God is dead and we have killed him

[Apollinis]

It is at this point that I more or less gave up on the idea of you contributing anything of any use or interest to the thread, because you've obviously not actually read anything by Nietzsche and don't understand any of his key arguments.

Nietzsche did not solely and exclusively write facts. Thus Spoke Zarathustra is a remarkable piece of literature as well as a piece of philosophy. Ecce Homo is, I've seen argued, at least in part a piece of satire. Many of his aphorisms are caustically humorous as well as/without being factual.

I saw someone else recently neatly point out the difference between prescriptive and descriptive Nietzsche, which is also something that you have to bear in mind when reading his work.

as far as I'm concerned, that makes him an irresponsible academic

when you are writing something that is meant to provide factual insight into how the world works, you have a duty to avoid inserting misleading/unclear caustic/nonsensical phrases here and there just because you can. To do so is to engage in deliberate obfuscation, which is contrary to the scholar's mission to bring truth. You can't clearly say what you say and get people to understand the truth of what you are saying, unless people understand what you are saying and aren't mislead.

Understanding what Nietzsche means is, with regards to the phrase "God is dead", not particularly difficult, just so long as you don't employ aggressive stultifying literalism.

Which is where the problem lies.

For this reason I strongly advise against mixing poetry with an academic paper/treatise. The two should basically remain separate unless you are very very cautious. And Mr. N has not been diligent or responsible.

Philosophy is not a science in the same way that chemistry, physics etc. is.
You appear to believe that it should conduct itself in the same fashion as them in terms of its writing.
To do so would be ridiculous.

Also, academically Nietzsche was a philologist. He did not write his philosophy as formal academic work within the context of a university.

[Dyakovo]

You really need to learn what sarcasm and metaphors are.

It amazes me that people still take Kefka's posts at face value.

It's occasionally amusing to do so.

[Infected Mushroom]

If someone goes to court, being charged with conspiracy to commit a crime does he get away by saying... ''When I told X that I was planning to do Y... ACTUALLY I didn't mean Y, Y is a metaphor for Z instead?''

I don't think so.

So why do people who write contradictory phrases get a free pass if they are considered by some elites to be ''a great philosopher''? Shouldn't they first have to earn that title by communicating clearly what they say and mean? Why does someone get to write something that is evidently an impossible contradiction and a statement of ignorance (really? God is dead? That's like saying water is not water) and then get credited for it as though he's actually making sense. Its like someone built a damaged puzzle... years later scholars add other pieces to make the puzzle work, and then go... oh WOW he was a brilliant toy designer. Its completely artificial and pretentious.

Nietzsche did not write contradictory phrases.
Though I must say it's cute that you're trying to maintain the pretense that you're a law student given that the reading comprehension ability you routinely demonstrate suggests a vastly lower level of education.

and yet he said God (a being who by definition cannot be killed) is dead

thats at least one example of a blatant contradiction

I know you have provided me with an interpretation of how that might be a metaphor. But unless he himself said explicitly ''when I said God was dead I actually meant X,'' to infer that he meant X (even if it may come from bits and pieces across his other writing) is just that... guesswork. You can't prove it conclusively and so he must be treated as presumptively having said what he said literally. And at face value, unless the presumption is rebutted, he's saying what is clearly a contradiction.

[Mefpan]

Nietzsche did not write contradictory phrases.
Though I must say it's cute that you're trying to maintain the pretense that you're a law student given that the reading comprehension ability you routinely demonstrate suggests a vastly lower level of education.

and yet he said God (a being who by definition cannot be killed) is dead

thats at least one example of a blatant contradiction

I know you have provided me with an interpretation of how that might be a metaphor. But unless he himself said explicitly ''when I said God was dead I actually meant X,'' to infer that he meant X (even if it may come from bits and pieces across his other writing) is just that... guesswork. You can't prove it conclusively and so he must be treated as presumptively having said what he said literally. And at face value, unless the presumption is rebutted, he's saying what is clearly a contradiction.

Psh, gods die all the time in human history, lore and myth.

[Old Tyrannia]

Allah is just Arabic for God, you know.

I'm talking about Islam, m8.

I know exactly what you mean. I'm simply pointing out that the Islamic God is God as much as the Christian version, and the statement "God is dead" does not specify one or the other. Drawing a distinction between "Allah" and "God" is about as rational as doing so between "Dieu" and "God." After all, Arabic Christians call God "Allah" as well, and British Muslims often refer to Allah as God.

[Infected Mushroom]

and yet he said God (a being who by definition cannot be killed) is dead

thats at least one example of a blatant contradiction

I know you have provided me with an interpretation of how that might be a metaphor. But unless he himself said explicitly ''when I said God was dead I actually meant X,'' to infer that he meant X (even if it may come from bits and pieces across his other writing) is just that... guesswork. You can't prove it conclusively and so he must be treated as presumptively having said what he said literally. And at face value, unless the presumption is rebutted, he's saying what is clearly a contradiction.

Psh, gods die all the time in human history, lore and myth.

when you use the word God, you need to stick to the essential character of the narrative, and in all variations of the Christian denominations (and this was especially true in Mr. N's time), God is portrayed as immortal

[Dyakovo]

the problem here is that Mr. N isn't claiming to be writing poetry or classic fiction, he's writing what he wants us to treat as facts

It is at this point that I more or less gave up on the idea of you contributing anything of any use or interest to the thread.

You waited this long? I reached that conclusion prior to even reading his first post...

[Old Tyrannia]

Hence God is dead.

Simple syllogism.

Corollary: God cannot affect me or anything else in the universe.

Hence OP just accidentally became an atheist.
Oops.

Hey, a dead god is still a god. Ask Osiris, he was chopped up and fed to the crocodiles and he's still hanging on in their thanks to the missus and her magic. Shame about the missing part, though.

[Mefpan]

Psh, gods die all the time in human history, lore and myth.

when you use the word God, you need to stick to the essential character of the narrative, and in all variations of the Christian denominations (and this was especially true in Mr. N's time), God is portrayed as immortal

Just enemy propaganda, I'm sure of it.

[Infected Mushroom]

as far as I'm concerned, that makes him an irresponsible academic

when you are writing something that is meant to provide factual insight into how the world works, you have a duty to avoid inserting misleading/unclear caustic/nonsensical phrases here and there just because you can. To do so is to engage in deliberate obfuscation, which is contrary to the scholar's mission to bring truth. You can't clearly say what you say and get people to understand the truth of what you are saying, unless people understand what you are saying and aren't mislead.

Understanding what Nietzsche means is, with regards to the phrase "God is dead", not particularly difficult, just so long as you don't employ aggressive stultifying literalism.

Which is where the problem lies.

For this reason I strongly advise against mixing poetry with an academic paper/treatise. The two should basically remain separate unless you are very very cautious. And Mr. N has not been diligent or responsible.

Philosophy is not a science in the same way that chemistry, physics etc. is.
You appear to believe that it should conduct itself in the same fashion as them in terms of its writing.
To do so would be ridiculous.

Also, academically Nietzsche was a philologist. He did not write his philosophy as formal academic work within the context of a university.

Either you should be an academic (in which case, whether you are a philosopher or a chemistry scholar) your purpose is to bring truth or enlightenment to people in which case I would say you have a responsibility to explain what you are talking about or what your conclusions are and how you've reached them in understandable language (and that means either you refrain from using confusing metaphors or when you use them, you explain immediately and clearly what you mean)...

OR...

You are an artist, whereby perhaps you are a poet and you operate without restriction because your main purpose is to provide aesthetic pleasure and education/enlightenment is either an incidental or a non-existent purpose subject to the specific whim of the artist involved

A person shouldn't be allowed to be both because when they are both, it results in obfuscation and that is a grave sin

Whether you are in philosophy, philology, chemistry, or mathematics, I feel that you have a duty of clarity. You are here to advance the sum of human knowledge, not to create art. If you want to create it, then divorce yourself from academia please.

[Eol Sha]

Although Nietzsche was a god-fearing atheist and his quote is positive, I believe it is negative. I think God has died because of our corrupt, open society, where there is no objective sense of right and wrong. Instead, I propose to resurrect God and avenge him.

God is probably off creating other universes, dimensions, multiverses, etc. He probably doesn't have the time, desire, or inclination to worry about our petty squabbles.

[The United Countries of America]

Jesus is the SON of God, not GOD himself. Learn 2 Christianity, brah.

Oh look, an Arian!

Oh please. I'm far from it.

[Dyakovo]

Nietzsche did not write contradictory phrases.
Though I must say it's cute that you're trying to maintain the pretense that you're a law student given that the reading comprehension ability you routinely demonstrate suggests a vastly lower level of education.

and yet he said God (a being who by definition cannot be killed) is dead.

You not understanding does not make it contradictory.

[Old Tyrannia]

Oh look, an Arian!

Oh please. I'm far from it.

You were one up until I corrected you earlier - unless you are simply a misinformed non-believer. If the former is true, I ought to get a special medal from the Church for converting another heretic to the True Faith as agreed upon by the First Council of Nicaea. Why, there might even be a sainthood in it for me.

[Napkiraly]

Although Nietzsche was a god-fearing atheist and his quote is positive, I believe it is negative. I think God has died because of our corrupt, open society, where there is no objective sense of right and wrong. Instead, I propose to resurrect God and avenge him.

No way.

When we meet aliens from outer space, we'll yell:

We poison our air and water to weed out the weak!
We set off fission bombs in our only biosphere!
We nailed our god to a stick!
Don't fuck with the human race!

That's actually probably a far better deterrent to an alien invasion than anything else proposed in science fiction media.

[The United Countries of America]

Oh please. I'm far from it.

You were one up until I corrected you earlier - unless you are simply a misinformed non-believer. If the former is true, I ought to get a special medal from the Church for converting another heretic to the True Faith as agreed upon by the First Council of Nicaea. Why, there might even be a sainthood in it for me.

I was simply misunderstood and tried to make a joke from that misunderstanding, that's all that's happened. Please don't kill me.

[Glamour]

If you believe the Bible, God has already died, been resurrected after 3 days, disappeared on an interstellar journey and will be back to avenge Himself and everyone else that the world ever fucked over at the end of time.

[Old Tyrannia]

You were one up until I corrected you earlier - unless you are simply a misinformed non-believer. If the former is true, I ought to get a special medal from the Church for converting another heretic to the True Faith as agreed upon by the First Council of Nicaea. Why, there might even be a sainthood in it for me.

I was simply misunderstood and tried to make a joke from that misunderstanding, that's all that's happened. Please don't kill me.

That's alright. Now you will go away from this thread just a little bit more informed about the Christian faith.

[Jacobania]

No way.

When we meet aliens from outer space, we'll yell:

We poison our air and water to weed out the weak!
We set off fission bombs in our only biosphere!
We nailed our god to a stick!
Don't fuck with the human race!

That's actually probably a far better deterrent to an alien invasion than anything else proposed in science fiction media.

I can already see it now...

Steven Spielberg's Aliens on Sticks! In theaters this Friday!

[Annihilators of Chan Island]

Understanding what Nietzsche means is, with regards to the phrase "God is dead", not particularly difficult, just so long as you don't employ aggressive stultifying literalism.

Which is where the problem lies.


Philosophy is not a science in the same way that chemistry, physics etc. is.
You appear to believe that it should conduct itself in the same fashion as them in terms of its writing.
To do so would be ridiculous.

Also, academically Nietzsche was a philologist. He did not write his philosophy as formal academic work within the context of a university.

Either you should be an academic (in which case, whether you are a philosopher or a chemistry scholar) your purpose is to bring truth or enlightenment to people in which case I would say you have a responsibility to explain what you are talking about or what your conclusions are and how you've reached them in understandable language (and that means either you refrain from using confusing metaphors or when you use them, you explain immediately and clearly what you mean)...

OR...

You are an artist, whereby perhaps you are a poet and you operate without restriction because your main purpose is to provide aesthetic pleasure and education/enlightenment is either an incidental or a non-existent purpose subject to the specific whim of the artist involved

A person shouldn't be allowed to be both because when they are both, it results in obfuscation and that is a grave sin

Whether you are in philosophy, philology, chemistry, or mathematics, I feel that you have a duty of clarity. You are here to advance the sum of human knowledge, not to create art. If you want to create it, then divorce yourself from academia please.

"A person shouldn't be allowed to be both"
.
.
.
That statement in particular makes me sad.
How boring your ideal world would be, Infected Mushroom.

The arts would be meaningless pretty things with no social/philosophical or political purpose, even if the creator wanted to add them while the great works of philosophy would be dull, dryer than the Sahara Desert affairs, even if the writer could think up of metaphors to make the idea easier to understand and more pleasant to read.

[Annihilators of Chan Island]

That's actually probably a far better deterrent to an alien invasion than anything else proposed in science fiction media.

I can already see it now...

Steven Spielberg's Aliens on Sticks! In theaters this Friday!

I'd pay good money to watch that. In fact, I'd go to the cinema to see that.

[Frisbeeteria]

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Thread locked.