Leftists have, can, and should oppose Islam

[Wallenburg]

Only the most extreme Marxists want to actively destroy religion. The average liberal opposes its overreach into government and law. Also, why do you specify Islam? Why not Christianity, or Judaism, or Hinduism, or Zoroastrianism, or Saddleback Churchianism?

Because Islamic terrorism is kind of in the news nowadays, don't ya know.

And that justifies persecuting 1.6 billion people for their faith?

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Because Islamic terrorism is kind of in the news nowadays, don't ya know.

And that justifies persecuting 1.6 billion people for their faith?

wat

when did i say that

You said "why did he specify Islam." I honestly find it funny you need to ask that.

[Shrillland]

Because Islamic terrorism is kind of in the news nowadays, don't ya know.

And that justifies persecuting 1.6 billion people for their faith?

erm...no. He specifies Islam because it's people from that particular religion that are making so much hostile noise at the moment, at least in this part of the world.

[Wallenburg]

And that justifies persecuting 1.6 billion people for their faith?

wat

when did i say that

You said "why did he specify Islam." I honestly find it funny you need to ask that.

Well, Christian fundamentalism has been in the news, why didn't he mention that?

[Shrillland]

wat

when did i say that

You said "why did he specify Islam." I honestly find it funny you need to ask that.

Well, Christian fundamentalism has been in the news, why didn't he mention that?

Fair enough.

[Neo Telangana]

I don't. I'm not picking a sports team to root for, I'm having a loosely organized set of policy questions being slotted into an arbitrary binary of political thought in order to reduce several complex ideas into a versus narrative. I'm 'left' because more of the choices on this scale come down on what has currently been determined as 'left' than right. As to whose jersey that puts me in I have little to no interest as I am not going to base other decisions on what the 'team' does, past or present.

If you do not consider yourself a leftist, then the OP of this thread does not concern you. You will notice that the title of this thread is, "Leftists have, can, and should oppose Islam".

Again, you should not get your impressions of the left you say you belong to from the characterizations on right wing AM radio. Because this is rhetoric. You're shaming into action based on a definition of the people you're arguing against so that they have to answer that instead of actually proposing an idea. It's unbecoming. Don't do it.

What makes you think my impressions of left-wing apologia comes from what the right-wing says? They don't. My impressions are derived from what I have read and heard self-proclaimed leftists say online and in everyday life. You can see some of these left-wing apologetics even on this very thread.

And this I suppose is why you're doing it. Because this is basically the right's policy stance, that them there Muslims can't handle democracy. But if you said that you wouldn't get to be part of the 'left' to say that. At least in American terms, this is the the side of the issue that the conservative right has staked out. So, you figure, if you can make it seem like a 'left' idea then we'll all go, "Wait, I'm on the left...I should believe this too then."

I'm not sure if you've been paying attention to news for the past decade, but the administration of George W. Bush (generally considered to be right-wing) launched major military interventions in two Islamic countries with the explicitly stated goal of introducing democracy to these regions (other motives may have also played a role). I was/am opposed to these interventions on the basis that they have promoted the destabilization of the greater Middle East, are a waste of American resources, and are ultimately doomed to fail due to the fact that Iraq and Afghanistan are not Sweden or Denmark.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

wat

when did i say that

You said "why did he specify Islam." I honestly find it funny you need to ask that.

Well, Christian fundamentalism has been in the news, why didn't he mention that?

Because there isn't a Christian State controlling a massive land area and beheading/stoning people and ruining centuries of history and art? I don't fucking know.

[Aethrys]

And? There are still extremist Christians who kill people over what they view as sin and whatnot.

Your missing the point. You cannot be an extremist christian and kill. Such extremism is not because of faith, its lack thereof. An extreme christian gives everyone hugs and pours you a drink. *gives internet hug* the westboro baptist church for example...extremely bad Christians....mother theresa, people who work at soup kitchens...true extremists.
do not judge the church by those who barely live by its principles, but those who live closest to it- Fulton j sheen.

If Mother Theresa is an example of a true Christian, then the word should be a horrible insult. She was known to withhold medical treatment and pain medication from the sick on the grounds that suffering brought those under her care closer to god.The "charity" that she spawned has taken in millions in donations. To this day the missionaries of charity continue to illegally conceal how these massive sums are used, and there are millions of dollars given to them that remain unaccounted for. Hitchens exposed her cruelty and fraud years ago.

Unless you want your religion represented by a con artist and sadist who watched the poor suffer and die while misappropriating funds given for their relief, Mother Theresa is not the representative you want.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/iv- ... 21363.html

[Dakini]

I'm not sure why people on the left side of the political spectrum should oppose Islam or religion in general. Not everyone who supports left-wing viewpoints is non-religious (indeed, some of them are Muslim).

I think that most "leftists" do oppose fundamentalist takes on religion, which includes fundamentalist Islam.

[Sociobiology]

Well, Christian fundamentalism has been in the news, why didn't he mention that?

Because there isn't a Christian State controlling a massive land area and beheading/stoning people and ruining centuries of history and art? I don't fucking know.

that's right Christians have better technology so they prefer bombs and shooting doctors instead.

[Sebtopiaris]

Which modern Islam does not. Rather it is those who oppose Islam in general for a few fringe people who are inherently evil who have identified as Islam define their view on the entire religion and those who believe in it.

That's why that guy who held up a Sydney cafe in the name of allah was radicalised in a local mosque.
Because the clergy have no say in this. No siree. No way jose.

[Sebtopiaris]

do not judge the church by those who barely live by its principles, but those who live closest to it- Fulton j sheen.

Pretty sure that means I can dis Islam, because their fucking book tells you to stone gays and cut thieves hands off.

[Sebtopiaris]

Because there isn't a Christian State controlling a massive land area and beheading/stoning people and ruining centuries of history and art? I don't fucking know.

that's right Christians have better technology so they prefer bombs and shooting doctors instead.

But the west does it for natural resources and geopolitical reasons. Which is also fucked up, might I add.
Meanwhile, a bunch of chickenshit extremists are killing people quite proudly in the name of god.
Which one is for religion?

[Turd Rice]

People should oppose and criticize violent doctrines, no matter who, where and what to criticize. Even though western Muslims are fairly moderate, that doesn't mean their religion is exempt from criticism.

[Sebtopiaris]

though western Muslims are fairly moderate

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-09/m ... on/6379384
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/islam/the ... n-muslims/
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinio ... 03049.html
It's actually more of a problem with those in the west, because they are marginalised for their background more often/

[Turd Rice]

though western Muslims are fairly moderate

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-09/m ... on/6379384
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/islam/the ... n-muslims/
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinio ... 03049.html
It's actually more of a problem with those in the west, because they are marginalised for their background more often/

I don't know what you're talking about. Islamic terrorism is next to nonexistent compared to other forms of terrorism in Europe, Oceania and the Americas. That's what I meant.

[Imperializt Russia]

Have leftists forgotten what it means to be a leftist?

Have you?

[Sebtopiaris]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-09/m ... on/6379384
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/islam/the ... n-muslims/
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinio ... 03049.html
It's actually more of a problem with those in the west, because they are marginalised for their background more often/

I don't know what you're talking about. Islamic terrorism is next to nonexistent compared to other forms of terrorism in Europe, Oceania and the Americas. That's what I meant.

Except when it does happen, it tends to be pretty major and awful shit.
Also, radicalisation is actually more common here amongst the general (Muslim) populace than in the Middle East. Probably because of the marginalisation that many of them experience.

doesn't mean they should hurt people tho.

[Victoriala]

People have a right to freedom of religion. We should criticize religious beliefs and practices we believe are wrong, but we must never stereotype or hate the people who follow other religious or deny them their right to practice their beliefs, provided those beliefs don't actually hurt anyone or otherwise violate their rights.

Didn't stop the militant atheists.

[Turd Rice]

I don't know what you're talking about. Islamic terrorism is next to nonexistent compared to other forms of terrorism in Europe, Oceania and the Americas. That's what I meant.

Except when it does happen, it tends to be pretty major and awful shit.
Also, radicalisation is actually more common here amongst the general (Muslim) populace than in the Middle East. Probably because of the marginalisation that many of them experience.

doesn't mean they should hurt people tho.

It is made to be pretty major and awful shit. If we are to compare the Charlie Hebdo shooting to what ISIS or Boko Haram has done, the CH shooting is pretty mild.

[Victoriala]

do not judge the church by those who barely live by its principles, but those who live closest to it- Fulton j sheen.

Pretty sure that means I can dis Islam, because their fucking book tells you to stone gays and cut thieves hands off.

The old testament did the former, though.

[Turd Rice]

Pretty sure that means I can dis Islam, because their fucking book tells you to stone gays and cut thieves hands off.

The old testament did the former, though.

Which means we should dis Christianity as well.

[Terricon]

We should support Islam because its adherants fight against Imperialism. At this moment, the Arabic world faces its greatest threat by foreign powers. When we took down the Islamic based government in Libya, the country went into and continues to now, be a place of great turmoil and a breeding ground for terrorism. In Syria now, the secular government led by Assad (a Muslim) is fighting foreign backed extremists. The Islamic group Hezbollah is fighting in the latter country and Lebanon to oppose foreign funded extremism and protect minorities. I'm sorry that you can't appreciate these anti Imperialists because your an "edgy atheist" who won't tolerate a second of any religious institution ever.

[Turd Rice]

We should support Islam because its adherants fight against Imperialism. At this moment, the Arabic world faces its greatest threat by foreign powers. When we took down the Islamic based government in Libya, the country went into and continues to now, be a place of great turmoil and a breeding ground for terrorism. In Syria now, the secular government led by Assad (a Muslim) is fighting foreign backed extremists. The Islamic group Hezbollah is fighting in the latter country and Lebanon to oppose foreign funded extremism and protect minorities. I'm sorry that you can't appreciate these anti Imperialists because your an "edgy atheist" who won't tolerate a second of any religious institution ever.

We shouldn't support Islam. We should support the fighters, who happen to be Muslim. Islam has nothing to do with it. Learn the difference.

[Neo Telangana]

We should support Islam because its adherants fight against Imperialism.

That's not a sound reason. The enemy of my enemy is NOT automatically my friend. Groups like Hezbollah and the clerics of Iran are diametrically opposed to leftist values and ideology. Why the hell should I support them and their barbaric ideals of hating atheists, apostates, gays, and anyone else who is at odds with Islam?