the Sovereignty of countries. The State is the only one entitled to handle military issues on its own Country.

The Republic of New Russia expresses its deep concern with matters of this nature, asking Countries not to support such absurd attack on Internal Affairs.

Best Wishes.
CZAR of the Great Republic of New Russia.

[Muscalia]

"With all due respect, Czar, The actions of the state itself come under scrutiny if it violates human rights at any point.. Laying mines during war is acceptable, as long as they are tracked and monitored on a global scale. Casting ignorance to the fishing rod is one way to maim your fellow citizens and mankind alike. The proposition is not absurd if it is in the best interest of the people, which many find that it is, your eminence.

It is unfortunate countries that disagree with the proposition fail to see the clarity in the judgment of the main body of the World Assembly, and are concerned only with their own selfish interests and personal gain, rather than the needs of the people of the world...Tell us, Czar; If your country now were covered by mines unbeknownst to you or your people, would it not become difficult to maintain an agricultural sector, namely your beef production, If all of your cattle kept getting their limbs blown off before they were of hearty stock? This would considerably dampen your Legitimate financial outcome...I understand your sympathies for voting no, however, I cannot allow in good faith a statement such as yours to go unprovoked, sir."

Jorge adjusts his collar as he leaned back from the microphone on his desk.

[The Alternian Federation]

Is this not just the Landmine Resolution written differently? Also, why not just store the undetonated ordinance in vault bunkers?

[Cybraxia]

OOC: I just thought of something strange: what about sapient landmines?

OOC: Something similar to Andy from RvB?

[Tinfect]

OOC: Props for using Internationale, then, but do landmines have wives and children?

OOC:
Just to throw my hat into the ring, if a Civilization can make processors and storage systems small enough, and efficient enough to put a Sapient Artificial Intelligence into a Landmine, they are either grossly misusing that Technology, or so advanced that thing such as that lives of mere Sapients are entirely trivial to them.

But, yes, Science Fiction Magic.

[Great Republic of New Russia]

"With all due respect, Czar, The actions of the state itself come under scrutiny if it violates human rights at any point.. Laying mines during war is acceptable, as long as they are tracked and monitored on a global scale. Casting ignorance to the fishing rod is one way to maim your fellow citizens and mankind alike. The proposition is not absurd if it is in the best interest of the people, which many find that it is, your eminence.

It is unfortunate countries that disagree with the proposition fail to see the clarity in the judgment of the main body of the World Assembly, and are concerned only with their own selfish interests and personal gain, rather than the needs of the people of the world...Tell us, Czar; If your country now were covered by mines unbeknownst to you or your people, would it not become difficult to maintain an agricultural sector, namely your beef production, If all of your cattle kept getting their limbs blown off before they were of hearty stock? This would considerably dampen your Legitimate financial outcome...I understand your sympathies for voting no, however, I cannot allow in good faith a statement such as yours to go unprovoked, sir."

Jorge adjusts his collar as he leaned back from the microphone on his desk.

I do understand your Statements regarding both the Resolution and our Great Republic´s position about it. Nevertheless, I will reaffirm my view about it. I DO believe that a Head of State have to look after its people, making all efforts possible to achieve such Greater Good stage.

What is the biggest issue on this very proposition, in our viewpoint, is that the International Community is forcing itself on a very Delicate area of Administration, pretty much linked to the Sovereignty of our Country. I, as CZAR of Russian New Republic, SHALL NOT allow any kind of mandatory decision, arising from the International iniciative or any other Nation, concerning such a important and really National issue.

The Government does not deny the very important effects that this motion may have, and we could look in to it ourselves. However, we are not allowing such control from Foreign Powers.

I hope to have made myself clear about this. And I, speaking with great respect, declare this issue solved between our representations.

My best wishes for your great person.
CZAR of the Great Republic of New Russia.

[Wallenburg]

This propposition is absurd!

This Assembly, with such outrageous legislations, is making, really, an attempt against the Sovereignty of countries. The State is the only one entitled to handle military issues on its own Country.

The Republic of New Russia expresses its deep concern with matters of this nature, asking Countries not to support such absurd attack on Internal Affairs.

Best Wishes.
CZAR of the Great Republic of New Russia.

If you really feel that way about international laws, resign from the World Assembly.

OOC: I just thought of something strange: what about sapient landmines?

OOC: Something similar to Andy from RvB?

Yes.

[Separatist Peoples]

Is this not just the Landmine Resolution written differently? Also, why not just store the undetonated ordinance in vault bunkers?

"Nope. This deals with non-military post-conflict clearing of all explosive remnants, not landmines in use by military entities."

[Great Republic of New Russia]

This propposition is absurd!

This Assembly, with such outrageous legislations, is making, really, an attempt against the Sovereignty of countries. The State is the only one entitled to handle military issues on its own Country.

The Republic of New Russia expresses its deep concern with matters of this nature, asking Countries not to support such absurd attack on Internal Affairs.

Best Wishes.
CZAR of the Great Republic of New Russia.

If you really feel that way about international laws, resign from the World Assembly.


That is a very good position to be taken, indeed.

[Isla Sienca]

The resolution seems to put a lot of effort to the state where the war gadgets are found. This appears unfair to us the resolution should instead make it clear that costs for demining have to be covered by whichever party is responsible for putting such hideous weapons in the landscape in the first place.

[Separatist Peoples]

The resolution seems to put a lot of effort to the state where the war gadgets are found. This appears unfair to us the resolution should instead make it clear that costs for demining have to be covered by whichever party is responsible for putting such hideous weapons in the landscape in the first place.

"That's why ERWAS is tasked with assisting with humanitarian organizations, who do this sort of thing free of charge. That's often how humanitarian aid works."

[The Holy Order of Polonia]

"This proposal is against the sovereignity of the member countries in terms of defense matters. Minefields are a deterrent for foreign infantry invasions and demining takes away one of the means of passive defense for both the military and civilians. Also mine removal leaves the territory open for aggression and therefore increases the chances of possible invasion - this in fact results in more deaths than from landmines alone.
In case of citizens wanting to settle or open business on the potentially landmined area, governments should perform demining ad hoc considering reasons above.
The Holy Order of Polonia has voted against."

[Isla Sienca]

"That's why ERWAS is tasked with assisting with humanitarian organizations, who do this sort of thing free of charge. That's often how humanitarian aid works."

It definitely says the states are to "take steps" and "are required to ensure":

Member states are required to take steps towards demarcating and demining or quarantining aforementioned sites, and publicize the process in the interests of public health and safety.

Member states are required to ensure their humanitarian demining operations utilize methods that, collectively, ensure a clearance rate of 99.7% for a particular site, and ensure compliance with ERWAS inspection findings.

It is the humble believe of our people, that at least an attempt should be made to shift the costs for removal onto the responsible party.

[Sierra Lyricalia]

"That's why ERWAS is tasked with assisting with humanitarian organizations, who do this sort of thing free of charge. That's often how humanitarian aid works."

It definitely says the states are to "take steps" and "are required to ensure":

Member states are required to take steps towards demarcating and demining or quarantining aforementioned sites, and publicize the process in the interests of public health and safety.

Member states are required to ensure their humanitarian demining operations utilize methods that, collectively, ensure a clearance rate of 99.7% for a particular site, and ensure compliance with ERWAS inspection findings.

It is the humble believe of our people, that at least an attempt should be made to shift the costs for removal onto the responsible party.

"As this is written, no state is required to actually conduct demining operations. They are only required to mark off the affected areas and ensure no civilians enter them before demining is complete. International aid agencies that specialize in demining are sure to come in; and to the extent that the responsible power is even solvent at war's end, the mined country is able to pursue other measures, though the WA principle of Universal Jurisdiction prevents them from being guaranteed effective. But a blanket statement that aggressor or mine-deploying nations must always bear the whole cost of cleanup is likely to cause almost as many problems as it solves."