US Diplomat says "EU countrie need to spend more on Defence"

[United North Atlantic States]

NATO is currently a great defense against the Russians. Ukraine would still be whole if it was in NATO. Although some on this site would deny it, NATO is very helpful for Europe and they should contribute what they agreed on.

I agree 100%.

[Conserative Morality]

They are slamming the Russians for military aggression while just 11 years earlier they kicked out an unfriendly regime in Iraq and replaced it with a puppet over pure suspicion.

There are a number of differences.

First, that the West was hardly united in the endeavor. It was more like "The US and a few others". Most of NATO wasn't even involved.

Second, that it *was* condemned within the West as an illegal war basically from day one.

Third, that it annexed no territory and imposed no government; whatever you may think of Iraq's current regime (or the regime that was current for the past decade or so) we struggled over every inch of cooperation with them. And eventually, we packed up and left precisely because they took a stand, like they had so many times before, and we were tired of playing politics with them to get our way.

Fourth, we sure as hell didn't fucking deny it when US troops entered Iraq, nor did we violate the Geneva Conventions by fighting as unlawful combatants with removed insignia.

"The West does shitty things" /=/ "The West's shitty thing is like all others"

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

Any recent examples of that, as in since WWII?

Like the Kyoto Protocol

The one we stayed in until it expired in 2012? In what ways did we not meet our obligations under the Kyoto Protocol?

and that masquerade of the Copenhagen Accord?

The one that's not legally binding? And was basically just a resolution to do our best to reduce GHGs?

Or Nixon directing the suspension of the dollar's convertibility into gold?

What treaty was involved with that?

[Camelza]

4.4% of your GDP actually. I don't get why my country pays 2,7%-3% of its GDP for military spending, especially when we have far more important cases to deal with, like battling poverty. So, I don't like it when a US diplomat says we have to pay more to buy their jets and shiny boomsticks.

Bae makes jets and shiny broomsticks, don't have to buy ours.

Truth be told, your boomsticks are in general less expensive. Also, my point is that my country meets the Nato creteria but that US diplomat demands to "lessen the gulf", so I presume that means an even bigger military expenditure even for countries that are well above the 2% threshold.

[Blakullar]

Um.
A "Puppet"?
It's... a democratically elected state.
Overseen by the UN, those elections, by the way.

I will be mightily impressed if you can convince me that an election where the occupying forces banned parties that didn't kowtow to their will (like the ousted Baath Party) from putting forward candidates was even remotely democratic.

---

Maybe I do support Russia in this kerfuffle*, but I would do so only because of the West's massive hypocrisy in this situation.
*Before you start hollering about my purported treachery against all things Freedom™ with no warning whatsoever, I have not actually taken any sides in regards to the Ukraine conflict.

How is hypocrisy on one side a reason for you to side with the other? How does that logically follow???

Without making a sarcastic comment that will likely land me in trouble with the mods for baiting, I'm going to point you to the small text in my post. If you can't see it, it says that I have not taken sides in the Ukraine conflict.

[Fartsniffage]

4.4% of your GDP actually. I don't get why my country pays 2,7%-3% of its GDP for military spending, especially when we have far more important cases to deal with, like battling poverty. So, I don't like it when a US diplomat says we have to pay more to buy their jets and shiny boomsticks.

Bae makes jets and shiny broomsticks, don't have to buy ours.

I thought it was the Germans pioneering the offensive uses for broomsticks?

[Ethel mermania]

Bae makes jets and shiny broomsticks, don't have to buy ours.

Truth be told, your boomsticks are in general less expensive.

I am so sorry to hear that. We have 600 dollar toliet seats on air force planes.

[Conserative Morality]

I will be mightily impressed if you can convince me that an election where the occupying forces banned parties that didn't kowtow to their will (like the ousted Baath Party) from putting forward candidates was even remotely democratic.

"No entity or program, under any name, may adopt racism, terrorism, the calling of others infidels, ethnic cleansing, or incite, facilitate, glorify, promote, or justify thereto, especially the Saddamist Ba'ath in Iraq and its symbols, regardless of the name that it adopts. This may not be part of the political pluralism in Iraq."

Approved by referendum.

[Marcurix]

I agree with the US diplomat, it's only fair countries live up to their commitments.

[The Liberated Territories]

The only thing that America needs to do is spend enough money just to defend themselves. This will prompt others to do the same.

[Conserative Morality]

The only thing that America needs to do is spend enough money just to defend themselves. This will prompt others to do the same.

Ever hear of an 'economy of scale'?

[Murbleflip]

Because all countries fit in only one of two categories: Threats and miserable puppets to be stomped on, right?

Yeah. Actually, yeah. That's been the whole of human history. That's why we have NATO - collectively, we can be a cheaper and yet more dangerous threat than we are apart.

Perhaps in history, but not today.
Take... um... ah... Mongolia.
Is Mongolia a threat to anyone? I don't think so.
Is Mongolia anyone's puppet? I... don't actually know. But I don't think so.

[Blakullar]

I will be mightily impressed if you can convince me that an election where the occupying forces banned parties that didn't kowtow to their will (like the ousted Baath Party) from putting forward candidates was even remotely democratic.

"No entity or program, under any name, may adopt racism, terrorism, the calling of others infidels, ethnic cleansing, or incite, facilitate, glorify, promote, or justify thereto, especially the Saddamist Ba'ath in Iraq and its symbols, regardless of the name that it adopts. This may not be part of the political pluralism in Iraq."

Approved by referendum.

Held in the shadow of an overpowering military threat. Reminds me of the goings-on in a certain Black Sea peninsula...

[Marcurix]

Yeah. Actually, yeah. That's been the whole of human history. That's why we have NATO - collectively, we can be a cheaper and yet more dangerous threat than we are apart.

Perhaps in history, but not today.
Take... um... ah... Mongolia.
Is Mongolia a threat to anyone? I don't think so.
Is Mongolia anyone's puppet? I... don't actually know. But I don't think so.

Depends on your definition of puppet.

[The Liberated Territories]

The only thing that America needs to do is spend enough money just to defend themselves. This will prompt others to do the same.

Ever hear of an 'economy of scale'?

You don't honestly believe that the size of the US military is at it's most efficient with regards to taxpayer dollars spent verse necessity?

[Ostroeuropa]

Approved by referendum.

Held in the shadow of an overpowering military threat. Reminds me of the goings-on in a certain Black Sea peninsula...

Held under UN supervision.
That's the key thing.
Because that way if the military threat actually shoots people for voting wrong, the world finds out.
Somewhat takes away the threat part.

[Camelza]

Bae makes jets and shiny broomsticks, don't have to buy ours.

I thought it was the Germans pioneering the offensive uses for broomsticks?

*Boomsticks, also I responded to your post, but unfortunately it was last two pages before so you may have missed it ...just so you know.

[Iwassoclose]

A lot of EU countries dont even spend the minimum 2% of their gdp on their military. Parasites the lot of them.

[Blakullar]

Held under UN supervision.
That's the key thing.
Because that way if the military threat actually shoots people for voting wrong, the world finds out.

Even if the world did find out, what really would happen? Would there be a resolution condemning America like there was over Abu Ghraib and extraordinary rendition? Oh wait, hang on a second...

[The Liberated Territories]

A lot of EU countries dont even spend the minimum 2% of their gdp on their military. Parasites the lot of them.

But it's okay! It's more efficient for murica to just defend everyone. Haven't you heard?

[Sperland]

There are a lot of rumors on the internet saying the US is going to declare martial law.
I agree that the EU needs to spend more on defense. But they can't spend to much. There are much more important things then the military. What about poor people? Greece, Ireland and other countrys will go bankrupt if they spend to much.

[Old Tyrannia]

There are a lot of rumors on the internet saying the US is going to declare martial law.

Are they indeed? I have heard nothing of this. One would think that rumours of the most powerful country on the planet declaring martial law would create something of a bigger stir, no?

[Russels Orbiting Teapot]

There are a lot of rumors on the internet saying the US is going to declare martial law.

There have been rumors about that basically forever. We have a lot of crackpots.

[Krieg-Deathworld]

There are a lot of rumors on the internet saying the US is going to declare martial law.
I agree that the EU needs to spend more on defense. But they can't spend to much. There are much more important things then the military. What about poor people? Greece, Ireland and other countrys will go bankrupt if they spend to much.

With all due respect, there are rumors on the internet that say the military and civilian leaders of the world are lizard people from Pluto.....

[Ostroeuropa]

There are a lot of rumors on the internet

I stopped reading.