Global Economics and Trade Help Desk and Q&A

[Maltropia]

Question: Subsidiaries? What should be the best course of action in this point? I was considering adding more small arms to my storefront, but don't like the idea of "one company makes all things in armaments" kind of storefront. I was considering making a subsidiary, but I am divided whether to make a separate storefront for it or incorporate the subsidiary into my storefront. Which one I should choose, and what would you recommend in this case?

There's arguments for and against splitting your company. On the for side, it's more real-world plausible that you'd split it up, and it lets you develop a more targeted brand image: not "War Stuff Co.? Don't they do guns too? Nah.", but "Oh hey, Small Arms Ltd.. They make what we need."

Against that are some of the more practical considerations. You're almost certainly going to get more traffic through a single storefront with more products, as long as it's abundantly clear that you do both ranges. It's also easier to coordinate. Of course, you might end up with too much in your catalogue for people to filter through, and end up reserving too many posts to work with.

If you want to make a subsidiary, I'd recommend you give it a separate thread and make sure it has enough of a catalogue to stand up on its own. I recently set up my own subsidiary (naval wing of my civilian shipwright) but, since its products are only coming in one at a time and it's rather specialised in combat support, it remains part of the main storefront and it's only separated for when I take orders. In the mainstream weapons trade, there's more room to manoeuvre and not worry that your storefront will be too niche.

So, as I say, I'd go with yes and make a subsidiary with its own thread. Be consistent, though. Maybe include semi-prominent "A subsidiary of ___" and "For small arms, see our subsidiary, ___"; and keeping a similar storefront design, layout and colour scheme goes a long way to making your storefronts seem related.

Do whatever you feel like doing; there's no rules or guidelines that say you can not do this or do that

I'll keep that in mind next time I get an urge to walk on my hands through town, wearing nothing but underwear and a towel and holding a flag between my teeth.

[Nachmere]

i think the subsidiary question depends on the amount of products. if you only have 2-3 products for that "brand" right now, i would keep it in your current store. at some point like maltropia mentioned you have too many products for one store and than it becomes very hard to navigate(this is starting to happen to me).

[Stormwrath]

So, as I say, I'd go with yes and make a subsidiary with its own thread. Be consistent, though. Maybe include semi-prominent "A subsidiary of ___" and "For small arms, see our subsidiary, ___"; and keeping a similar storefront design, layout and colour scheme goes a long way to making your storefronts seem related.

Okay, thank you for that answer. However, I was thinking of having a slightly different color scheme for my subsidiary, since I was planning on my main storefront to retain its current scheme. My main storefront has the indigo color scheme, but I was envisioning my subsidiary storefront to have a metallic blue and gray color scheme. I may be using the same layout and design for my subsidiary to make it similar to my main storefront.

Also, another question. What about other products? It's because I have visited some defense contractors' websites to see how they promote their products, and I have noticed that a couple of them make products other than arms. Lockheed Martin for example, does biometrics and cloud computing. Is it alright to branch out into other ventures as long as they are related to my storefront's main venture?

i think the subsidiary question depends on the amount of products. if you only have 2-3 products for that "brand" right now, i would keep it in your current store. at some point like maltropia mentioned you have too many products for one store and than it becomes very hard to navigate(this is starting to happen to me).

Well, I have been considering adding a lot more small arms to my storefront right now, but I have thought to myself that it wouldn't be what I would desire for it. I was envisioning that my main storefront sells the armored vehicles, aerospace craft and surface/orbital defenses while my subsidiary sells small arms.

[Nachmere]

its all up to you. we are in a world of compromises with the code...

[Maltropia]

Okay, thank you for that answer. However, I was thinking of having a slightly different color scheme for my subsidiary, since I was planning on my main storefront to retain its current scheme. My main storefront has the indigo color scheme, but I was envisioning my subsidiary storefront to have a metallic blue and gray color scheme. I may be using the same layout and design for my subsidiary to make it similar to my main storefront.

Go for it. It was just an example and a suggestion for keeping the same aesthetic, but going with a different colour scheme in the same framework is always interesting. I myself have done it on this WIP storefront, just so you see how it can look.

Also, another question. What about other products? It's because I have visited some defense contractors' websites to see how they promote their products, and I have noticed that a couple of them make products other than arms. Lockheed Martin for example, does biometrics and cloud computing. Is it alright to branch out into other ventures as long as they are related to my storefront's main venture?

Absolutely. So many major companies these days have hugely diversified portfolios, no one'll stop you from selling retro skateboards on the side with your 8th-generation fighters.

[Yohannes]

You are asking questions that don't matter at the end of the day

If you are worried about having many customers, it doesn't matter whether you split your storefronts or not. You will get many customers either way if you know many people or have connections here, there, and further down the road as well. It's about who you know, not what you have on your thread. What you have on your fictional business page? You can always modify them by using trial and error process. Fix it as you go along the whole thing; that was how I built my bank, stock exchange, fictional arms business up to today

You can compress your storefront into one consolidated thread but at the end of the day if you don't know anyone (outside Global Economics & Trade forum) it will be a dead thread

Sorry for being direct. Sometimes it is needed to bring us all to reality \\___(^__^)___//

there I put a smiley

Edit: and never try to copy the format of other fictional business owners (that the market you are trying to enter); for not only would it distract you from eventually developing your own fictional business writing style... but the other players might not like it (a lot of sensitive players out there it seems hehe)

[Yohannes]

Do whatever you feel like doing; there's no rules or guidelines that say you can not do this or do that

I'll keep that in mind next time I get an urge to walk on my hands through town, wearing nothing but underwear and a towel and holding a flag between my teeth.

Gameplay is very much integrated with roleplay these days; every Jack and Jill use their fourth or fifth alt accounts (not even 2nd... mind you) these days to hide their identity. I have seen a few well known Gameplay individuals hiding behind their alts posting round the diplomacy forums for quite some time already. I have no doubt there are more I have not come across

heck, one or two are in my own region and prob more that I dont know yet

In a situation or playing environment like that (dirty mind you but inevitable considering theres no sort of a full on Roleplaying punishment against that)... you can't seriously believe any single player (or a group of players rather) out there can 'impose' (or try to impose) their own version of whats right and whats wrong?

The only way to figure out whether somethings real or not these days is to look at whether that account has World Assembly logo imprinted on the right side of the account page. and whether the other ppl u roleplay with have that too. at least u will know no one is multying (because even puppet wankers wouldn't want to have themselves multi banned from the game for silly storytelling)

[Yohannes]

for the benefit of the people who are starting up their new storefronts (not the regulars of Global Economics & Trade) I can make a kinda up to the point TL;DR post that I can confidently make out of my somewhat in depth (big words boy) research and analysis into the changing demographics and player trend of the diplomacy forums

if u are the type of whoa re worrying about 'where can I get customers from left an right I see dead threads round me and no one bother posting in GE&T'

suffice to say this process did start back in 2012 and is now in full swing. If your not well acquainted with the new world regions (aka regions with players who don't regularly post on the official NationStates [diplomacy] forums, and pretty much are ambivalent/don't take seriously things happening on the diplomacy side of the official NationStates forums) yet then it's time for u to abandon ur quest to attach urself too much to the old communities and branch urself out. because that is where the gold and profit will be for not just ur fictional business thread, but also almost every other fictional things out there that you want to roleplay

whether it is: ur interactions with new allies, new close trade partners, new OOC friends, new networking, new people to write with, new group of writers to make threads with, etc.

edit: for the benefit of people

old world regions: regions that used to have regular presence here (the diplomacy forums)
new world regions: the regions with people u should really start to look up to and get to know since 2 years ago

[Vermark]

for the benefit of the people who are starting up their new storefronts (not the regulars of Global Economics & Trade) I can make a kinda up to the point TL;DR post that I can confidently make out of my somewhat in depth (big words boy) research and analysis into the changing demographics and player trend of the diplomacy forums

if u are the type of whoa re worrying about 'where can I get customers from left an right I see dead threads round me and no one bother posting in GE&T'

suffice to say this process did start back in 2012 and is now in full swing. If your not well acquainted with the new world regions (aka regions with players who don't regularly post on the official NationStates [diplomacy] forums, and pretty much are ambivalent/don't take seriously things happening on the diplomacy side of the official NationStates forums) yet then it's time for u to abandon ur quest to attach urself too much to the old communities and branch urself out. because that is where the gold and profit will be for not just ur fictional business thread, but also almost every other fictional things out there that you want to roleplay

whether it is: ur interactions with new allies, new close trade partners, new OOC friends, new networking, new people to write with, new group of writers to make threads with, etc.

edit: for the benefit of people

old world regions: regions that used to have regular presence here (the diplomacy forums)
new world regions: the regions with people u should really start to look up to and get to know since 2 years ago

What are you trying to say? Are you saying that more RPing is happening on off-site forums? I realize you were trying to simplify things, but I'm not really understanding what you're trying to say.

[Yohannes]

I am trying to say if ur the type who are worrying too much bout getting new fictional customers for ur fictional business thread then I'll post the result of my observation and analysis as I have said above

if u are not the type who worry too much about having a dead (or very inactive) GE&T thread (and you are the type who care more about what u have on your storefront page instead of getting to know new potential customers) then yeah it shouldn't matter at the end of the day.

[Neu Engollon]

robble robble robble

What are you trying to say? Are you saying that more RPing is happening on off-site forums? I realize you were trying to simplify things, but I'm not really understanding what you're trying to say.

Yes! What exactly are you trying to say, Yohannes? What is simple and helpful about all this contradictory rambling, and why is it taking multiple posts to do it? Why do you feel so qualified to give out such advice, and in the same posts say that what everyone else is trying to impart to Stormwrath isn't all that accurate or important?

What the hell do 'secret Gameplayers' have to do with Maltropia's response and your earlier whimsical 'do whatever you want and be happy' statement?

I would have more to say but you have put yourself on display and let that flag fly, taking care of most of the work and making anything more I might add redundant. Thanks for that.

[Yohannes]

Yes! What exactly are you trying to say, Yohannes?

Well, since the guy was asking whats the best way to attract customers for his storefront, thought I might offer my advice

What is simple and helpful about all this contradictory rambling, and why is it taking multiple posts to do it?

because left and right I see no one realising it. It's pretty funny also when those who don't realise it are the ones who are going left and right trying to give advice based on outdated method or things

Why do you feel so qualified to give out such advice

Did I say I am the most 'qualified' (your word not mine) people around here?

No.

In fact, Stormwrath did not even quoted my post back, which indicate that he did not even think of my post as that important to the wellbeing and activity of his fictional business thread

and, I am curious. How did you form the opinion that I am 'so qualified to give out such advice'? I believe I have never said I am the most qualified player 'round here

and in the same posts say that what everyone else is trying to impart to Stormwrath isn't all that accurate or important?

Where did I say that..? I am especially referring to this part of your post: 'that what everyone else is trying to impart to... isn't all that accurate or important'

Point me out to my sentence where I have said that.

Point it to me. Now.

What the hell do 'secret Gameplayers' have to do with Maltropia's response and your earlier whimsical 'do whatever you want and be happy' statement?

Wow. I am amazed you still did not get what I was trying to say. Here, let me explain very easily then

You can create three liner storefronts and it can still be more active than the storefront of someone who make 100,000,000 words opening post of a storefront.

Whether you divide your fictional subsidiaries into different threads and have people posting on different storefront pages. Or perhaps you want to combine all your subsidiaries into one single huge storefront page?

It will not matter at all. Your thread will still be dead, and you can still B.U.M.P. it all day and all night long till you are giving up. It will still be a dead thread or be a very inactive thread if:

1. You don't know many of the actually active people outside Global Economics & Trade forum
2. You don't branch out from your own region, and the regions that are inactive these days
3. You don't try to get to know as many people out there
4. You don't have friends who have multiple alt accounts who can bump your storefront

You can divide your fictional business into multiple threads, and people will still order there if they like you or they are familiar with your name. And of course if you are willing to promote your fictional business thread to these people

I would have more to say but you have put yourself on display and let that flag fly,

I don't understand? It seems you are referring to something that I don't even understand about here. So kindly inform me as it seems I have missed something

taking care of most of the work and making anything more I might add redundant. Thanks for that.

? this is so weird lol

[Yohannes]

robble robble robble

and that is quite provocative tbh

to be honest, it's clear you are trying to offend me with that 'robble robble robble' statement. But I can care no less?

Trying to offend someone without debating properly is what someone who don't know much will try to do. Just like what you did there

I don't see your [many badly made] storefronts as being that active, without the constant spams of bump bump bump. You shouldn't be the person who try to push your weight around here; not saying, of course, that you are trying to do that to me

I quite simply feel you are trying to tell me you are more superior than me with your post above [or at least I get that feeling from reading your post above]. Correct me if I am wrong, Mr Neu Engollon

[Vermark]

Yohannes, whether you are right or wrong, you still are making no sense. If the GE&T forum is a bad place for storefronts, where else are we supposed to post storefronts? Regional forums? Private websites? You seem to me rambling about something, but I have no idea what it is.

[Yohannes]

Yohannes, whether you are right or wrong, you still are making no sense. If the GE&T forum is a bad place for storefronts, where else are we supposed to post storefronts? Regional forums? Private websites? You seem to me rambling about something, but I have no idea what it is.

Where did I say [quote here]GE&T forum is a bad place for storefronts[quote ends]?

What

[Vermark]

Yohannes, whether you are right or wrong, you still are making no sense. If the GE&T forum is a bad place for storefronts, where else are we supposed to post storefronts? Regional forums? Private websites? You seem to me rambling about something, but I have no idea what it is.

Where did I say [quote here]GE&T forum is a bad place for storefronts[quote ends]?

What

"if u are not the type who worry too much about having a dead (or very inactive) GE&T thread (and you are the type who care more about what u have on your storefront page instead of getting to know new potential customers) then yeah it shouldn't matter at the end of the day."

Sounds like you're saying that GE&T is a place for dead threads. Which is bad.

[Yohannes]

No....

haha sorry, my fault I guess I could have been more serious (instead of so easy going/casual... as I am always these days)

I will clarify: there are very few threads in Global Economics & Trade today that are still getting regular posters. And if you will check the customers of these few storefronts... almost always the customers are people from outside Global Economics & Trade forum. A lot of them are also not old regular posters... but new posters who are more active with regional (Gameplay) stuff outside the official NationStates forums

Do they roleplay then? Yes, they do. But not on the official NationStates forums. Guess where do these [your target customers] peeps storytell/write/roleplay in?

[Maltropia]

I don't know whether they're mostly non-RPers' puppets posting. I only see one customer whose background I'm not certain of on my shipwrights storefront, and I see a lot of other committed roleplayers as the main customers on other threads - granted they're mostly 2014/'15 nations who I don't know, but they also have post counts ranging from hundreds to thousands so I don't think I entirely believe that they've abandoned NS-side roleplay, either.

And quite honestly, whether people roleplay on or off NS forums shouldn't matter for GE&T, since no offsite forum is ever going to replace this subforum as the centre of business. It's one thing to move all your roleplay offsite, where you can pick who you interact with and limit it to your region, your friends, your clique or whatever, but if you run a storefront as a storefront - that is, for customers - then this is the only place you'll get good traffic. I admit I'm not privy to the goings-on in, say, the Pacific's OSF, but I don't think I'm wrong to say most RP regions just don't have the scale to match GE&T's traffic.

Just to address this line - "almost always the customers are people from outside Global Economics & Trade forum" - for a sec; only a handful of NS RPers have made their names here rather than elsewhere. I didn't start out a GE&Ter myself, but I think this is probably the place I'm best known if anywhere. Who's to say people can't become GE&Ters?

Anyway, I don't really think this is the thread to go off on this sort of tangent or to rail against (or in support of) the Ancien Régime, and it's probably best we don't get into any arguments in here when people have legitimate questions that don't require fisticuffs to resolve.

[Yohannes]

First of all, I want to say Maltropia's right; I was a bit taken off (from the discussion we are meant to have here) when I saw Neu Engollon's post. And I would like to apologise for that mistake (I just feel I had to defend myself after reading that guy's post). Another thing was I guess he had a point. I was too casual (not serious) and as a result people didn't get what I was trying to point out. I guess I should sit back and listen too sometimes. So I guess Neu Engollon do have a point (is right in a way) after all

[ Edit: I would like to apologise to Neu Engollon for my harsh words above. I could have worded it more nicely or not said all those things. But I am a transparent and honest person, and so I will not edit my post out to show that I do make mistakes when I should have known better ]

I don't know whether they're mostly non-RPers' puppets posting. I only see one customer whose background I'm not certain of on my shipwrights storefront, and I see a lot of other committed roleplayers as the main customers on other threads - granted they're mostly 2014/'15 nations who I don't know, but they also have post counts ranging from hundreds to thousands so I don't think I entirely believe that they've abandoned NS-side roleplay, either.

Some of them are alt accounts. Some of them are not alt accounts. We may never know; but from what we can tell from looking at their number of forum posts... they don't post on the official NationStates forums. I initially thought that these one-two-three posters were all alt accounts... until I was shocked to learn otherwise

I stalked one of the account and learnt that their dispatches were full to the brim. Their factbook related in game articles too...

and furthermore, some of them are also active roleplaying on their regional message board.. or offsite. But the thing that shocked me the most were to be frank the dispatches and factbook related articles bit...

you see. People can link (and you can tell whether someone linked to your nation on their dispatches automatically now) you to their dispatches. They can also link your storefronts to their dispatches. Well... they can link anything about you on their dispatches (and regional message board too). I don't know why or how.. but it seems the supply of new players are not going to Global Economics & Trade to buy from people because of this.

Back then, very few people storytell/write/roleplay in RMB or through their dispatches/factbook related articles in game (because these features were not there yet)

so people went straight to the official forums if they knew about the official forums. The Global Economics & Trade storefronts were also very well integrated with the International Incidents and Factbook & National Information forums back then.

Back in the day, you have Lyran Arms as the one huge super thread. People from Factbook & National Information knows about it. People from International Incidents knows about it. People believed that there is a one dominant set of 'NS MT realism' and everyone went to Lyras for that. As a flow on effect, these people were indirectly introduced to other equally large storefronts and storefront owners;

United Gordonopia
Van Luxemburg
Vitaphone Racing
ViZion
etc.

and from there, you have the present 'veteran' (this is subjective by the way) roleplaying regions, such as Astyria, Maredoratica (and its predecessors), Pardes, etc.

I can't be bothered to go on forward and forward (or go back in time from way back in 2005 when there were things such as Imperial Praetonian Shipyards PLC and the likes) but I hope you will get the gist. Things were very interconnected back then. Nowadays you don't have that any longer. Decentralised communities everywhere. And this very much affect new storefront owners (and old storefront owners) these days. And yes, this negatively affect all of us... unless, of course, we know how to get around this problem

edit: it's as if the whole in game factbook articles/meta games/accounts/dispatches/news/add more things here features are their own communities now. It's surprising... but also nice at the same time (though bad for us all storefront owners) because all of this meant that the NationStates Game Administrators (or whoever originally planned the whole in game roleplaying stuff) are doing their job very nicely to ensure storytelling/roleplaying activities of as many NationStates account owners as possible

edit conclusion: which will bring us back to my original post here: [ viewtopic.php?p=24713537#p24713537 ] and [ viewtopic.php?p=24720393#p24720393 ]

get to know as many ppl as u can from all over NationStates

final edit (damn will u keep on adding Yohannes damn) for ur entertainment: [ http://www.nationstates.net/page=dispat ... tegory=515 ] [ http://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatches/category=5 ]

and many more there. now look at Factbook & National Information forum (where new forum storytellers were once starting out from)

[Aquitayne]

Y'all need jesus.

[Neu Engollon]

Y'all need jesus.

Sez my fellow Jew brother.



So...I held back on saying anything, not because I didn't have truckloads to say, but because I heeded the advice of a mentor we all know and love to rise above and not feed the trolls. I will adhere to that...for the most part.

I will say this directly to whom it may concern: I am sorry for the 'robble robble' comment. It was not responsible, accountable or necessary.
That's all I really have to say about that pettiness, publicly.

Now, really, I think things need to be redirected, as Malt has mentioned, to the true nature of this thread. To the new players.
I hope you don't get disheartened by the nuttiness of the last couple pages of the thread, and I hope you don't hesitate in keeping up with hitting the veteran GE&Ters up with some excellent questions. I will say that I have been nothing but super impressed with the latest batch of new GE&T players. You guys are really good, and I hope you have that confidence in yourselves. You did your research, you practiced your formatting, you mined for ideas without copying and you put out some solid work.
I don't chime in here often with good reason, both because players like Maltropia, Aurora Confederacy and Nachmere can steer you right better than I ever could, and because, again, you guys barely need the help. You all want specific questions answered towards your RPing and constructing, not a general, rambling subjective philosophy. That is what you deserve and what you should get. Keep up the good work. Keep up the tough questions and don't get discouraged from obtaining your goals and getting as much fun out of this particular Diplomacy sub-forum, and NS in general that you can. You know better than anyone what you want to get out of it, and it definitely has a lot to do with what you put into it. NEW PLAYERS: If you have further valid questions for me, hit me up with a TG. But really, I would stick with Maltropia, Aurora Confederacy, Nachmere and some other focused players for solid formatting, research and storefront constructing advice.

Cheers!

[HYDRA-Russian Empire]

Thanks so much!!

[Eletan]

Aurora has done a pretty decent job of describing how to design things. I want to add this, though: "If you don't know, ASK!"

It will save you a lot of time and trouble to simply ask someone knowledgeable in the field, if you don't know the answer to something yourself. No one designer has become great on their own, it took time, effort, and *LOTS* of research for all of us to be able to come up with great designs that can compete with other top-tier designers in our respective fields.

Research is something that will help to either make or break your design(s), so make sure that you research the crap out of what you're going to design before you do design it. It helps to know what all the pieces in your design do, and how they do it, after all, and it makes you more knowledgeable, which is also a big plus for any designer. It also makes you look more professional in the eyes of your customers, when you can actually answer their questions about your design, which is something that will help to earn you customer loyalty, which is another big thing when it comes to storefronts.

Yeah, I am very interested in the aviation industry. Im basing my products off of the A380, 777-9x, A320 and A330. (4 planes for the 4 markets)

[Eletan]

That depends on what kind of aircraft you are going to sell. If memory is right, I believe there's a few storefronts around that produce/sell civilian aircraft. The same can be said for military aircraft. I think if you work hard on products and a page you can outdo most of your possible competitors.

Alas, advice might not have been heeded, but there's still hope...It's a WIP. (Someone help the poor lad!) Sound advice given, but there are a few aircraft manufacturers around, both military and civilian side, that have put in due diligence, research, and effort, as well as persevered and maintained to have some staying power. It's a tight, crowded field.

No, I was just inactive for 10 days. Busy with RL stuff, all the teachers assign the stupidest projects at the end of the year lol.

[Stormwrath]

I'd like to ask a certain question, in my FT storefront, many people have requested that I add surface and orbital defenses. Surface defenses are likened to RL defense systems, while orbital defenses are defense systems in orbit around a planet to defend it against would be space invaders. I am currently working on it, going to military defense websites for research. I should be asking what exactly am I supposed to show for these kinds of products? Which types of surface and orbital defenses should I show to my customers?