NSG Senate Chamber [NSG Senate] - Version 4

[Libertechie]

Little Italies and Chinatowns are apparently the causes of crime now

Perhaps not causes of crime, but certainly dens of crime. Low income areas typically have high crime rates.

Sorry, I should have elaborated more. Yes that is true, and often in these places there have been cases of gangs operating. Not neccesarily saying all, but it has been a cause in the past. If there has been offense caused, I do apologize, and if the comment is asked to be withdrawn I will do so.

[Libertechie]

I thought it was assumd that I accepted it! Alright then, wait, back up, be careful, I'm old. 1...2...3... CHEST BUMP!

I have a feeling that this event will forever by remembered by people everywhere:

That was beautiful.

[Mediciano]

That was beautiful.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1022718/Pictured-The-moment-George-Bush-chest-bumps-airman.html#
You should see the rest of those pictures...

[The Liberated Territories]

Perhaps not causes of crime, but certainly dens of crime. Low income areas typically have high crime rates.

Sorry, I should have elaborated more. Yes that is true, and often in these places there have been cases of gangs operating. Not neccesarily saying all, but it has been a cause in the past. If there has been offense caused, I do apologize, and if the comment is asked to be withdrawn I will do so.

No need to apologize. Just try to individualize instead of collectivize.

-Min. States

[Skeckoa]

Sorry, I should have elaborated more. Yes that is true, and often in these places there have been cases of gangs operating. Not neccesarily saying all, but it has been a cause in the past. If there has been offense caused, I do apologize, and if the comment is asked to be withdrawn I will do so.

No need to apologize. Just try to individualize instead of collectivize.-Min. States

The individualism of my party bewilders me.

[The Liberated Territories]

No need to apologize. Just try to individualize instead of collectivize.-Min. States

The individualism of my party bewilders me.

I am (somewhat) of an Objectivist. So sue me. Actually don't.

Blame the English language instead.

[Libertechie]

No need to apologize. Just try to individualize instead of collectivize.-Min. States

The individualism of my party bewilders me.

How funny would it be if the LPA didn't allow factions and individual voting to occur, but forced its members to tow the party line all the time

[Skeckoa]

How funny would it be if the LPA didn't allow factions and individual voting to occur, but forced its members to tow the party line all the time

Just damn down hilarious.

[The Liberated Territories]

The first libertarian party (LFP) did utilize whips for a while, but when we merged it was abolished.

[Skeckoa]

The first libertarian party (LFP) did utilize whips for a while, but when we merged it was abolished.

That's actually why I joined the LCP as opposed to the LFP, because the whips... and because Belmaria didn't look as intimidating as Gaveo and Regnum Dominae.

[Libertechie]

Having talked at length with the powers that be this is the full debate schedule currently up.

-Child Protection Act
-Social Justice Act
Railway Operations and Regulations Act
Free Aurentine Language Education Act
Aurentine Education Act


Five bills mean there will be a minimum of 48 hours of debate. Thank you.

Shall we continue with the debate at hand?

Social Justice Act
Author: PM Alexander Ainin [NDP] | Urgency: High | SIMBEDS: Domestic Development
Sponsors: David Sloman [NDP], Wulukuno Porunalakai [NDP], Max Roman [NDP], Zephiniah Nuckerberg [NDP], Joshua Burchett [RG], Rupert Weinthal [ALM]
The Senate of the Aurentine Commonwealth,

Whereas often-abused and unprivileged persons in lower classes of society deserve the protection of the law against discrimination and personal attacks, as mandated by the International Law Act,

Whereas government is the only institution capable of enforcing justice in an uniform and objective fashion,

Whereas the Government of Aurentina believes everyone is born free and equal, as affirmed by our ratification of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and Charter of the United Nations,

Hereby enacts the following into law:

This act may be referred to as the Social Justice Act of 2013, tabled by Prime Minister Alexander Ainin of the New Democratic Party.

Section 0
Homeless person is defined as an actual person (see below) without a permanent residence within Aurentina, but is either a citizen or permanent resident.
Restaurant is defined as a business located in a fixed location larger than 100m² selling food, drinks or both, and with access to tap water (see below).
Tap water is defined as drinkable water originating from a government-owned water filtration facility.
Actual person is defined as a member of the Homo sapiens family.
Person is defined as an entity prosecutable by law for offences.

Section I

All restaurants are mandated to offer a glass at least 250 mL of tap water to persons at no charge.
All owners of restaurant owners are mandated to inform its existing staff of the above regulation, and to explain this to all new staff.
All persons that fail to implementing either clause within 31 days of the act's passage is violation of a statute, a contravention.
The Ministry of Health shall be mandated to inform all restaurant owners within 10 days of the act's passage, through the Aurentine Postal Service.
Restaurants that lack addresses shall be given one by the relevant authority, and the Ministry of Health shall have to mail its owners with the provisions of this act within 15 days of the creation of the address.

Section II

The Ministry of the Interior shall be mandated to create and operate night shelters for homeless persons.
It must build at least one publicly-administered shelter in every census-designated area (see: Aurentine Postal Service Act) for every 10,000 persons (rounded to the nearest ten thousand). Too blanket. What about rich areas where virtually no homeless people are?
All shelters must have able to accommodate a minimum of 25 actual persons comfortably, to be verified by the Ministry of Labour each year.
Shelters must provide an adequate quantity of free food, an unlimited amount of free water, and comfortable bedding to all homeless persons.
A shelter may only refuse access to a person for the following reasons:
The person is clearly not a homeless person, which the staff is allowed to verify by asking for an adequate form of identification. If it cannot be presented, the staff may forbid the person from entry at its discretion.
The person's entry may severely disrupt the public order or may put the staff or residents at risk of bodily or psychological harm.

If you make the modifications I've suggested, I'll sponsor the bill.

To be perfectly honest, and I'm sure that many Libertarians of my party will disagree with me here, but I rise to be speak quite fondly of this legislation, and am especially happy with the idea of free water. Although fostering the involvement of private charity, most certainly this here is a good basis and kickstarter in combating poverty, and I do praise it. Although I may beg to differ on other forms of 'social justice' policy, free water from private businesses I don't believe would hurt the economy, or severely impact, and I think that the government is obliged to maintain a certain standard of living for it's people, and subsidized soup kitchens, and shelter. Human rights is a strong belief of mine, and so is liberty, however I highly doubt one is really free if one is starved of food, shelter and water, which we can agree are basic human rights, I hope. So in pursuit of social justice, and out of a balance of practicality and compassion, I would love to get on board, reach across to my ProgCo counterparts, and support this legislation, and is open to further amendments and discussion. Thankyou.

[The Liberated Territories]

Gav is benign. Quendi is intimidating.

Above: You'd be correct. Although I don't really care about the water as I do about the regulations on the prisons...err homeless shelters.

[Libertechie]

Gav is benign. Quendi is intimidating.

Above: You'd be correct. Although I don't really care about the water as I do about the regulations on the prisons...err homeless shelters.

I think that they are pretty good. Perhaps 'comfortable bedding' may need to be expanded/further defined, we do need to make sure that there is distinction between homeless shelter and state housing, we can't have the shelters too comfortable, however we don't want shelters that are crowded, unsafe, unhygienic and so on. Is there anyway we can come up with an idea for a way to measure the comfortability these shelters will have? It would be great if we could know what the writer of the bill intended here

[Skeckoa]

Gav is benign. Quendi is intimidating.Above: You'd be correct. Although I don't really care about the water as I do about the regulations on the prisons...err homeless shelters.

Quite honestly, community centers, churches, and local governments have benefits for those less fortunate already. Also, the number of how many houses is quite high. Maybe it'll take down the number of squatters? But ehh.. As for the water, water is a human right, I ain't getting fretted over that.

[The Liberated Territories]

There are probably a lot of abandoned castles in Aurentina. Open them to the public and you got yourself a homeless shelter.

[Libertechie]

Gav is benign. Quendi is intimidating.Above: You'd be correct. Although I don't really care about the water as I do about the regulations on the prisons...err homeless shelters.

Quite honestly, community centers, churches, and local governments have benefits for those less fortunate already. Also, the number of how many houses is quite high. Maybe it'll take down the number of squatters? But ehh.. As for the water, water is a human right, I ain't getting fretted over that.

Interesting point. I think first off most certainly it would be great to have the three and some central governmental assistance working together formally, and this bill here could be the basis for some organisation as an anti-poverty, government-sponsored program/charity, and definitely before the govt gets stuck in offering loads of taxpayer money it should encourage private, charitable investment. If there are high amounts of housing in certain districts then of course we should make some exception(s) for these districts so we don't have government waste, but also these shelters would be good if they can still take high numbers of people even if it isn't always filled, this being in case we are hit with economic crisis, environmental disaster etc. Good dialogue going on here

[Libertechie]

There are probably a lot of abandoned castles in Aurentina. Open them to the public and you got yourself a homeless shelter.

Could these be of high value though? Maybe sell off the castles if of no use atm, and use the money to take down tax, spending, or subsidisation of more social welfare, etc.

[The Nihilistic view]

There are probably a lot of abandoned castles in Aurentina. Open them to the public and you got yourself a homeless shelter.

Don't touch any castles, they were not built to house peasants.......unless you plan on keeping them in the dungeons?

[The Liberated Territories]

There are probably a lot of abandoned castles in Aurentina. Open them to the public and you got yourself a homeless shelter.

Could these be of high value though? Maybe sell off the castles if of no use atm, and use the money to take down tax, spending, or subsidisation of more social welfare, etc.

Not unless they have historical significance, really.

[The Nihilistic view]

Gav is benign. Quendi is intimidating.Above: You'd be correct. Although I don't really care about the water as I do about the regulations on the prisons...err homeless shelters.

Quite honestly, community centers, churches, and local governments have benefits for those less fortunate already. Also, the number of how many houses is quite high. Maybe it'll take down the number of squatters? But ehh.. As for the water, water is a human right, I ain't getting fretted over that.

Yes, this bill would have us built 75,000 rooms. The UK for example has between 2-3000 homeless people. This bill is so unbelievably wasteful at a time when we need to be saving it not spending it on stuff that will not get used.

[The Liberated Territories]

Quite honestly, community centers, churches, and local governments have benefits for those less fortunate already. Also, the number of how many houses is quite high. Maybe it'll take down the number of squatters? But ehh.. As for the water, water is a human right, I ain't getting fretted over that.

Yes, this bill would have us built 75,000 rooms. The UK for example has between 2-3000 homeless people. This bill is so unbelievably wasteful at a time when we need to be saving it not spending it on stuff that will not get used.

Knowing the Senate, it would still probably pass. Just erase everything but the free water part.

[The Nihilistic view]

Yes, this bill would have us built 75,000 rooms. The UK for example has between 2-3000 homeless people. This bill is so unbelievably wasteful at a time when we need to be saving it not spending it on stuff that will not get used.

Knowing the Senate, it would still probably pass. Just erase everything but the free water part.

87,500 to be exact. The cost is likely to be around £10,000,000,000. I don't actually thing we can pay for it even if it passes.

[Libertechie]

Knowing the Senate, it would still probably pass. Just erase everything but the free water part.

87,500 to be exact. The cost is likely to be around £10,000,000,000. I don't actually thing we can pay for it even if it passes.

This is how many beds per room though? Bunk beds could help

[The Nihilistic view]

87,500 to be exact. The cost is likely to be around £10,000,000,000. I don't actually thing we can pay for it even if it passes.

This is how many beds per room though? Bunk beds could help

You know that is not how the leftist will build them if they get into power again. They will build doubles with a kitchen lounge and bathroom. TV and pay channels etc etc. My figure was conservative.

[Libertechie]

This is how many beds per room though? Bunk beds could help

You know that is not how the leftist will build them if they get into power again. They will build doubles with a kitchen lounge and bathroom. TV and pay channels etc etc. My figure was conservative.

That's not a homeless shelter, that's state housing. The bill needs to clarify what homeless shelters will include, and make cost estimations as well. I would now say I am to abstain until clarification takes place in form of an amendment to this. And whomever wrote this originally, where've you gone?!