WBC vs Kim Davis

[Tekania]

Freedom of Religion means you can practice your religion without being abused. It doesn't grant you the right to abuse others.

The clerk is being abused for being against gay marriage, because of her religion. She is not abusing anyone by not getting the license to the gay couple.

Every time she refuses to issue a license to lawful applicants she is abusing her office and the people whom it serves.

[The Siverian Republic]

The clerk is being abused for being against gay marriage, because of her religion. She is not abusing anyone by not getting the license to the gay couple.

Every time she refuses to issue a license to lawful applicants she is abusing her office and the people whom it serves.

Are you seriously quoting old posts? Get in an argument with the newer one, i am not a part of this?

[The Princes of the Universe]

Freedom of Religion means you can practice your religion without being abused. It doesn't grant you the right to abuse others.

The clerk is being abused for being against gay marriage, because of her religion. She is not abusing anyone by not getting the license to the gay couple.

Um, no. The clerk is being prosecuted for refusing to do the job she was hired to do. If that section of her post is that objectionable to her, she needs to relinquish the position.

[Farnhamia]

The clerk is being abused for being against gay marriage, because of her religion. She is not abusing anyone by not getting the license to the gay couple.

Um, no. The clerk is being prosecuted for refusing to do the job she was hired to do. If that section of her post is that objectionable to her, she needs to relinquish the position.

She's not being prosecuted. She hasn't been indicted of anything. She is in jail because she refused to obey a Federal injunction and was thereby held in contempt of court.

[The Siverian Republic]

The clerk is being abused for being against gay marriage, because of her religion. She is not abusing anyone by not getting the license to the gay couple.

Um, no. The clerk is being prosecuted for refusing to do the job she was hired to do. If that section of her post is that objectionable to her, she needs to relinquish the position.

These are old posts!! I don't even give a damn!! Now stop quoting me, and do the newer one's.

[Deuxtete]

Feel free to turn that chip on your shoulder sideways and shove it directly up your ass along with your soap box.

*** Warned for flaming ***

How exactly is that a flame, what insult did I hurl, what generalization did I make?
I didn't point out their lack of reading comprehension.

I'm sorry is it against the rules to tell someone they've obviously got a chip on their shoulder or that they're so concerned with it while they're yammering from their soap box to notice when they being agreed with?

Please don't pretend there are manners required here, and by no means is fucking courtesy expected.
If he isn't expected to fucking read what he's responding to, I can't be expected to smile and pretend I said anything like what he is lodging a response to.

[Tekania]

She is breaking the law. I can't break the law for religious reasons

You know about the conscientious objector during WW1 and Vietnam? They were breaking the law for refusing to serve in the draft, but their religion is against killing. Muhammad Ali got his champion title revoked for refusing to got to Vietnam, and was breaking the law. But his religion prevents him from killing.

I'm not saying that the couple shouldn't get married.

A conscience objector is someone who objects to the carrying out a particular required role and is excused from that role. She's not a conscience objector.... he's attempting to remain attached to the role while abnegating certain parts of it.

She is free to object.... by resignation.

[Farnhamia]

Um, no. The clerk is being prosecuted for refusing to do the job she was hired to do. If that section of her post is that objectionable to her, she needs to relinquish the position.

These are old posts!! I don't even give a damn!! Now stop quoting me, and do the newer one's.

Hush. If your position has changed, state it clearly and maybe people will address it. people do tend to read forward through a thread, not backwards, though.

[Gauthier]

Um, no. The clerk is being prosecuted for refusing to do the job she was hired to do. If that section of her post is that objectionable to her, she needs to relinquish the position.

These are old posts!! I don't even give a damn!! Now stop quoting me, and do the newer one's.

Welcome to NSG.

[Farnhamia]

*** Warned for flaming ***

How exactly is that a flame, what insult did I hurl, what generalization did I make?
I didn't point out their lack of reading comprehension.

I'm sorry is it against the rules to tell someone they've obviously got a chip on their shoulder or that they're so concerned with it while they're yammering from their soap box to notice when they being agreed with?

Please don't pretend there are manners required here, and by no means is fucking courtesy expected.
If he isn't expected to fucking read what he's responding to, I can't be expected to smile and pretend I said anything like what he is lodging a response to.

"[S]hove it directly up your ass along with your soap box."

[The Siverian Republic]

You know about the conscientious objector during WW1 and Vietnam? They were breaking the law for refusing to serve in the draft, but their religion is against killing. Muhammad Ali got his champion title revoked for refusing to got to Vietnam, and was breaking the law. But his religion prevents him from killing.

I'm not saying that the couple shouldn't get married.

A conscience objector is someone who objects to the carrying out a particular required role and is excused from that role. She's not a conscience objector.... he's attempting to remain attached to the role while abnegating certain parts of it.

She is free to object.... by resignation.

Oh my...!! How many times do i have I say leave my posts alone!! These are old, and i don't care about this anymore.

[The Princes of the Universe]

Oh my...!! How many times do i have I say leave my posts alone!! These are old, and i don't care about this anymore.

There's also, oh, I don't know... not coming back into the thread?

[Deuxtete]

How exactly is that a flame, what insult did I hurl, what generalization did I make?
I didn't point out their lack of reading comprehension.

I'm sorry is it against the rules to tell someone they've obviously got a chip on their shoulder or that they're so concerned with it while they're yammering from their soap box to notice when they being agreed with?

Please don't pretend there are manners required here, and by no means is fucking courtesy expected.
If he isn't expected to fucking read what he's responding to, I can't be expected to smile and pretend I said anything like what he is lodging a response to.

"[S]hove it directly up your ass along with your soap box."

Yup, not an insult. An absolutely sincere suggestion. I didn't say shove it up your illiterate, self righteous, stupid, etcetc ass.

It is safe to assume everyone here has an ass.

Oh if I had said shove it up your nose would that have been better.
I mean, really, was my language too crass for someone not bright enough to see they were being agreed with.
I didn't want to confuse an obviously easily confused person further.

[Katganistan]

Well that, or the county should employ a second county clerk willing to do this.
Of course, that does mean halving her salary to pay for the second clerk. But hey - her conscience can then be clean.

The position is an elected one. The county cannot simply "employ a second county clerk."

Then they need to have a special election to replace her with someone willing to do her job, and willing to let her staff do their job.

[Gauthier]

This is the one time Total Recall should not be just a movie.

[Deuxtete]

And charge her with violating the civil rights of the people she wouldn't grant a license to.

[Katganistan]

Interesting twist to this on the Denver CBS outlet. Seems our intrepid defender of God's authority and Jesus' views on marriage has been married four times and during one of those marriagesmshe bore twins to her adulterous paramour. She says that's forgivable but gay marriage is totally out of the question.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 ... four-times

So.. why did people actually elect her to "validate" marriages with that track record ? It feels a bit odd to have it signed by "someone whose marriages tend to fail"..

Bit silly to say that because someone's got a bad track record with marriage they can't hand out licenses. It's like saying someone who can't sing isn't qualified to write songs.

[Farnhamia]

So.. why did people actually elect her to "validate" marriages with that track record ? It feels a bit odd to have it signed by "someone whose marriages tend to fail"..

Bit silly to say that because someone's got a bad track record with marriage they can't hand out licenses. It's like saying someone who can't sing isn't qualified to write songs.

It's really not so much that she has a bad record with it, but the "sanctity of marriage" thing that religious opponents of same-ex marriage like to throw around, and, frankly, her smug assertion that she'll be forgiven but gay marriage is out of the question.

[Katganistan]

"county clerk" is an elected position not a job description. the county clerk is responsible for running the county records office. it includes marriage licenses, voter registration, recording of land deeds and certain kinds of contracts. it has deputy clerks who do the day to day business of the office but they work at the direction of the county clerk.

To add to that the deputy clerks have stated they are willing to issue the licenses but are being stopped by Kim Davis.

All but her son.
Noooo, no nepotism there.

[Tekania]

Again why should the be forced to spend the time and money to go elsewhere when they have the Constitutional right to be married? Why should their rights be limited because one clerk does not understand that her freedom of religion is limited at the government office door?

Where in the Constitution does it say that anyone, regardless of whether or not they are gay, can marry? I'm not homophobic, just stating a fact.

10th Amendment to the constitution, and 14th Amendment to the constitution as applied by Loving v. Virginia and Obergefell v. Hodges

[Deuxtete]

To add to that the deputy clerks have stated they are willing to issue the licenses but are being stopped by Kim Davis.

All but her son.
Noooo, no nepotism there.

Don't forget she took the position after her mother left it.

[Katganistan]

She was given plenty of opportunities to not have the situation result in her arrest. She could have easily complied with court orders and issued marriage licenses or she could have resigned but she refused to do either so now she has to face the consequences.

That doesn't make me feel any better because, at the core of all this, is that she was arrested for refusing to do her job.

And if her job was EMT, or firefighter? Would you be so magnanimous about her being let off for not doing her job?

[Tekania]

Are you fucking serous... are you really fucking serious.... did you not see the colossal fucking court case about it declaring same sex marriage legal earlier in the year? It is law, as was upheld by the Supreme court.

Fucking honestly,

No wording says that they can marry, nor does a Constitutional Amendment. If they really have a problem, then get it ratified and passed, then you can judge whether or not here actions were against the law because of her religion.

SCOTUS disagrees with you, and they are the relevant authority in this matter. In short, you lost;suck it up, buttercup

[Katganistan]

BBC: Kentucky clerk jailed for defying court orders on gay marriage

It's happening.

Nothing else can be said than that it's her own damn fault. Don't want to go to jail? Listen to the courts, and don't whine about having to do your fucking job. It's immature.

And to the people who apparently think she shouldn't be punished: what do you suggest? Have her be above the law because her irrelevant sky fairy told her not to serve de geyz in a public office?

Hey, I believe in that sky fairy.

I also believe she should do her job. And the Bible suggests that as well.
"Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's...".

[Tekania]

She cannot be fired because she was an elected official, therefore she either has to be impeached or resign.

right

so she can be held in jail until she complies with the judge's order or resigns her job or is impeached out of it.

susan mcdougal sat in jail for 18 months for refusing to testify to the whitewater grand jury.

Yep, in a contempt situation one is considered to "hold the keys to their own prison" and can any time be released by lawful compliance with the order that put them there. There's no hard cap to the amount of time, no arraignment on it... the judge just has to call her every now and then and ask if they are ready to follow the order.... Though its unlikely usually for someone to stay for more than a couple of years. I've a feeling she will end up getting impeached and removed from office and that will end the confinement for her on that (though there can potentially be additional confinement imposed after the impeachment, since her acts also technically fall under Official Misconduct in the First Dedgree, which carries possible misdemeanor jail time).