NS Military Realism Consultation Thread Type 08

[Immoren]

Theater level?

Theater level commanders surely command from command bunkers and/or fortified buildings deeper behind the from lines.
I'd harass.

[Padnak]

First version.

Feedback please so I can make it easy to understand but also include important information.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/870 ... lained.pdf

How do military communications work?

by Questers, nationstates.net

Military signals are a complicated topic, mainly because they are based, in the modern era, around networking. A full analysis would require in-depth knowledge of networking. This document has been written for a reader who knows nothing at all of military communications, let alone networking, and so is both comparatively brief and simple. Some of the explanations are basic, and so miss some finer details, but this is only an introductory document. To read this, however, you will need to know what is meant by 'frequency.'

[Roski]

The largest ICBM developed was the SS-18 Satan. It had a "throw-weight" of about eight tons.
You're proposing a missile launching 100 tons of warheads, plus penetration aids, plus guidance.

You'd need a Long March 9 to launch this - it doesn't even exist.

Ah, ok.

Thank you for giving a better answer than "u cant bc is not worth it"

Thats a limiting factor that does crush the idea.



Also, Lamoni, I don't need to hear that coming from an head of Lyras Arms

[Inyourfaceistan]

The largest ICBM developed was the SS-18 Satan. It had a "throw-weight" of about eight tons.
You're proposing a missile launching 100 tons of warheads, plus penetration aids, plus guidance.

You'd need a Long March 9 to launch this - it doesn't even exist.

Ah, ok.

Thank you for giving a better answer than "u cant bc is not worth it"

Thats a limiting factor that does crush the idea.

Also, Lamoni, I don't need to hear that coming from an head of Lyras Arms

Or "you can't b/c you will most likely start a strategic nuclear exchange anyway".

Keep in mind that before I say what I am about to say that I am a very vocal critic of certain products by Lyras Arms - including that-which-shalt-not-be-spoken-of - and in general the whole idea of NS MT.
This being said; Lyras and Lamoni deserve credit where credit is due and everyone behind the storefront puts a very large amount of time and effort into researching concepts, facts about existing equipment and designing the products. To diss them just because your quick-fix idea of launching a super-sized ICBM to try and circumvent (and likely fail) some treaty or something against WMD's is a bit unfair considering the apparent gap of background research into the respective ideas...

[Tule]

The largest ICBM developed was the SS-18 Satan. It had a "throw-weight" of about eight tons.
You're proposing a missile launching 100 tons of warheads, plus penetration aids, plus guidance.

You'd need a Long March 9 to launch this - it doesn't even exist.

Ah, ok.

Thank you for giving a better answer than "u cant bc is not worth it"

Thats a limiting factor that does crush the idea.



Also, Lamoni, I don't need to hear that coming from an head of Lyras Arms

Just to be clear, it's perfectly practical to mount conventional warheads on short-ranged ballistic missiles. The Scud and the Iskander come to mind.

The more distant your target is, the harder it gets to hit it accurately. The Iskander has a CEP of less than 10 meters, but the RS-24 ICBM has a CEP of 150 meters.

The former is perfectly accurate enough for a few hundred kilogram warhead, not the latter.

[Lyras]

The largest ICBM developed was the SS-18 Satan. It had a "throw-weight" of about eight tons.
You're proposing a missile launching 100 tons of warheads, plus penetration aids, plus guidance.

You'd need a Long March 9 to launch this - it doesn't even exist.

Ah, ok.

Thank you for giving a better answer than "u cant bc is not worth it"

Thats a limiting factor that does crush the idea.



Also, Lamoni, I don't need to hear that coming from an head of Lyras Arms

This is uncalled for.

[Gallia-]

Rather than talking about deploying MIRV-CVNs, people should talk about my article and what is wrong with it, so that I can fix it.

Ok.

Inter- is a useful adjective/prefix because it describes how the Internet is made of up nothing more than millions of networks connected together through gateways/routers.

Also you forgot to mention how encryption creates some latency so no one [at least from the decadent West and used to 4G iPhone internet not 1G milnet] ever uses it.

[Roski]

Ah, ok.

Thank you for giving a better answer than "u cant bc is not worth it"

Thats a limiting factor that does crush the idea.



Also, Lamoni, I don't need to hear that coming from an head of Lyras Arms

This is uncalled for.

k

[Triplebaconation]

Does anyone know if the home-on-jam feature of the AIM-120 AMRAAM is automatic or does it have to be activated by aircraft support or pre-programmed prior to the mission?

The pilot selects it prior to launch like any other firing mode.

I think it's just launched in boresight mode.

AMRAAM doesn't really have a HOJ mode.

[United Marxist Nations]

In a historical RP, it is 1773, everyone is trying to bring about the complete and ultimate fall of the Ottoman Empire, can you guys give me a brief overview of why that couldn't happen to help my case?

[Alien Space Bats]

From an epidemiological POV, how in the Hell are European armies going to be able to survive in Africa and the Middle East without crippling losses prior to being able to benefit from the medical advances of the late 19th Century?

They can drive you out of Europe, but that's about it.

[United Marxist Nations]

From an epidemiological POV, how in the Hell are European armies going to be able to survive in Africa and the Middle East without crippling losses prior to being able to benefit from the medical advances of the late 19th Century?

They can drive you out of Europe, but that's about it.

Oh, I'm not the Ottomans. I just think we're going over the line of realism.

-There is me, Russia; I'm currently taking Crimea and a few little tiny pieces in the Caucases (but in the timeline others are setting up, I should get Armenia as a puppet state really soon as well, though I argue there is no way in hell I could hold it).
-The Cossack Hetmanate, taking a few areas around Moldavia.
-Egypt, which is trying to basically take all of the Levant, Arabia, and Mesopotamia.
-Austria, trying to take Bosnia.
-Greek Rebels, basically about to be given a blanq cheque to go full-blown Megali.

[Inyourfaceistan]

The pilot selects it prior to launch like any other firing mode.

I think it's just launched in boresight mode.

AMRAAM doesn't really have a HOJ mode.

According to FAS it does, but it doesn't make much mention of the activation of said mode other than "it also features a home-on-jam to defeat electronic jamming"...

http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/aim-120.htm

[The Corparation]

Decided to do more writeup stuff for LRNSA. It goes without saying that as something from my list of Bad Things List^TM I'm looking for feedback on the how and not the why. Main thing I'm wondering today is mission crew requirements for a couple of the variants.(I already have the flight crew for LRNSA itself done) Specifically crew required for the parasite aircraft. Right now I have the optional shuttle bay with its 4 aircraft requiring a crew of 32 crew. 10 of these crew members are flight crew for the shuttles. Of the rest, 22 are support crew, 16 are responsible for the maintenance of the shuttles, and the remaining 6 are for the Launch/Recovery System.

For the carrier version, I have the same aforementioned 32 shuttle crew plus another 112 for the fighter wing. (Fighter wing consists of 20 mid-sized single engine fighters) 25 of the crew are pilots, and 60 are support crew. The dual launch / recovery system would take a crew of 15. In addition to this there would be an air traffic control staff of 12.

Do these seem like reasonable crew numbers?

[Triplebaconation]

I think it's just launched in boresight mode.

AMRAAM doesn't really have a HOJ mode.

According to FAS it does, but it doesn't make much mention of the activation of said mode other than "it also features a home-on-jam to defeat electronic jamming"...

http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/aim-120.htm

HOJ isn't really an advanced capability. It dates back to the very beginning of EW, and both Sparrow and Phoenix had it. It's limited and really only useful against noise jamming. What's usually called HOJ mode in AMRAAM is actually a low PRF mode with capability against deceptive jamming. The AMRAAM also has the ability to detect target emissions (possibly not limited to jamming in later variants), but it's unclear how that interacts with the other guidance laws.

[Spirit of Hope]

In a historical RP, it is 1773, everyone is trying to bring about the complete and ultimate fall of the Ottoman Empire, can you guys give me a brief overview of why that couldn't happen to help my case?

It would be possible, but it would take a very specific set of circumstances. The Ottomans were weakening during this time period, but they did last another 150 years for a reason. It would essentially require the all of the European powers set aside all of their difficulties with one another and work at it together.

I feel like the internal unrest you are describing would be rather unlikely for the time period.

[Yukonastan]

Is it reasonable to fit a parachute-loitering antiradiation missile with a GPS receiver so it can determine and store a target's GPS position based on radar emissions, then fly towards it even if the radar decides it's not going to radiate any more?

[New Vihenia]

Is it reasonable to fit a parachute-loitering antiradiation missile with a GPS receiver so it can determine and store a target's GPS position based on radar emissions, then fly towards it even if the radar decides it's not going to radiate any more?

Your're talking about British ALARM bro.

[Yukonastan]

Is it reasonable to fit a parachute-loitering antiradiation missile with a GPS receiver so it can determine and store a target's GPS position based on radar emissions, then fly towards it even if the radar decides it's not going to radiate any more?

Your're talking about British ALARM bro.

ALARM doesn't try to find the location of the radar in case the radar kills itself, no? That's what I'm proposing. Fit ALARM with a GPS receiver and compass to try and determine where a battery is based on its LOS from the missile. Then a GPS fix is generated based on that, to cause the missile to hit near enough to the radar even if the radar switches off to avoid being tracked.

[Imperializt Russia]

Is it reasonable to fit a parachute-loitering antiradiation missile with a GPS receiver so it can determine and store a target's GPS position based on radar emissions, then fly towards it even if the radar decides it's not going to radiate any more?

I'm going to assume anti-radiation missiles don't have the complexity or equipment to determine GPS location of emissions source.

Else ALARM would do something that isn't "deploy parachute until radar turns back on".

[Atomic Utopia]

I was thinking of a way to reduce the number of people I will have to have in my logistics department and came up with an idea that could be either absolutely terrible or a good idea.

I was reading about overland transport and the like thought "why not have a system where several automated trucks follow a truck containing a driver and have these automated trucks copy what the driver does at the location the driver did it".

In other words the human driver in the first truck would press one of the controls and a computer would record the location this was done at. When one of the automated trucks following closely behind reaches that point it also would turn using those controls input by the human driver. In the event that one of the units fails the rest would immediately brake on the orders co-pilot who would watch a GPS map of the trucks following behind, thus preventing collisions.

So, would such a semi-automated system work for the rather mundane task of logistics?

[Yukonastan]

Is it reasonable to fit a parachute-loitering antiradiation missile with a GPS receiver so it can determine and store a target's GPS position based on radar emissions, then fly towards it even if the radar decides it's not going to radiate any more?

I'm going to assume anti-radiation missiles don't have the complexity or equipment to determine GPS location of emissions source.

Else ALARM would do something that isn't "deploy parachute until radar turns back on".

Alright, you're misunderstanding slightly I'm afraid. That's my fault for not being clear.

Idea is:
Aircraft detects radar.
Aircraft launches missile.
Missile climbs to high altitude, burns out first stage, and pops chute.
Missile hangs nose-down, letting radar seeker see down.
GPS receiver determines position and altitude of the missile.
Seeker determines relative bearing and altitude from missile, transmits data to acft.
Acft uses data to compute likely radar location, and sends back to missile.

Missile now ditches the chute and ignites its second stage, all the while updating its target's relative location.
Missile hits target and rearranges it within a large radius.

If, during the final attack stage, the radar is shut down, the missile flies toward the last estimated GPS position of the radar, hopefully close enough to still severely damage it.

If during the loiter phase the radar shuts off, the missile just loiters.

[Questers]

First version.

Feedback please so I can make it easy to understand but also include important information.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/870 ... lained.pdf

How do military communications work?

by Questers, nationstates.net

Military signals are a complicated topic, mainly because they are based, in the modern era, around networking. A full analysis would require in-depth knowledge of networking. This document has been written for a reader who knows nothing at all of military communications, let alone networking, and so is both comparatively brief and simple. Some of the explanations are basic, and so miss some finer details, but this is only an introductory document. To read this, however, you will need to know what is meant by 'frequency.'

After reading it, I like it. It's basic, simple and understandable. And it covers all the basics for people who know nothing of the tech. One thing you might want to touch on, assuming it is used is multiplexing. I know it's used on mobile phones and such and see no reason why it should not be used on military radios. But maybe it ain't.

They do. I called it frequency hopping, but frequency hopping is a form of multiplexing. I didn't really go into specific detail on it so that will be in another update.

[The Akasha Colony]

The largest ICBM developed was the SS-18 Satan. It had a "throw-weight" of about eight tons.
You're proposing a missile launching 100 tons of warheads, plus penetration aids, plus guidance.

You'd need a Long March 9 to launch this - it doesn't even exist.

Ah, ok.

Thank you for giving a better answer than "u cant bc is not worth it"

Thats a limiting factor that does crush the idea.

I said that four pages ago.

I'm going to assume anti-radiation missiles don't have the complexity or equipment to determine GPS location of emissions source.

Else ALARM would do something that isn't "deploy parachute until radar turns back on".

Alright, you're misunderstanding slightly I'm afraid. That's my fault for not being clear.

Idea is:
Aircraft detects radar.
Aircraft launches missile.
Missile climbs to high altitude, burns out first stage, and pops chute.
Missile hangs nose-down, letting radar seeker see down.
GPS receiver determines position and altitude of the missile.
Seeker determines relative bearing and altitude from missile, transmits data to acft.
Acft uses data to compute likely radar location, and sends back to missile.

Missile now ditches the chute and ignites its second stage, all the while updating its target's relative location.
Missile hits target and rearranges it within a large radius.

If, during the final attack stage, the radar is shut down, the missile flies toward the last estimated GPS position of the radar, hopefully close enough to still severely damage it.

If during the loiter phase the radar shuts off, the missile just loiters.

Most of this is unnecessary. Having the GPS capability largely obviates the need for the parachute loiter mode. The loiter mode in ALARM was meant to be used in the event the signal was lost, to allow the missile to hopefully wait around long enough for it to be found again. Sticking around and communicating with the missile while loitering can put your launching aircraft at risk as well.

However, if your missile can save the target's approximate coordinates, it doesn't need this loiter mode. It just switches toward homing in on those coordinates rather than the radar signal if the signal is lost. This capability was supposed to be incorporated in the Block VI AGM-88D HARM before it was cancelled, and is supposed to be included in the AGM-88E AARGM (along with an MMW seeker to resolve specific target features).

[Triplebaconation]

After reading it, I like it. It's basic, simple and understandable. And it covers all the basics for people who know nothing of the tech. One thing you might want to touch on, assuming it is used is multiplexing. I know it's used on mobile phones and such and see no reason why it should not be used on military radios. But maybe it ain't.

They do. I called it frequency hopping, but frequency hopping is a form of multiplexing. I didn't really go into specific detail on it so that will be in another update.

This is very informative, but there are a few sentences that should be polished.

"During the first world war and subsequent wars, military wireless communications was still an infant practice, and so consisted mainly of telephone lines."

"That being said, since some things such as high-resolution images are quite large and couldn't be reasonably sent over radio in a short time, satellites are also used as a transmission medium for military networks."

It might be pedantic to point these out but at least I read the whole thing.