NSG Senate General Discussion Thread

[Sichem]

I'm not a big fan of the Musandam proposal, because there I wouldn't be able to realistically play a Jewish minority leader...

[Costa Fierro]

I just don't get it.

Of course you wouldn't. Literally I cannot dumb it down enough.

There are too many jobs. There are not enough Arabs. Musandam imports foreign labour to fill gaps in the job market.

[MERIZoC]

The more I think about it the more I'm drawn towards a Southeast mainland Asian kingdom.

[Britanno 2]

I like Ike's Med proposal tbh, although if we're talking about the Med then it may not be a bad idea to think about going back to Aurentina.

[Skappola]

The more I think about it the more I'm drawn towards a Southeast mainland Asian kingdom.

There's certainly plenty of potential there, considering how many distinct ethnic groups there are which we could break off from existing countries. Would we want it to be coastal or landlocked? I would prefer coastal.

[Ainin]

I think a return to Aurentina would be a great mistake. Its only purpose is to satisfy the nostalgia of a tiny, tiny amount of old-timers while bringing back a frankly quite dull premise and location (if we wanted white Germanland once again, why don't we just continue Dagmar?). None of the things that happened in Aurentina were remotely influenced by the premise. The mafia and various paramilitaries going around numberwanking was location-independent. The closest thing Aurentina got to being an interesting premise that RPs could work with were that separatist crisis that got instantly IGNORE-cannoned for blatant godmodding and the debate about acceding to the European Union.

The reason Aurentina was so successful for so long is that it had a lot of people, hundreds in fact, at the start, that fuelled the RP for years before finally dropping below critical mass. There's nothing innately great about Aurentina itself.

[Skappola]

I just don't get it.

Of course you wouldn't. Literally I cannot dumb it down enough.

There are too many jobs. There are not enough Arabs. Musandam imports foreign labour to fill gaps in the job market.

Where are the jobs coming from? Without any real natural resources, Agrabah would just be mostly empty desert inhabited by nomadic bedouins and pearl divers, like the UAE before they found oil. No need for large numbers of foreign workers, as in oil-driven arab peninsular countries.

[Sichem]

I think a return to Aurentina would be a great mistake. Its only purpose is to satisfy the nostalgia of a tiny, tiny amount of old-timers while bringing back a frankly quite dull premise and location (if we wanted white Germanland once again, why don't we just continue Dagmar?). None of the things that happened in Aurentina were remotely influenced by the premise. The mafia and various paramilitaries going around numberwanking was location-independent. The closest thing Aurentina got to being an interesting premise that RPs could work with were that separatist crisis that got instantly IGNORE-cannoned for blatant godmodding and the debate about acceding to the European Union.

The reason Aurentina was so successful for so long is that it had a lot of people, hundreds in fact, at the start, that fuelled the RP for years before finally dropping below critical mass. There's nothing innately great about Aurentina itself.

What is Aurentina? Is it like Argenitina, but gold?

[Eol Sha]

I think a return to Aurentina would be a great mistake. Its only purpose is to satisfy the nostalgia of a tiny, tiny amount of old-timers while bringing back a frankly quite dull premise and location (if we wanted white Germanland once again, why don't we just continue Dagmar?). None of the things that happened in Aurentina were remotely influenced by the premise. The mafia and various paramilitaries going around numberwanking was location-independent. The closest thing Aurentina got to being an interesting premise that RPs could work with were that separatist crisis that got instantly IGNORE-cannoned for blatant godmodding and the debate about acceding to the European Union.

The reason Aurentina was so successful for so long is that it had a lot of people, hundreds in fact, at the start, that fuelled the RP for years before finally dropping below critical mass. There's nothing innately great about Aurentina itself.

What is Aurentina? Is it like Argenitina, but gold?

It was the original incarnation of the Senate. A few of the related threads have been placed in the Archives subforum if you're interested in learning more about it.

[Ainin]

I think a return to Aurentina would be a great mistake. Its only purpose is to satisfy the nostalgia of a tiny, tiny amount of old-timers while bringing back a frankly quite dull premise and location (if we wanted white Germanland once again, why don't we just continue Dagmar?). None of the things that happened in Aurentina were remotely influenced by the premise. The mafia and various paramilitaries going around numberwanking was location-independent. The closest thing Aurentina got to being an interesting premise that RPs could work with were that separatist crisis that got instantly IGNORE-cannoned for blatant godmodding and the debate about acceding to the European Union.

The reason Aurentina was so successful for so long is that it had a lot of people, hundreds in fact, at the start, that fuelled the RP for years before finally dropping below critical mass. There's nothing innately great about Aurentina itself.

What is Aurentina? Is it like Argenitina, but gold?

It was the setting of the first iteration of the NSG Senate, a Germanic archipelago north of Corsica (that still doesn't make any sense, but whatever).

[Argentarino]

Of course you wouldn't. Literally I cannot dumb it down enough.

There are too many jobs. There are not enough Arabs. Musandam imports foreign labour to fill gaps in the job market.

Where are the jobs coming from? Without any real natural resources, Agrabah would just be mostly empty desert inhabited by nomadic bedouins and pearl divers, like the UAE before they found oil. No need for large numbers of foreign workers, as in oil-driven arab peninsular countries.

I would assume they come from the god of job and industry...

Honestly though, that is a bit of a silly question. While natural resources certainly serve as a boon for an economy, they aren't a necessity for that economy to make jobs. In this case, there could be service jobs, maybe some manufacturing jobs, not to mention all of the government jobs, healthcare jobs, security (both local and national) jobs, among others.

[New Werpland]

Where are the jobs coming from? Without any real natural resources, Agrabah would just be mostly empty desert inhabited by nomadic bedouins and pearl divers, like the UAE before they found oil. No need for large numbers of foreign workers, as in oil-driven arab peninsular countries.

I would assume they come from the god of job and industry...

Honestly though, that is a bit of a silly question. While natural resources certainly serve as a boon for an economy, they aren't a necessity for that economy to make jobs. In this case, there could be service jobs, maybe some manufacturing jobs, not to mention all of the government jobs, healthcare jobs, security (both local and national) jobs, among others.

And you don't just push a button to make service sector jobs appear in the desert.

[The Sarian]

I think a return to Aurentina would be a great mistake. Its only purpose is to satisfy the nostalgia of a tiny, tiny amount of old-timers while bringing back a frankly quite dull premise and location (if we wanted white Germanland once again, why don't we just continue Dagmar?). None of the things that happened in Aurentina were remotely influenced by the premise. The mafia and various paramilitaries going around numberwanking was location-independent. The closest thing Aurentina got to being an interesting premise that RPs could work with were that separatist crisis that got instantly IGNORE-cannoned for blatant godmodding and the debate about acceding to the European Union.

The reason Aurentina was so successful for so long is that it had a lot of people, hundreds in fact, at the start, that fuelled the RP for years before finally dropping below critical mass. There's nothing innately great about Aurentina itself.

"The problem with nostalgia is what we tend to do is only remember what you like and you forget the parts you didn't like." ~ John Edwards

[Ikania]

I think a return to Aurentina would be a great mistake. Its only purpose is to satisfy the nostalgia of a tiny, tiny amount of old-timers while bringing back a frankly quite dull premise and location (if we wanted white Germanland once again, why don't we just continue Dagmar?). None of the things that happened in Aurentina were remotely influenced by the premise. The mafia and various paramilitaries going around numberwanking was location-independent. The closest thing Aurentina got to being an interesting premise that RPs could work with were that separatist crisis that got instantly IGNORE-cannoned for blatant godmodding and the debate about acceding to the European Union.

The reason Aurentina was so successful for so long is that it had a lot of people, hundreds in fact, at the start, that fuelled the RP for years before finally dropping below critical mass. There's nothing innately great about Aurentina itself.

"The problem with nostalgia is what we tend to do is only remember what you like and you forget the parts you didn't like." ~ John Edwards

"I am a faithful man." - John Edwards

[Stormaen]

The more I think about it the more I'm drawn towards a Southeast mainland Asian kingdom.

SEA is still my favourite proposal. A kingdom would be an interesting take on it. Who would be King/Queen? Would they be an NPC or would we choose someone to play them?

I have to say, I do quite like Ike's Mediterranean proposal (though I'd change the year of independence from 1951 to 1961; a year after the larger Cyprus).

[Argentarino]

I would assume they come from the god of job and industry...

Honestly though, that is a bit of a silly question. While natural resources certainly serve as a boon for an economy, they aren't a necessity for that economy to make jobs. In this case, there could be service jobs, maybe some manufacturing jobs, not to mention all of the government jobs, healthcare jobs, security (both local and national) jobs, among others.

And you don't just push a button to make service sector jobs appear in the desert.

No, really?! You do realize that there is a thing called "cities"? Looking at the history that Costa recommended, this place had cities, it appeared to have ports, it appeared to enjoy some economic development. So, yes, you're right, those jobs didn't just pop up in the desert because Aladdin made three wishes on a magic lamp. But in the cities that had already been built, well, holy crap, there seems to be potential for jobs! *eyeroll*

[Britanno 2]

I think a return to Aurentina would be a great mistake. Its only purpose is to satisfy the nostalgia of a tiny, tiny amount of old-timers while bringing back a frankly quite dull premise and location (if we wanted white Germanland once again, why don't we just continue Dagmar?). None of the things that happened in Aurentina were remotely influenced by the premise. The mafia and various paramilitaries going around numberwanking was location-independent. The closest thing Aurentina got to being an interesting premise that RPs could work with were that separatist crisis that got instantly IGNORE-cannoned for blatant godmodding and the debate about acceding to the European Union.

The reason Aurentina was so successful for so long is that it had a lot of people, hundreds in fact, at the start, that fuelled the RP for years before finally dropping below critical mass. There's nothing innately great about Aurentina itself.

That's probably true I guess. Personally I'm too fussed about the location as long as we don't go full on Baltonia.

[Skappola]

And you don't just push a button to make service sector jobs appear in the desert.

No, really?! You do realize that there is a thing called "cities"? Looking at the history that Costa recommended, this place had cities, it appeared to have ports, it appeared to enjoy some economic development. So, yes, you're right, those jobs didn't just pop up in the desert because Aladdin made three wishes on a magic lamp. But in the cities that had already been built, well, holy crap, there seems to be potential for jobs! *eyeroll*

And yet not enough for there to be massive numbers of foreign workers. Mass migration of foreign workers to Arabia only occured because of the combination of the discovery of oil and lack of population. Without the oil, there's no reason for there to be so many foreign workers.

[New Werpland]

No, really?! You do realize that there is a thing called "cities"? Looking at the history that Costa recommended, this place had cities, it appeared to have ports, it appeared to enjoy some economic development. So, yes, you're right, those jobs didn't just pop up in the desert because Aladdin made three wishes on a magic lamp. But in the cities that had already been built, well, holy crap, there seems to be potential for jobs! *eyeroll*

And yet not enough for there to be massive numbers of foreign workers. Mass migration of foreign workers to Arabia only occured because of the combination of the discovery of oil and lack of population. Without the oil, there's no reason for there to be so many foreign workers.

Well put.

I'm not against all foreigners but 30% of the population is way too much. The Ivory Coast experienced a big influx of Frenchmen when they developed their cocoa industry, but never enough to make the French population ever come close to 30% of the damn population.

[Costa Fierro]

I like Ike's Med proposal tbh, although if we're talking about the Med then it may not be a bad idea to think about going back to Aurentina.

I have a partial Aurentina proposal but with a Romance conlang as opposed to the ridiculous German one.

[Kamchastkia]

Let's just bring Aurentina back. Good ole days

[Eol Sha]

So I finally read through your proposal, Costa. I like it quite a bit. It's got a pretty interesting history (obviously not better than Dagmar's ) and the demographics make sense, I think. I do have a few criticisms and questions, though.

1. I find it a little hard to believe that any Arabian country would give women the right to run for public office (even if said elections are more or less rigged) back in the 1980s. It just seems a little too progressive. Especially given the activities of Saudi Arabia during the '80s and subsequent decades. And, overall, it doesn't seem like Islam played much of a role in the development of Musandam's history. It seemed more like flavor than an integral part of the nation.

2. As caustic as Werp(?) was about the demographics and the economy, I do have a few questions. What is Musandam's economy based on? Is it based on resource extraction? A service economy more closely resembling that of Western countries? Is it a more evenly balanced mix of the two?

3. Sticking with the economy, why, how, and when did Musandam exactly develop its high-tech manufacturing industry? How high-end is the tech? Can it compete with, say, Japan in terms of technological advancement? And if so, is robotization a growing issue in the political arena? Also, why does Musandam have an aerospace industry? They'd need a lot of qualified engineers, people who probably went to school in the West, to even hope to begin to fill its ranks and make it competitive with Western or even established non-wetern companies.

4. You also mentioned copper mining. I'll take you at your word, or at least implication, that this part of the world has substantial copper deposits. No reason to just make that up. However, I would like to know if it's a major part of the nation's economy. Does it employ significant numbers of people? Or is it smaller in scale?

5. When the last Dictator-President, can't remember his name, was reforming the country did he run into any resistance from the local religious authorities (if Ibadi Islam even has such people)? And what about the more conservative parts of the population? Surely there would have been some resistance to his rather rapid reforms in the 1980s and after.

6. Now to switch over to politics. How liberal is Musandam's political system? I'm not talking ideologically, but are there restrictions on political associations and the formation of political parties? Do foreign workers have a say in the political system or are they totally shut out or is there an inbetween? In the proposal, you said that the Dictator-President allowed some banned political groups to participate in elections. Have things changed since that first decree? Is it easier for "fringe" groups to run and get elected to the Majsil or is it harder? Not only that, but was Musandam a multi-party state during the rule of the last Dictator-President, and even before, or was it more of a single-party state like Syria or a state like Jordan where party-affiliation is minor and the Majsil is mostly filled with nominally independent politicians?

7. Also, what exactly is there to see in Musandam to justify two tourism-oriented airports? Does Musandam have sites and landmarks similar to Petra in Jordan or the Hagia Sophia in Istanbul?

8. Moving on to demographics, I have a few questions. Why are there so many people from the Caucasus? Or are they just white Westerners? Not only that, but did you give any thoughts to having a few thousand African migrants? I don't know if Africans really migrate to the Gulf states for work like South and Southeast Asians do, but I thought I'd just throw the question out there.

9. To go to a slightly more specific topic. Ships. So you wrote that an important part of Musandam's economy involves shipbuilding. Why, exactly? It just seems to me that if people are going to build ships of any size and value they'd go to India or China or the US rather than a small country like Musandam. The same goes for ship repairs. I'm not saying it's a bad idea or anything, but I was just wondering if you could provide some insight on why you went with shipbuilding?

10. Oh, and one more frivilous thing. Why exactly was no one willing to give the leftist rebels weapons in the '60s? Did the USSR view it as a waste of time, money, and resources? What about Libya or Syria or Iraq or maybe even China? It just seems like the government of Musandam could have been overthrown with relative ease since no country was providing aid, military or otherwise, to the national military until 1976.

All in all, though, I did like the proposal.

Fear not, Ike, I will read your proposal soon, as well.

[Dragomere]

What are all of the proposals?

[Kamchastkia]

What are all of the proposals?

Just support my proposal. Restore Aurentina.

[Eol Sha]

What are all of the proposals?

Costa's unofficial idea.
Ikania's.

Dunno if there are more, but I'm working on one right now. Hoping to be done by the start of June.