NS Military Realism Consultancy Thread Mark IX Spitfire

[Gallia-]

http://www.benning.army.mil/armor/earmo ... Naboe.html

[Vadia]

I'm always up for a good story.
Especially when they involve idiocy in the military. So please do.

The Soviet Union in the 1930s had an officers' and designers lobby that demanded rush adoption of mortars on all levels of the infantry.

...despite the inability of the industry to produce proper mortars.

....including mortars on individual infantryman level.

37mm mortars that used an oversensitive shell that would sometimes go off in the bandolier. That were also shovels.

Mortars are godless abominations that manage to be easy to make and vastly harder to aim.

Which is why they almost always seem to hit only babies.

[The Kievan People]

Mortars are godless abominations that manage to be easy to make and vastly harder to aim.

Which is why they almost always seem to hit only babies.

Babies attract long range weaponry. This is a known fact of warfare.

If you wish to protect something place it a few hundred meters from a nursery. Everything will miss be a few hundred meters.

[Greater Allidron]

Are interceptors really worthless for a nation that is larger than Paraguay but has a large land border with its enemy? I need to have constant CAP's and a large anti air defense network.

[The Akasha Colony]

Are interceptors really worthless for a nation that is larger than Paraguay but has a large land border with its enemy? I need to have constant CAP's and a large anti air defense network.

Interceptors mostly stopped mattering because multi-role fighters combined with AEW&C have benefited from significantly improved performance and strategic bombers are no longer the primary means of delivering nuclear weapons.

[Lamoni]

Interceptors mostly stopped mattering because multi-role fighters combined with AEW&C have benefited from significantly improved performance and strategic bombers are no longer the primary means of delivering nuclear weapons.

Multi-roles are also cheaper to operate and maintain than dedicated interceptors, anyway. Depending on your budget, that could well also make a difference.

[Greater Allidron]

Interceptors mostly stopped mattering because multi-role fighters combined with AEW&C have benefited from significantly improved performance and strategic bombers are no longer the primary means of delivering nuclear weapons.

Multi-roles are also cheaper to operate and maintain than dedicated interceptors, anyway. Depending on your budget, that could well also make a difference.

Yes, I do have 20 billion a year on my Air Force budget, so messing around with those may seem a bit wasteful. So I'll stick with multi roles. I'm assuming Russia's Air Force budget is about that high?

[The Technocratic Syndicalists]

Are interceptors really worthless for a nation that is larger than Paraguay but has a large land border with its enemy? I need to have constant CAP's and a large anti air defense network.

The only nation that really maintains an interceptor fleet is the Russians as Russia has vast amounts of territory and a huge northern coastline which would wake defending all their airspace with SAMs highly impractical. With a nation the size of paraguay modern SAM systems like the S-300 would provide you with more than enough coverage and are also a lot cheaper to procure and operate than a fleet of interceptors. Also modern air superiority fighters like the F-15 or F-22 have the range and speed to function effectively as interceptors so there's no real need for a dedicated aircraft in that role.

[Imperializt Russia]

I'm always up for a good story.
Especially when they involve idiocy in the military. So please do.

The Soviet Union in the 1930s had an officers' and designers lobby that demanded rush adoption of mortars on all levels of the infantry.

...despite the inability of the industry to produce proper mortars.

....including mortars on individual infantryman level.

37mm mortars that used an oversensitive shell that would sometimes go off in the bandolier. That were also shovels.

...
I thought one of the major arguments behind the resurgence of the mortar was that they were absurdly easy to construct.
The Soviet interwar industry could build the T-34, the Tu-3, modernise the Mosin, and mechanise eight-inch howitzers, but not "produce proper mortars"?

just use AMP

Goggle is confused.

It's a smart-fused multipurpose shell. IIRC it's supposed to be capable of airburst with HEAT-FRAG.

[Purpelia]

Also Kurchevsky. I am always fond of the little bastard.

One of these days you have got to publish a story book. Or at least a megathread with all your stories.

[Gallia-]

The Soviet Union in the 1930s had an officers' and designers lobby that demanded rush adoption of mortars on all levels of the infantry.

...despite the inability of the industry to produce proper mortars.

....including mortars on individual infantryman level.

37mm mortars that used an oversensitive shell that would sometimes go off in the bandolier. That were also shovels.

...
I thought one of the major arguments behind the resurgence of the mortar was that they were absurdly easy to construct.
The Soviet interwar industry could build the T-34, the Tu-3, modernise the Mosin, and mechanise eight-inch howitzers, but not "produce proper mortars"?

Goggle is confused.

It's a smart-fused multipurpose shell. IIRC it's supposed to be capable of airburst with HEAT-FRAG.

no...

AMP is a high explosive shell with delayed/airburst/impact fuse settings.

[Imperializt Russia]

I thought it had a HE mode but I had somewhere in my head that it still featured a HEAT liner.

[Gallia-]

I thought it had a HE mode but I had somewhere in my head that it still featured a HEAT liner.

it's a giant blob of high explosive...

[Arthurista]

Are late -Cold War era short ranged SAM systems - Rapier, Roland, SA-8 etc. still useful? They were designed during a time when low level passes with cluster bombs were the main threat to ground formations. What if an attacking close air support aircraft uses, say, Brimstones, or cluster JSOW? Even a Brimstone-armed Apache will probably outrange a SAM battery.

Bearing that in mind, should brigade-divisional level air defence feature weapons with at least 40+km range? SA-17, CAAM-ER and the like?

[Purpelia]

Are late -Cold War era short ranged SAM systems - Rapier, Roland, SA-8 etc. still useful? They were designed during a time when low level passes with cluster bombs were the main threat to ground formations. What if an attacking close air support aircraft uses, say, Brimstones, or cluster JSOW? Even a Brimstone-armed Apache will probably outrange a SAM battery.

Bearing that in mind, should brigade-divisional level air defence feature weapons with at least 40+km range? SA-17, CAAM-ER and the like?

They are useful for taking stuff like UAV's down as well as making sure the enemy can't just fly over and cluster bomb you but has to instead use vastly more expensive, complex and difficult to use smart munitions.

[Imperializt Russia]

SHORADS will have counter-PGM capability. It will be of limited effectiveness against short-range weapons like Brimstone/Hellfire, but still there.

Brimstone/Hellfire might have a range of 8km, but they'd be much more effective and useful launched from 2-5km, which puts them well in SHORADS range. They're not really standoff weapons.

[Arthurista]

SHORADS will have counter-PGM capability. It will be of limited effectiveness against short-range weapons like Brimstone/Hellfire, but still there.

Brimstone/Hellfire might have a range of 8km, but they'd be much more effective and useful launched from 2-5km, which puts them well in SHORADS range. They're not really standoff weapons.

The range of Brimstone 1 is 20km from a plane and 12 from a heli. 60 and 40 for the Brimstone 2.

[EsToVnIa]

Are late -Cold War era short ranged SAM systems - Rapier, Roland, SA-8 etc. still useful? They were designed during a time when low level passes with cluster bombs were the main threat to ground formations. What if an attacking close air support aircraft uses, say, Brimstones, or cluster JSOW? Even a Brimstone-armed Apache will probably outrange a SAM battery.

Bearing that in mind, should brigade-divisional level air defence feature weapons with at least 40+km range? SA-17, CAAM-ER and the like?

yes they are useful still

long live roland

[Purpelia]

long live roland

I am pretty sure that would completely diminish him as a character.

[Husseinarti]

If air defense systems could shoot down bombs in the early 1980s I'd think they could intercept missiles.

Maybe the speed thing would be an issue.

[Greater Allidron]

So after reading the Wiki description of the Iskander it sounds to me as if it is one of the most as advanced theatre ballistic missiles. Is that true?

[Questers]

Strategic Security & Defence Review 2015, as predicted, a fucking disaster. Why anyone trusts the Conservatives on defence I have NO idea.

[Celibrae]

Strategic Security & Defence Review 2015, as predicted, a fucking disaster. Why anyone trusts the Conservatives on defence I have NO idea.

How so?

[Imperializt Russia]

For the benefit of all:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... eview-2015
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34897076

Going to start reading, BBC article first.

Mr Fallon defended the previous coalition government's decision to scrap the planned Nimrod fleet, saying: "It wasn't ready, that was the problem. We didn't dispense with it - it wasn't there."

...
The Nimrod fleet was dispensed with. It was there. It was removed from service following the 2010 SDR.
The upgrade programme might "not have been ready", but the Nimrod fleet absolutely was, wasn't it?

[Questers]

The deployable Division sounds good in theory. Some more analysis on this soon.

The Navy got shafted once again, and the Air Force statements are REALLY disingenuous.

But I did hear on grapevine before today the Army plans to rejuvenate Challenger. Since this is confirmed in SDSR, I rather wonder if they'll get wohle new turret. The Army post-Armata wants a new gun.