The World Cup Discussion Thread (OOC, Version IV)

[Equestrian States]

*snip*

As the previous long-time rank-keeper, I'd support the removal of Crystilakere from the HoF, given the result of the EWCC vote. However, I would very strongly oppose the removal of Vilita and/or Turori from the HoF. If you must do something, add an asterisk and note.

[Tumbra]

I'm with you on the Vil/Tur's HoF status, EQS. As for Alasdair, I'd like to see if there's more appetite for a formal vote amongst the EWCC before proceeding.

[Delaclava]

After looking at the SRS data, I see that with the vacation of Crystilakere's WC19 title, Ravenspire would have had the most points after WC31, when Crystilakere was inducted. It is apparent that there was no activity requirement as of WC31 because Crystilakere was not active at the time.

I believe that Crystilakere's removal from the Hall of Fame is the natural consequence of the title being stripped, and does not require an additional vote. I would opt to remove HoF membership if such a vote does happen.

EDIT: I would not be in favor of a replacement induction. This is because, regardless of whether there was an activity requirement, the nation that would have been inducted after WC31 would have been one who was inducted in a later cycle (New Montreal States, Dance 2 Revolution, Kaze Progressa, and The Belmore Family were all tied at 23 points; the first two rostered in WC31). There is no need to go through the complicated process of working out a new chain of inductions, in my opinion.

I am undecided on whether Vilita and Turori should remain in the HoF (leaning for), but I believe they absolutely should keep it, unasterisked, until a vote on that specific issue is taken. I am not moving for such a vote at this time.

[Mertagne]

I will also be stripping the HoF membership of Crystilakere.

I accept that this would appear to be a logical consequence of the recent vote, and happily acknowledge that the decision has been made as a good faith response to that vote, but I would feel more comfortable if this was explicitly put up for an EWCC vote rather than being undertaken unilaterally.

I decided, based on this comment and some others, to run the numbers using the HoF sheet (by deleting all the results from World Cup 31 onwards and pasting them back into the sheet one by one, then sorting by points) to determine if Crystilakere would have received World Cup Hall of Fame membership if the WC19 title had not been won by them. They would not gain membership in the cycle that it was originally given to them, and they would also not gain membership in any cycle after that, as they have too few Hall of Fame points. The WCHoF continues exactly as it did in our timeline from World Cup 66 onwards.

Based on that knowledge, I am in favour of stripping Crystilakere's Hall of Fame membership as without their (now rescinded) World Cup victory it would not have been gained.

[Al-Tamazgha]

Most of achievements made by Vilita (nation) and Turori (nation) were well after the original period of violation. Because of that, I don't see why their HoF membership would be in question.

[Graintfjall]

I don't see the point of a vote. Crystalcantspelltheirname were given the HoF status for achieving something and we've just voted (me in the minority against FWIW) for removing recognition of the achievement, so, as I believe it was Shaw, or perhaps Wilde, once said, "no duh".

Ronaldo is A$$

Amid this moment of community division, I appreciate those seeking to find consensus on which we can all agree.

[Diarcesia]

Ronaldo is A$$

Amid this moment of community division, I appreciate those seeking to find consensus on which we can all agree.

Messi > Ronaldo

[Sarzonia]

Crystilakere should be removed from the Hall of Fame, no ifs, ands or buts about it. I would not support a replacement for the World Cup 19 cycle, just note that the Hall of Fame berth for the cycle is declared VACATED.

Personally, I'd be all for removing Vilita and Turori from the Hall of Fame as purely a punitive measure for the unprecedented nature of their crimes against the community. HOWEVER, in light of both countries earning enough SQS points after the period being investigated (World Cup 28 on), if given the opportunity to vote, I would formally vote in favour of allowing VilTur to remain in the Hall of Fame. I would support an asterisk by both countries' entries.

If it turns out he broke rules beyond the period originally in question, we should be open to revisit his future in the Hall with either country.

EDIT: I will note that I will ICly go scorched Earth on VilTur as I already have with World Cup championships. That's consistent with how I RP Sarzonia. OOCly, however, I'm willing to wait and see if it becomes necessary to revisit the decision in the future.

[Equestrian States]

On the topic of if there should be a vote, I personally don't see the need for one. The Hall of Fame has never been formally affiliated with the WCC, and is largely left up to whichever senior member of the community happens to be the active curator. For example, when I made an adjustment to the rankings formula to give WC co-hosts an additional point, or when we've had the occasional special inductee. As curator, I sought and listened to the input of the community, but I don't believe any formal vote is necessary at this time, so long as there is a general consensus on how to proceed.

[Alasdair I Frosticus]

For what it's worth, if there's no appetite for a formal vote over the HoF, then I'm satisfied that - whatever my own thoughts on the issue - there's at least now been a broader discussion that seems to be showing a clear consensus in favour of taking that step.

Personally, I'd be all for removing Vilita and Turori from the Hall of Fame as purely a punitive measure for the unprecedented nature of their crimes against the community.

“I turn my body from the sun. What ho, Tashtego! let me hear thy hammer. Oh! ye three unsurrendered spires of mine; thou uncracked keel; and only god-bullied hull; thou firm deck, and haughty helm, and Pole-pointed prow,- death- glorious ship! must ye then perish, and without me? Am I cut off from the last fond pride of meanest shipwrecked captains? Oh, lonely death on lonely life! Oh, now I feel my topmost greatness lies in my topmost grief. Ho, ho! from all your furthest bounds, pour ye now in, ye bold billows of my whole foregone life, and top this one piled comber of my death! Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering whale; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell’s heart I stab at thee; for hate’s sake I spit my last breath at thee. Sink all coffins and all hearses to one common pool! and since neither can be mine, let me then tow to pieces, while still chasing thee, though tied to thee, thou damned whale!"

[Milchama]

Hall of Fame rank-keeper here.

For now, I am inclined towards letting Vilita and Turori retaining their membership of the HoF. Any dissenting opinions may be expressed here. The data may be viewed here.

Thanks,

Tumbra

I think Vilita and Turori should stay in the Hall of Fame. What the user did has no bearing on the success of those nations. Also, we just had a whole vote about what to do and the Hall of Fame never came up meaning that we, as a community, clearly did not care.

[Sylestone]

With the final 32 being decided, the updated pots and schedule is now in the OP of the RP thread! The draw will take place live on Discord at 11pm UTC on the 3rd of December (ie roughly 62 hours from now), and will be posted shortly afterwards. Matchday 1 is scheduled for the 9th of December UTC time, starting with Chromatika's cutoff.

[Sea Dome]

I don't think anyone is really an Ahab figure here. The community seems rather even-handed, not entirely going any one person's way.

As far as IC/RP matters go, I'm verklempt- the Lemon Sharks went 7-3-4 in the first SD WCQ! There are no words for how that feels. Thank you to everyone reading and/or participating in my RPs, thanks to all players for a heck of a fun tournament, and onward, to 48! I have no idea if I'm being considered for the CoH but between that, IBC, IBS, the upcoming Arrosia football regionals, and domestic soccer and hockey, etc, all storylines and politics RPs will be completed in due time.

Those in the know, also know that further new-sport developments are coming after the conclusion of Tallball.

[Delaclava]

Some Cup of Harmony notes:

- The field of 32 is set, and Matchday 1 will take place on Saturday, December 9 at 0200 UTC - which is Friday, December 8 at 9:00 PM US Eastern. That is about 98.5 hours from the time of this post. The group draw will be added to the IC thread in about 24 hours, and IC information will be posted around the same time.

- If you were not invited this time, you are welcome to reach out to me by TG or Discord DM if you have any questions or concerns. As with every edition, who is and isn't invited to the CoH often comes down to some close judgment calls so I cannot do much to provide any comparative information, but I am happy to give you specific feedback about your own RPing. (And for any user here, I am always open to provide perspectives and help with your RPing!)

- For future editions: Invitees are entitled to take as much time as they are given and genuinely need to decide whether they will accept the invitation. However, out of respect to your fellow users and your hosts, please do not delay in notifying your hosts once you know your decision, particularly if you know you are going to reject. This allows other users to receive invitations and for the competition to start in a timely manner.

[Valentine Z]

Might send a TG if that's fine. ♥

[Alasdair I Frosticus]

I don't think anyone is really an Ahab figure here

Yes, well. That's the joy of literary criticism; several different interpretations of the same work are always possible.

And Moby DIck has long been one of my favourite books.

[Delaclava]

Congratulations to our Cup of Harmony winner! And a thank you to all the participants.

I always enjoy hosting this tournament, and I understand that the CoH is unique both in its uncertain role in the WCC cycle, and in the amount of discretion that hosts have in setting the field. With the cycle winding down, I welcome any questions and thoughts people have, and as I said when I first won the hosting rights, I hope we can continue to have productive discussions about the future of the tournament.

[Sarzonia]

I remember someone suggesting their problem with the Cup of Harmony being difficulty in explaining why they might be in the Cup of Harmony if it's based on best roleplayers instead of highest ranked teams to miss the proper or teams who lose out on points.

Perhaps one justification might be something along the lines of prestige or ability or willingness of supporters to travel to support their team. The best RL example I can offer is NCAA Division 1 Bowl games. A bowl might pass up a 10-win team from the Sun Belt in favour of a seven-win team from the SEC not because the SEC team's any better, but perhaps because their fan base is more likely to sell out their allotment of tickets and carries a bigger name that'll get more people watching on the tele.

Granted, on its own, a 5-0-9 team qualifying for the Cup of Harmony might seem odd, but a CoH selection committee might be swayed by better form in the second half of qualifying or by tradition the team brings to the table. Or perhaps the longtime relationship between the countries plays a role.

As for specifics about the Cup of Harmony in general, some of that's already been argued about and likely will continue to be, especially if the NSWC goes to 48 teams. I still think the Cup of Harmony has an important role to play among WCC-sanctioned events.

[United Hawkland]

great job hosting, Del!

[Commonwealth of Baker Park]

Congratulations to the winners, commiserations to the others in the SF/F phase. And to make my position perfect clear, well done Del on hosting. I will make a further statement in the near future, but I apologize if I gave any impression that I had an issue with the host.

EDIT: also congrats/comms to our New World Cup Overlords!
And Tumbra, our New Hall of Fame inductee!

[Al-Tamazgha]

Congratulations and Commiserations.

A job nicely done for all three tournaments' (co-)hosts. They all deserve great praise.

[Farfadillis]

Post-WC95 SRS+ rankings update is now available

Key: 7 points for winning the World Cup. 6 points for second place. 5 points for third place. 4 points for fourth place. 3 points for elimination in the quarterfinals. 2 points for elimination in the second round. 1 point for elimination in the group stage. 1 additional point for co-hosting World Cup finals. At the end of each cycle, the nation with the most points not yet inducted into the Hall of Fame is inducted. Should they be inactive, they must be at least five or more points ahead of any active nations, classified as having rostered for the most recent World Cup cycle; otherwise the active nation is inducted.

The nation with the most points not yet in the World Cup Nations' Hall of Fame following World Cup 95 is, as usual, Vephrall, with their also usual 24 points they had already finished amassing by World Cup 52. Unfortunately for Bedistan's second incarnation, their thirteen years of inactivity mean that Tumbra, an active nation on 20 points after their fantastic performance this cycle, gets inducted instead. Welcome to the Hall of Fame, Tumbra; you hold the honor of being the WC95 inductee.

Congratulations, Tumbra!

If you catch any potential errors, please shoot me a TG or PM so I can fix them (but it's Tumbra's fault).

---

Tumbra

Previous Appearances: 7 First/Latest Appearance: 89/95 Best Result: Runners-up (95)
Manager: Michael Campbell Key Player: Trudy Harrison
SRS points: 20 from 7 appearances

---

A FEDERAL PARLIAMENTARY REPUBLIC LOCATED IN SOUTHEASTERN ESPORTIVA, the small (just about 126 million people) nation's rapid rise through the footballing ranks has not been without hiccoughs; since first making the World Cup in its 89th edition (not 79th; get your facts straight), the nations has been putting in, for the most part, solid performance after solid performance, though with highs and lows; this cycle in particular being their highest high so far, as a fateful coin toss let them escape their group, before finding form and making it all the way to the final, narrowly losing out on extra time. Arguably best recognized for their most famous and legendary player, Trudy Harrison, who breaks the mold by letting her high-profile boyfriend be defined through his relationship with herself rather than the other way around, Tumbra are an enviably stable nation where nothing that bad ever happens. Except ruthless imperialism in the Tumbran Northlands and Trudy Harrison's dad being a bit of a wretch. I mean, they export semiconductors, for crying out loud! They also are really important in keeping the Eagle's Cup (RIP) alive in the form of the newly-minted International Confederations Cup.

With their grip over the Esportivan footballing scene so tight they had to let go of it a little bit—to the point their own colonial project even won an edition of the Campionato Esportiva—it is safe to say every nation in the Multiverse should fear the Black Eagles going forward, as they have now made a big statement on their intent to turn their sights to the Multiverse's greatest football trophy. Psephology in one hand, coin in the other, they are surely among the most likely nations to join the World Cup winners' club next.

[Sarzonia]

Congrats to Delte on the win, commisserations to everyone else, and congrats to the hosts on jobs well done!

[Audioslavia]

Congratulations to Delte on a thoroughly deserved World Cup win, commiserations to Tumbra (but welcome to the Hall of Fame!)

Those of you with long memories may recall that President Ko-oren put together a team last year to propose an alternative to the KPB Rankings. We're finally ready to hit you with a 40-page PDF document that will go into detail about how the system currently works and the changes we have proposed to optimise it for the modern era.

Our proposed changes would require a vote (tentatively set for post-WC96) to actually go through and would be implemented post-WC97 at the very earliest, so please don't worry about missing anything important over the festive period. Indeed, the document is 14,000 words long so if you need something to read on a train or plane over Christmas, we've got you covered.

We'll be adding finishing touches over the next few days and dropping it on Saturday (touch wood).

[Bears Armed]

Indeed, the document is 14,000 words long so if you need something to read on a train or plane over Christmas, we've got you covered.

If that passage is typical of your writing then you're averaging slightly over 5 characters per word, so your "14,000 words" probably would be at least 70'000 characters... which would be equivalent to fourteen maximum-length WA resolutions. Is that much really necessary?!

_______________________________________________________________________

My belated apologies to everybody involved for the lack of RP posts during the WC95 qualifiers: That was due to the combination of various RL factors, including low-level but persistent bad health, and feeling a bit more burnt-out with NS as a whole than I'd previously expected... There was actually a complete fortnight when I didn't log in to this nation, or even look at it, at all!