AWWA Part II-The Second Thirty Years War(OOC)

[Bojikami]

Well.... The Empire of Ruthenia could attack the Ottomans.

Japan comes to the mighty aid of the Ottoman Empire, bringing Britain into the conflict as well;
Confederacy attacks Britain;
Germany and Russia are wildcards.

And then post war Ruthenia is forced to disarm, this weakens their ability to combat Romanian Nationalists and Ukrainian communists. This plays into my plan very well...

[Ruridova]

Is that even vaguely realistic?

Yeah, considering Japan is sending settlers in masse to their African colonies, Somalia will be filled with mixed race people by the 1980's, however, Ethiopia will remain mostly as-is, just with a few differences.

In RL history there generally wasn't much race-mixing. I'd expect a situation either similar to the US and Australia(all the natives were killed by the new arrivals) or one similar to South Africa(both exist and there isn't much mixing).

Well.... The Empire of Ruthenia could attack the Ottomans.

Japan comes to the mighty aid of the Ottoman Empire, bringing Britain into the conflict as well;
Confederacy attacks Britain;
Germany and Russia are wildcards.

Not sure about Germany, Hungary, and Caucasia. Yugoslavia would likely go with Ruthenia.

[Unicario]

Yeah, considering Japan is sending settlers in masse to their African colonies, Somalia will be filled with mixed race people by the 1980's, however, Ethiopia will remain mostly as-is, just with a few differences.

In RL history there generally wasn't much race-mixing. I'd expect a situation either similar to the US and Australia(all the natives were killed by the new arrivals) or one similar to South Africa(both exist and there isn't much mixing).

Japan comes to the mighty aid of the Ottoman Empire, bringing Britain into the conflict as well;
Confederacy attacks Britain;
Germany and Russia are wildcards.

Not sure about Germany, Hungary, and Caucasia. Yugoslavia would likely go with Ruthenia.

Stab in the Back myth cometh alive. >_>

[Ruridova]

In RL history there generally wasn't much race-mixing. I'd expect a situation either similar to the US and Australia(all the natives were killed by the new arrivals) or one similar to South Africa(both exist and there isn't much mixing).

Not sure about Germany, Hungary, and Caucasia. Yugoslavia would likely go with Ruthenia.

Stab in the Back myth cometh alive. >_>

Hm?

[Bojikami]

Well.... The Empire of Ruthenia could attack the Ottomans.

Japan comes to the mighty aid of the Ottoman Empire, bringing Britain into the conflict as well;
Confederacy attacks Britain;
Germany and Russia are wildcards.

I assume Russia would aid Ukraine/Ruthenia.

[Luziyca]

Okay, don't know whether in 1984, Idi Amin should declare war on Uganda, or in 1979, the 5.3 million Chinese were given a choice to leave the country in a week with only what they can carry or risk "ethnic reform" by the government. The ethnic reform policy (mageuzi ya kikabila) would target the 2.1 million Chinese who hadn't left Kenya, with government-backed Swahili and Somali death squads against the Chinese in Kenya that kill 900,000 Chinese in 100 days before Tanganiyka, Congo, Ethiopia and China invade Kenya and oust Idi Amin, with the result of installing Daniel arap Moi as President and trying Idi Amin for genocide. Essentially, the Rwandan genocide but with a faster (sort of) response time.

If the latter occurs, Kenya faces a recession and a brain drain until around 1985, and then by 2003, it would've surpassed its living standards in 1978 (the worst year was in 1979 as a good chunk of the Chinese who survived moved back to China).

Somali death squads? No Somalis. The Somalis by the 1980's will be almost entirely Japonic people, basically the descendants of settlers and people living there. After a Kenyan ethnic genocide begins, both the Japanese Emperor (being Caliph of Japanese Islam) and the Ottoman Sultan(a) (being Caliph of Sunni Islam) would call a jihad against Kenya's government for the mass murder of innocents.

First, Japan and Kenya would appeal to the United Nations, but would likely just invade straight up.

Speaking of war -- Are we going to have any World Wars? It'll be kind of complex, but I imagine we'll eventually *have* to have some.

I meant the Somali minority in Kenya in the OTL Northeastern Province, as can be seen here on this map in Kenya.

But on second thought, those Somalis in OTL NE Province of Kenya could have been assimilated into the Chinese culture, mainly the Hui Muslims and be given similar treatment to the Tutsis, and be murdered alongside the Chinese, despite being not much for race-mixing. Out of the approx. 600,000 Somalis living in Kenya, 60,000 flee to Ethiopia, 35,000 to the Maldives, 501,000 were killed, and 4,000 survived in Kenya. Those 4,000 survivors migrated to Ethiopia or the Maldives in the following years, and today, only a handful of Somalis remain in Kenya. The genocide began on January 28, 1979 (Jan. 14 to Jan. 28, 1979 was when they had the chance to leave), falling on the same day as their independence day and Chinese New Year in 1960, and his regime (and the genocide) ended on May 8, 1979.

Also, China would use the colonial expedition law to quell the genocide and depose Idi Amin. The Maldives after finding out of the genocide against the Chinese and Somalis has their government declare war against Kenya and intervene to protect the Somali minority. The Guyanese also intervene, sending their forces out of the Americas for the first time since they were founded in 1797.

Anyways, by April 29, Nairobi falls to the allied forces and Daniel arap Moi (who won the 1978 election but the vote was rigged in favor of Amin) declares himself President but delays inauguration until Amin's forces is flushed out. The capital of Kenya was also moved by decree of Amin to Kampala, but it falls on May 2nd to the allied forces, and he decrees the capital to be moved to his hometown, Koboko. Few areas were controlled by Idi Amin, and by the time Koboko fell on May 7th, Amin had nowhere else to go but to the Congo, only to be arrested a day later by Kenyan border police as he tried to illegally enter the Congo. On May 10th, Daniel arap Moi is inaugurated, and by June, only one mob continued its activities led by Kony, which was quite elusive, only to reform itself into the Lord's Resistance Army that you all know and love with child soldiers and the like: the LRA was only flushed out in 2008 and Kony was arrested in 2009.

[Luziyca]

Anyways, would both Caliphs declare a fatwa that deems Idi Amin a non-Muslim despite being a devout Sunni Muslim who during the Mau Mau Uprising develops a form of Islam combining Sunni Islam, animism, and a religious movement called the Nation of Islam. Officially, Idi Amin claims it has links with Sunni Islam, and during his Africanization and ethnic reform campaign in 1979, he closed monasteries (Taoist, Buddhist and Confucian) and banned the relgions, in favor of imposing Idi Amin's version of Sunni Islam, which also has a few doses of cult of personality declaring Idi Amin the Mahdi that Muslims were looking for.

If he gets excommunicated (or the Muslim equivalent) due to the genocide in 1979, Idi Amin declares himself Caliph of Sunni Islam and openly state that he is the Mahdi, but few except his small Muslim group (much of Koboko, his hometown and his inner circle in Kampala and Nairobi) follow his version of Sunni Islam. After he got arrested,

As for the Kenyan Genocide Tribunal, perhaps Idi Amin, much of the government and the militias were tried in Malei in the Maldives, and when found guilty, they were sent to the Kudarah penal colony (founded 1873, largest with 3,000 prisoners in 1960, and closed that year), where they were psychologically tortured, from mock executions to abuse, to solitary confinement until either release or death (out of those who were sentenced to the minimum of 10 years in prison, only 15% survived the conditions, while those who were sentenced for 30 years or more have few survival rates), combined with sleep deprivation, forced nudity, head shaving, sensory deprivation, and forced to be put in stress positions. It also involved the worst conditions in maintenance, sanitary conditions, and living conditions.

When the conditions at the Kudarah Penal Colony were revealed in 2002, the Maldives were forced to hand over their Kenyan Tribunal prisoners to another country (the abuses in Kudarah were the tip of the iceberg for Maldivan prisons) and not allow any more Kenyan Tribunal prisoners from being sent to Kudarah.

Speaking of the tribunal, which nations would be on it besides China, Guyana, and the Maldives?

[Unicario]

Anyways, would both Caliphs declare a fatwa that deems Idi Amin a non-Muslim despite being a devout Sunni Muslim who during the Mau Mau Uprising develops a form of Islam combining Sunni Islam, animism, and a religious movement called the Nation of Islam. Officially, Idi Amin claims it has links with Sunni Islam, and during his Africanization and ethnic reform campaign in 1979, he closed monasteries (Taoist, Buddhist and Confucian) and banned the relgions, in favor of imposing Idi Amin's version of Sunni Islam, which also has a few doses of cult of personality declaring Idi Amin the Mahdi that Muslims were looking for.

If he gets excommunicated (or the Muslim equivalent) due to the genocide in 1979, Idi Amin declares himself Caliph of Sunni Islam and openly state that he is the Mahdi, but few except his small Muslim group (much of Koboko, his hometown and his inner circle in Kampala and Nairobi) follow his version of Sunni Islam. After he got arrested,

As for the Kenyan Genocide Tribunal, perhaps Idi Amin, much of the government and the militias were tried in Malei in the Maldives, and when found guilty, they were sent to the Kudarah penal colony (founded 1873, largest with 3,000 prisoners in 1960, and closed that year), where they were psychologically tortured, from mock executions to abuse, to solitary confinement until either release or death (out of those who were sentenced to the minimum of 10 years in prison, only 15% survived the conditions, while those who were sentenced for 30 years or more have few survival rates), combined with sleep deprivation, forced nudity, head shaving, sensory deprivation, and forced to be put in stress positions. It also involved the worst conditions in maintenance, sanitary conditions, and living conditions.

When the conditions at the Kudarah Penal Colony were revealed in 2002, the Maldives were forced to hand over their Kenyan Tribunal prisoners to another country (the abuses in Kudarah were the tip of the iceberg for Maldivan prisons) and not allow any more Kenyan Tribunal prisoners from being sent to Kudarah.

Speaking of the tribunal, which nations would be on it besides China, Guyana, and the Maldives?

Ethiopia, Japan, Mozambique and the Ottoman Empire.

[Shrillland]

I may consider that by the 1890s, Hainan ceases to be used as a penal colony to banish people to, and penal colonies are set up in the Maldives since it is a) far away from China, and b) difficult to escape since the colonies would be surrounded on all sides by water. Prior to independence in 1962, besides the 108,198 people (14,392 Han and 93,806 Maldivans), there would've been 12,022 convicts at all the penal colonies, meaning 1 out every 10 people living there was a convict convicted in China (the convicts lived on 29 penal colonies in the Maldives, or an average population of 1,335-1,336 people per penal colony), and in 1962, those 12,022 prisoners comprised 2/3rds of China's prisoners (18,033 prisoners, or one out of every 36,000 people). They were all relocated to Mongolia except those whose offenses were in the Maldives. The Kenyan prisoners were released in 1959 before the referendum.

Also, Shrilland, do you have any plans with the Chagos Islands (Diego Garcia, Peros Banhos, Salomon Islands, and Egmont Islands) as a colony of Britain? Or could China have it?

No, go ahead, the Chagos really don't have much going for them.

[Luziyca]

Thanks. In the 1890s, I may consider expanding into the Desolation Islands/Kerguelen Islands by resettling the Ilois population from the Chagos there due to a failed rebellion aimed at restoring a pretender to the Chagossian throne.

Chagos - From 1838 to 1844, Chagos was an outer province ruled by King Ming Claude, who reigned from around 1830 to 1844. In 1844, the wife of the Chinese commissioner to the Chagos poisoned the entire imperial family except the young children (i.e. five years old or younger), who were separated and sent to the ends of the Empire: a Prince, Kong Claude was sent to Karakorum (he was 4 in 1844), Princess Ai Claude was sent to Ulan Bator (she was 2), and Princess Li Claude was sent to Tashkent. A regent was appointed by China, who happened to be the Commissioner (similar situation to Kenya from 1921 when the native monarchy was abolished on false charges of violating agreements with China and were all banished to the Desolation Isles), and by the 1890s, the population was nearly Han (93.5% of the 10,000 strong population were Han, only 7.5% were Ilois) when Kong Claude visited the isles, was recognized by the Ilois as their King and was persuaded to start a revolt. It was brutally crushed, and the 600 Ilois survivors were banished to Kerguelens where a new colony was set up (officially an outer province with no monarch, hence a regency). Only 30 Ilois survived the first year (many died due to the cold and lack of accommodations on the island), and by 1900, only 20 Ilois were still alive. The last full-blooded Ilois died in 2005.

As for the Chagos, it prospers, and the city of "Yezijing" (Coconut capital) where Kokoye once was becomes a major center in the Chagos Province. In the 1930s, land reclamation fills in much of the lagoon, creating a smaller lake named Lake Julia and connected by a small "stream" to the sea. By 1960, Chagos has 73,584 people, of which 90% were Chinese, 5% were Maldivans, and 5% were other. In 1965, a referendum was held on the issue of Chagossian independence was held, with an overwhelming 79% opposing it. Thus, it joins China as Chagos Province, and divided into ten prefectures on the islands. In 1967, the Ilois were allowed to return to the Chagos from their place of exile, but few returned.

In 1979 due to protests by the decolonization movement, the Chagos Province and China made an agreement that the former will be a Special Administrative Region like OTL Hong Kong, except it would be until independence. However, while 183,294 people live in the Chagos as of 2010, it is under threat from a sea-level rise, and there are plans to relocate the Chagossian population to northern Manchuria where they would be safe.

[Bojikami]

So, is Vak on yet?

[Ruridova]

Lol, we have ironclads two decades early

[Bojikami]

Lol, we have ironclads two decades early

I noticed that too. I was going to say something... but meh.

[Unicario]

Lol, we have ironclads two decades early

Can I invent something two decades early? Like the tank?

[Shrillland]

Lol, we have ironclads two decades early

Can I invent something two decades early? Like the tank?

Maybe, we'll see when we get there.

[Luziyca]

Can I invent something two decades early? Like the tank?

Maybe, we'll see when we get there.

Yeah...

[The Vaktovian Empire]

OK I was grounded for 2 weeks. What did I miss?

[Bojikami]

OK I was grounded for 2 weeks. What did I miss?

I responded in the meeting.

[Shrillland]

Remember, after the visit to Guuyane is over, we'll be fast-forwarding to August, when the British and the Americans will fight a hell of a double engagement near both Washington and Baltimore.

[Bojikami]

Remember, after the visit to Guuyane is over, we'll be fast-forwarding to August, when the British and the Americans will fight a hell of a double engagement near both Washington and Baltimore.

And I shall post again soon. Hopefully.

[Ruridova]

Remember, after the visit to Guuyane is over, we'll be fast-forwarding to August, when the British and the Americans will fight a hell of a double engagement near both Washington and Baltimore.

Remind me: Washington burns but Baltimore is saved, right?

[Shrillland]

Remember, after the visit to Guuyane is over, we'll be fast-forwarding to August, when the British and the Americans will fight a hell of a double engagement near both Washington and Baltimore.

Remind me: Washington burns but Baltimore is saved, right?

Here is the game plan for the rest of 1838-39 as you wrote it:

The Confederacy and Union repel the attack at Baltimore, but are unable to hold Washington, which the British raze. A series of British campaigns in the Massachusetts Bay and along the Hudson and Delaware Rivers result in Union authority collapsing, its final acts being to give Maryland, Delaware, and the District of Columbia to the CSA, and similar assaults on Deseret result in its annexation by the Confederacy as well. The British are confident that the CSA will fall as Canada, Oregon, and the Union have, and that Deseret and the Confederacy will soon be reclaimed. The Confederacy gathers as much strength as it can, and creates two armies. The first, the Army of the Potomac, is led by Winfield Scott. The other army, the Army of the Ohio, is led by George Meade and Robert E. Lee. The two armies head up the Potomac, with the Army of the Potomac meeting a small British expedition at Sharpsburg/Anteitam, a battle to hold them up just long enough to prevent them from fighting at Gettysburg.
The Army of the Ohio and its British counterpart meet in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, a town that serves as a hub for several major roads.The British occupy Herr Ridge, taking control of the northern roads and pikes, while the Confederacy occupies the city. The first day of battle forces the Confederacy to retreat behind Seminary Ridge and Pilzter's Run, forcing them to give up the city and to retreat to Cemetery Hill. On the Second Day of Battle, the Confederacy would repel British assaults on the Baltimore Pike, Culp's Hill, the Emmitsburg Road, the Devil's Den, and Little Round Top, inflicting great casualties on the British, increasing the possibility of a stalemate or Confederate victory. On the third day, Confederate forces on Round Top and Little Round Top flank the British forces along the Emmitsburg Road, repel a British charge on Cemetery Hill at great cost, and push British forces on the east back to Wolf Hill. On the fourth day, the Confederates assault Cemetery Ridge, pushing the British back to the Chambersburg Pike and reclaiming Gettysburg, and push the British up to Hanover Road, with the exception of a pocket at Benner's Hill. On the fifth and final day, the Confederacy flanks the British forces on the Chambersburg Pike and claim Herr, McPherson, and Oak Ridges, totally destroying the British forces there. The remaining British forces surrender.

And I think Ol' Rough and Ready himself could win Gettysburg, he fits the time period, after all.

[The Vaktovian Empire]

I'm glad we know where we're going. But, as I've said, Ep is obviously not here anymore. So we need to find either replacements to play Italy, Sweden, and Brazil, or divide them amongst ourselves. We know Brazil will most likely become an NPC suffering from several non-organized and centralized civil war factions. What about Italy and Sweden? I'm sure Ruri would like Sweden, but I'd like Italy, in order to have a key power in Africa along with the fact it is influential for my greater plans for wars with France vs. Italy, Italy vs. Algeria, France vs. Algeria, and all of the above in other conflicts. I gave a more descriptive combination of events in an earlier post that also involved the Kingdom of Spain (Not yet defined) and the Caliphate of Al-Andalus.

[Unicario]

We'll just have them as NPCs. What says that Brazil would collapse into civil war? o.o

[Luziyca]

We'll just have them as NPCs. What says that Brazil would collapse into civil war? o.o

I agree. Perhaps Guyane invades and occupies Amapa and assimilates the Brazilians living there into their order. The royal army loses disastrously against the Guyanese and a civil war occurs.