Chicago Officer Charged With First Degree Murder

[Wallenburg]

Am I a bad person if I want to make a fast food joke?

As to the murder, I'm confused as to how it could be first degree. That requires premeditation. This seems far more like second degree murder.

[The Hobbesian Metaphysician]

Personly I hope for the worst riots yet, Chicago is currupt as fuck, though I doubt it since it's so close to TGing. That and I like watching dumb black people set fire to there homes. It's an early Christmas for me, just watched protesters attack a wall of bicycle and bike cops. If shit starts getting real, I'm recording it and I'll post it for you guys.

What no dumb people in general?

[The Hobbesian Metaphysician]

Well, that's sad.

Like, why even try to hide things like this in a period when it's commonplace for these types of things to get revealed to the public anyway?

Some last minute attempts to enforce an incredibly mutilated form of the blue line of silence. Of course they ought to know it won't work since the days of the 1980s are over, and not coming back.

[Exelia]

Michael Brown doesn't have a goddamned thing to do with this thread. That shooting was arguably justified, though whatever the Justice Department may have said, it's going to remain controversial in activist circles for years due to the actual proven racism and corrupt police culture in the Baltimore department. This shooting was blatantly unjustified, and only came to light because one person was willing to anonymously let the right people know that dashcam footage existed.

I mean, it had to do with what I was saying. I used it as an example, you are very touchy about this subject I can see. Michael Brown also was not in Baltimore, he was in Ferguson, although the cops there were definitely racist.

[Costa Fierro]

Am I a bad person if I want to make a fast food joke?

Well, you could say McDonald isn't lovin' it now.

As to the murder, I'm confused as to how it could be first degree. That requires premeditation. This seems far more like second degree murder.

Premeditated would mean the officer knew where to find this person and was actively seeking to murder him. If anything, a manslaughter charge should be brought against the officer in question, because continuing to shoot a suspect after they've been shot and lying on the ground goes beyond using reasonable force.

I don't quite understand but the source in the OP said that McDonald had a knife so...is there still a legal justification for discharging your firearm?

[Wallenburg]

Am I a bad person if I want to make a fast food joke?

Well, you could say McDonald isn't lovin' it now.

As to the murder, I'm confused as to how it could be first degree. That requires premeditation. This seems far more like second degree murder.

Premeditated would mean the officer knew where to find this person and was actively seeking to murder him. If anything, a manslaughter charge should be brought against the officer in question, because continuing to shoot a suspect after they've been shot and lying on the ground goes beyond using reasonable force.

I don't quite understand but the source in the OP said that McDonald had a knife so...is there still a legal justification for discharging your firearm?

He is lying on the ground, immobile, with multiple gun wounds, as the officer continues to shoot him. No, there is absolutely no justification.

[Gauthier]

Well, you could say McDonald isn't lovin' it now.



Premeditated would mean the officer knew where to find this person and was actively seeking to murder him. If anything, a manslaughter charge should be brought against the officer in question, because continuing to shoot a suspect after they've been shot and lying on the ground goes beyond using reasonable force.

I don't quite understand but the source in the OP said that McDonald had a knife so...is there still a legal justification for discharging your firearm?

He is lying on the ground, immobile, with multiple gun wounds, as the officer continues to shoot him. No, there is absolutely no justification.

And despite video evidence, there are still going to be people who say Thug Had It Coming and that the police was justified.

This makes the third Fruitvale-style police execution I've read about.

[Alyakia]

At this point, I've just stopped caring about who is doing what, who shot and killed who else. It's happening so frequently that I just give up trying to count the bodies of officers and civilians on the streets regarding the shootings.

so has the government lol

[Alyakia]

He is lying on the ground, immobile, with multiple gun wounds, as the officer continues to shoot him. No, there is absolutely no justification.

And despite video evidence, there are still going to be people who say Thug Had It Coming and that the police was justified.

This makes the third Fruitvale-style police execution I've read about.

character assassination based on past misdeeds (i.e. the kind of thing that would get you a mistrial) is the iron step #2 on the 5 steps of police shootings on the internet

[Toronina]

There is a difference between shooting to neutralize a target, and shooting them 16 times. I would hate to see a repeat of Ferguson where a murderer went free.

[The Archregimancy]

Personly I hope for the worst riots yet, Chicago is currupt as fuck, though I doubt it since it's so close to TGing. That and I like watching dumb black people set fire to there homes. It's an early Christmas for me, just watched protesters attack a wall of bicycle and bike cops. If shit starts getting real, I'm recording it and I'll post it for you guys.

*** Warned for trolling. ***

[Costa Fierro]

There is a difference between shooting to neutralize a target, and shooting them 16 times. I would hate to see a repeat of Ferguson where a murderer went free.

This case and Ferguson are not the same. Brown attacked the police officer beforehand and tried to steal his firearm. In any officer's mind, stealing, or even attempting to steal, an officer's firearm automatically escalates the situation. As the officer was without a taser, there was really other option if Brown tried to attack him again, which he did.

With McDonald, I am aware in the article sourced in the OP stated that McDonald was armed with a knife, but did nothing with the knife that could have harmed any officer in any way. Therefore the discharge of the firearm, let alone the sixteen shots that were fired, were unnecessary and unreasonable.

Is it murder? No. Murder implies premeditation and I doubt that the officer that shot McDonald was driving around specifically to look for McDonald to kill him. You know what they charge people for negligent death? Manslaughter. McDonald's death was not an accident but nor was it premeditated and that means that a charge of manslaughter should be brought against the officer that killed him.

However, given that the police tried to cover it up and the record of police officers actually making it to trial, I wouldn't hold my breath. The fact that the department paid the family off before the officer was even charged leads me to suspect that a proper course of justice won't be found here.

[Internationalist Bastard]

16 shots? Ok, that kid was either on some powerful stuff or the cop really wanted him dead.

[Costa Fierro]

16 shots? Ok, that kid was either on some powerful stuff or the cop really wanted him dead.

The kid fell within the first two shots. The officer basically emptied the rest of his magazine into the body (or the road surrounding McDonald) and reloaded and was about to empty another magazine into the body before another officer stopped him.

[Washington Resistance Army]

16 shots? Ok, that kid was either on some powerful stuff or the cop really wanted him dead.

The kid fell within the first two shots. The officer basically emptied the rest of his magazine into the body (or the road surrounding McDonald) and reloaded and was about to empty another magazine into the body before another officer stopped him.

Something that happens far too often tbh, I can't count how many times I've heard of a cop firing a full magazine at someone when they're down after 2 or 3 shots.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

16 shots? Ok, that kid was either on some powerful stuff or the cop really wanted him dead.

You didn't actually read the OP, did you? Tell you what: Go back to it. Even if you don't want to read the whole thing, you can see the tape of the shooting at the second link. Then come back here and tell me which one it was.

[Costa Fierro]

The kid fell within the first two shots. The officer basically emptied the rest of his magazine into the body (or the road surrounding McDonald) and reloaded and was about to empty another magazine into the body before another officer stopped him.

Something that happens far too often tbh, I can't count how many times I've heard of a cop firing a full magazine at someone when they're down after 2 or 3 shots.

I really can't quite grasp what it is with American police and their aggression. In New Zealand (with a population of 4.5 million people, basically the same as either Kentucky or Louisiana), the police have shot dead three people so far this year, two of whom were armed. In Kentucky, 17 people have been shot dead. The figure rises to 24 in Louisiana.

What is with the massive discrepancy in how many are killed? Is it because firearms are more prevalent? Is it because crime rates are higher?

[Washington Resistance Army]

Something that happens far too often tbh, I can't count how many times I've heard of a cop firing a full magazine at someone when they're down after 2 or 3 shots.

I really can't quite grasp what it is with American police and their aggression. In New Zealand (with a population of 4.5 million people, basically the same as either Kentucky or Louisiana), the police have shot dead three people so far this year, two of whom were armed. In Kentucky, 17 people have been shot dead. The figure rises to 24 in Louisiana.

What is with the massive discrepancy in how many are killed? Is it because firearms are more prevalent? Is it because crime rates are higher?

I truly have no idea, I like to place it on poor training and possibly because of how prevalent guns are (thus making cops wonder if the people they're dealing with are armed etc) but it's probably a lot more complex than that.

[Costa Fierro]

I really can't quite grasp what it is with American police and their aggression. In New Zealand (with a population of 4.5 million people, basically the same as either Kentucky or Louisiana), the police have shot dead three people so far this year, two of whom were armed. In Kentucky, 17 people have been shot dead. The figure rises to 24 in Louisiana.

What is with the massive discrepancy in how many are killed? Is it because firearms are more prevalent? Is it because crime rates are higher?

I truly have no idea, I like to place it on poor training and possibly because of how prevalent guns are (thus making cops wonder if the people they're dealing with are armed etc) but it's probably a lot more complex than that.

I suppose being armed all the time might have something to do with it, but again, police in places like Australia, Canada and most of Europe all have armed officers and comparatively fewer people are shot and killed by police.

Although, the training aspect is interesting. There have been some shows around that show the training some officers go through and it's basically like a boot camp for the military, so perhaps there's a sense of a gung-ho attitude there as well, as in "shoot first, ask questions later". Or, in this case, ask no questions at all.

[Tsaraine]

At this point, I've just stopped caring about who is doing what, who shot and killed who else. It's happening so frequently that I just give up trying to count the bodies of officers and civilians on the streets regarding the shootings.

so has the government lol

The US government hasn't stopped trying to count; it hasn't started. Or at least its attempts to do so have been actively hindered at all levels.

The CDC can't study gun violence - despite being ordered to do so by the President - without Congress removing its funding. Police departments underreport or just don't track the number of civilians killed by police, because if there's no data people can point to it means there's no problem, right? Even the FBI has no good numbers on how many people are killed by police, because reporting is voluntary and only about 3% of US police departments bother.

So we literally don't have any sort of accurate count of how many people are killed by police.

Believing as I do in evidence-based policy, I think this is atrocious; reporting these deaths to the FBI should be absolutely mandatory, and the CDC should be absolutely funded to study gun violence. We can't begin to formulate solutions if we don't have good data on the problem!

[Trumpostan]

It's not even rogue police who are the problem so much as it is a police culture that allows them to get away with these things.

That's exactly what it is, police culture. A culture of lying, filing false reports that say people charged you when it is not true, claiming to have felt 'threatened' and of collusion with prosecutors, grand juries, police unions, chiefs, superintendents in order to ensure that any police officer in question can stay on the job. Now it doesn't only happen to black 'suspects' but it does seem to disproportionately happen when black 'suspects' are the ones who were gunned down.

Professor discusses FBI warning of white supremacists infiltrating law enforcement

The white supremacist cop who murdered Tamir Rice was acquitted by the very same system that allowed him to be a cop in the first place. The prosecutors ea want to ensure future police cooperation so they automatically side with whatever BS the cop wrote in his report. And these days, you better have video that overwhelmingly proves what the police says is wrong, because otherwise you are just SOOL. The coverups involving prosecutors, police chiefs etc... are endemic, part of the police culture these days. Where even the majority of 'good' police officers does nothing whenever one of the 'bad' police officers cross the line. A culture that encourages silence, collusion and coverup. And even if they get outsiders to write a report, they will ensure these are friendly outsiders like retired cops or prosecutors or judges who will ensure the most favorable outcome possible (for the police officer involved).

Time that police officers had to pay settlements out of their own pension fund, or get private Insurance like medical professionals. Because that alone will trigger a major attitude adjustment, if the cops themselves have to pay for settlements rather than the taxpayers, you will see that the 'good' officers break ranks with the 'bad' ones, something that doesn't happen today.

You call it a police culture, you are right about that. These aren't individual bad apples, they are part of a system that systematically discriminates.

Most telling, none of the other five officers involved fired a single shot, including the ones that had been on the scene earlier. But once again, a wannabe klansman comes storming in and decided he was 'fearing for his life' (the usual BS police officer excuse for having executed a black person).

http://chicagoreporter.com/how-chicago-tried-to-cover-up-a-police-execution/
From the comment section:

Actually, no. Definition of Premeditated Murder "The crime of wrongfully and intentionally causing the death of another human being (also known as murder) after rationally considering the timing or method of doing so, in order to either increase the likelihood of success, or to evade detection or apprehension". The first two shots fired dropped the suspect, then there was a pause (premeditation could be as short as a couple of seconds). Seconds later, 14 other shots were fired. So "timing and method," and "the "increasing the likelihood success," applies here. Then the cop systematically lied, erased evidence, and recruited other officers in collusion of his false narrative; which allows the "...evade detection or apprehension..." part of the definition to be applied.

[Napkiraly]

There is a difference between shooting to neutralize a target, and shooting them 16 times. I would hate to see a repeat of Ferguson where a murderer went free.

This case and Ferguson are not the same. Brown attacked the police officer beforehand and tried to steal his firearm. In any officer's mind, stealing, or even attempting to steal, an officer's firearm automatically escalates the situation. As the officer was without a taser, there was really other option if Brown tried to attack him again, which he did.

With McDonald, I am aware in the article sourced in the OP stated that McDonald was armed with a knife, but did nothing with the knife that could have harmed any officer in any way. Therefore the discharge of the firearm, let alone the sixteen shots that were fired, were unnecessary and unreasonable.

Is it murder? No. Murder implies premeditation and I doubt that the officer that shot McDonald was driving around specifically to look for McDonald to kill him. You know what they charge people for negligent death? Manslaughter. McDonald's death was not an accident but nor was it premeditated and that means that a charge of manslaughter should be brought against the officer that killed him.

However, given that the police tried to cover it up and the record of police officers actually making it to trial, I wouldn't hold my breath. The fact that the department paid the family off before the officer was even charged leads me to suspect that a proper course of justice won't be found here.

Murder does not imply premeditation, only first degree murder does. Which is why I'm wondering why they're charging the guy with first degree murder, as they'll have to prove that it was all premeditated.

[Alvecia]

This case and Ferguson are not the same. Brown attacked the police officer beforehand and tried to steal his firearm. In any officer's mind, stealing, or even attempting to steal, an officer's firearm automatically escalates the situation. As the officer was without a taser, there was really other option if Brown tried to attack him again, which he did.

With McDonald, I am aware in the article sourced in the OP stated that McDonald was armed with a knife, but did nothing with the knife that could have harmed any officer in any way. Therefore the discharge of the firearm, let alone the sixteen shots that were fired, were unnecessary and unreasonable.

Is it murder? No. Murder implies premeditation and I doubt that the officer that shot McDonald was driving around specifically to look for McDonald to kill him. You know what they charge people for negligent death? Manslaughter. McDonald's death was not an accident but nor was it premeditated and that means that a charge of manslaughter should be brought against the officer that killed him.

However, given that the police tried to cover it up and the record of police officers actually making it to trial, I wouldn't hold my breath. The fact that the department paid the family off before the officer was even charged leads me to suspect that a proper course of justice won't be found here.

Murder does not imply premeditation, only first degree murder does. Which is why I'm wondering why they're charging the guy with first degree murder, as they'll have to prove that it was all premeditated.

Could be a bargaining tactic of sorts.

[Gauthier]

This case and Ferguson are not the same. Brown attacked the police officer beforehand and tried to steal his firearm. In any officer's mind, stealing, or even attempting to steal, an officer's firearm automatically escalates the situation. As the officer was without a taser, there was really other option if Brown tried to attack him again, which he did.

With McDonald, I am aware in the article sourced in the OP stated that McDonald was armed with a knife, but did nothing with the knife that could have harmed any officer in any way. Therefore the discharge of the firearm, let alone the sixteen shots that were fired, were unnecessary and unreasonable.

Is it murder? No. Murder implies premeditation and I doubt that the officer that shot McDonald was driving around specifically to look for McDonald to kill him. You know what they charge people for negligent death? Manslaughter. McDonald's death was not an accident but nor was it premeditated and that means that a charge of manslaughter should be brought against the officer that killed him.

However, given that the police tried to cover it up and the record of police officers actually making it to trial, I wouldn't hold my breath. The fact that the department paid the family off before the officer was even charged leads me to suspect that a proper course of justice won't be found here.

Murder does not imply premeditation, only first degree murder does. Which is why I'm wondering why they're charging the guy with first degree murder, as they'll have to prove that it was all premeditated.

Taking a page from Bob McCullough's playbook, deliberately throwing a case to get one of their own off the hook. By charging the asshole with Murder 1, they're guaranteeing that sufficient standards will not be met (with coverups, leaks and destruction of evidence if needs be) and so a jury will fail to convict.

[Ifreann]

Murder does not imply premeditation, only first degree murder does. Which is why I'm wondering why they're charging the guy with first degree murder, as they'll have to prove that it was all premeditated.

Taking a page from Bob McCullough's playbook, deliberately throwing a case to get one of their own off the hook. By charging the asshole with Murder 1, they're guaranteeing that sufficient standards will not be met (with coverups, leaks and destruction of evidence if needs be) and so a jury will fail to convict.

Or they think they have a case for murder 1.