California college bans American flag from part of campus

[Conserative Morality]

reform is a good thing but there's a window where you can reasonably count it among the good things your country has done and for racial segregation the united states was way past that point. it'd be like if saudi arabia finally made women equal then people starting talking about all the good things saudi arabia has done and listed all the great strides they made in womens rights as examples of how good it is. i'd probably just laugh at them and tell them that there's no way they will ever be able to list "women's rights" as a good thing their country has done.

Dunno, I'd probably list it. Just because at different points a country can be "Was a shitbird on this issue" and "Was not a shitbird on this issue" doesn't mean that the latter can't be held up as non-shitbirdery.

[United North Atlantic States]

This is hilarious. It seems that half of the discussion consists entirely of questions being asked back-and-forth without actual answers.

[Cyrisnia]

I thought that we'd all be thrilled. A group of politically active young people democraticly deciding on a resolution that they believed in. What's more American than that?

Taking down the American flag in one room, apparently.

[Novaya Equestria]

People like those bastards should be executed for banning all flags from the part of their campus.

[The New Sea Territory]

Srsly....

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2015/03/06/uc-irvine-students-vote-to-remove-american-flag-from-campus-lobby/

Students at UC Irvine have voted for a more “inclusive space” by banning the American flag on part of the campus.
Under resolution R50-70 passed Thursday, the Associated Students of UCI voted to remove all flags, including Old Glory, from a student government work room on campus, according to the Associated Students website.

A portion of the resolution reads: “(F)lags construct paradigms of conformity and sets homogenized standards for others to obtain which in this country typically are idolized as freedom, equality and democracy.”

Authored by student Matthew Guevara, the resolution goes on to state that since “the American flag has been flown in instances of colonialism and imperialism,” its display “does not express only selective aspects of its symbolism but the entire spectrum of its interpretation.”

Well...everything he said is accurate.

This is just beyond bullshit.

No, the fact that this happened due to American support for a nutjob dictator is beyond bullshit. I hope the liberals on this site will agree with me that while America is certainly guilty of its fair share of crimes and has often overstepped its constitutional boundaries,[/quote]

"Fair share" is a massive understatement. I doubt any one power has done more damage to the world than America has since the beginning of the 20th century.

it has also done many wonderful things for this world, such as ending World War II and defeating Nazi Germany,

Actually, the Soviet Union did most of the work regarding Nazi Germany's defeat. America defeated Japan.

the Civil Rights Movement and equality for minorities,

The Civil Rights Movement was anti-American. What I mean is that they opposed a large portion of American tradition by their actions and were actively opposed by American authorities because MLK was a suspected communist.

We still don't have equality for minorities today.

putting man on the moon

...is not a good measure of the virtue of a nation.

the Industrial revolution,

...was British.

and standing as a bastion of free speech

Unless it was a socialist party or union. Then we crushed them. Red Scares and all.

and enterprise throughout its 200-some year history.

Right, right, if free enterprise means corporatocracy.

I understand these students' points that the U.S. is guilty of several horrible crimes over the years (slavery, segregation, imperialism, drug war, etc., not that those are uniquely American to begin with), but it is the United States Constitution that gives these kids the right to say what they want, express how they feel, and live safely in a first-world nation.

Several is too weak a word, and yes, use of a nuclear weapon is uniquely American.

These kids, along with many people who share this sentiment, would do things like this regardless of it's legality according to the Constitution.

I say this not as some faux-patriot sissy but as a decent American that our flag should be flown with pride as it represents,

No. If anything, it should be burned or used as a door mat, for the people of Mexico, Venezuela, Guatemala, Cuba, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Bolivia, Chile, East Timor, Indonesia, the Congo, South Africa, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Cambodia, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, South Korea, Qatar, Tunisia, Spain (under Franco), Greece (under 1967-74 Junta), Turkey (under 1980-91 Junta), Chad, Uganda, Ethiopia, Rwanda, Yemen and Pakistan.

in my opinion, equality, individual liberty, and the voluntary and open exchange of ideas and goods.

That is why income equality is a growing problem, people are imprisoned for nonviolent drug use or sale and intellectual property exists, right?

No we are not perfect, but what country is? And what other country has university students that would bring down their own homeland for the sake of political correctness?

There's a difference between "political correctness" and saying "America is, objectively, one of the biggest threats to world peace".

You've got to figure that if immigrants are living in America, they are damn well pleased with how it treats them. It seems that only in America that we nitpick at non-existent issues to make everyone "feel included".

Immigrants feel pleased? You mean the country where Fox News screams "DEPORT ALL E LEEEEGAHLS!" daily?

Actually, it's something the civilized world does. We try not to brazenly romanticize history and deny our history of imperialism and support for genocidal dictators.

I don't understand it. If these (public school) kids are so disgusted with the display of American memorabilia in their school, I highly suggest they ought to cut the funding they receive from the republic which the flag stands for.

Thoughts?

I'm not entirely supportive of what the students did. I would have held a flag burning ceremony.

[Geilinor]

The United States of America, which involves a spectrum of things.

And you celebrate that spectrum of things?

That is what flags do - they represent groups of people. Those people are free to change their flag if that is what they want.

[Sheltopolis]

So it must be the case then that a glance at the American flag instinctively reminds most people of slavery, segregation, Jim Crow, Indian genocide, and imperialism? That's quite a stretch.

What do you think it instinctively reminds people of?

To be honest I don't think it reminds people most people of anything, it's just a flag. Certainly some are more passionate than other and will get choked up at even the sight of the stars and stripes, but I feel most people are indifferent.

[American California]

I applied to this school too...


Well if I end up going there, I'm going to spend my lazy Sunday afternoons trolling them with my flag.

[The Grim Reaper]

And you celebrate that spectrum of things?

That is what flags do - they represent groups of people. Those people are free to change their flag if that is what they want.

But you believe that these students are obligated to have a flag of their choice flying, for some odd reason.

[Geilinor]

No. If anything, it should be burned or used as a door mat, for the people of Mexico, Venezuela, Guatemala, Cuba, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Bolivia, Chile, East Timor, Indonesia, the Congo, South Africa, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Cambodia, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, South Korea, Qatar, Tunisia, Spain (under Franco), Greece (under 1967-74 Junta), Turkey (under 1980-91 Junta), Chad, Uganda, Ethiopia, Rwanda, Yemen and Pakistan.

Who are you to decide for those people what should be done?

[United Russian Soviet States]

I applied to this school too...


Well if I end up going there, I'm going to spend my lazy Sunday afternoons trolling them with my flag.

They need good old American values.

[Geilinor]

That is what flags do - they represent groups of people. Those people are free to change their flag if that is what they want.

But you believe that these students are obligated to have a flag of their choice flying, for some odd reason.

No, I'm criticizing their reasoning for doing so.

[United North Atlantic States]

No. If anything, it should be burned or used as a door mat, for the people of Mexico, Venezuela, Guatemala, Cuba, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Bolivia, Chile, East Timor, Indonesia, the Congo, South Africa, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Cambodia, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, South Korea, Qatar, Tunisia, Spain (under Franco), Greece (under 1967-74 Junta), Turkey (under 1980-91 Junta), Chad, Uganda, Ethiopia, Rwanda, Yemen and Pakistan.

Who are you to decide for those people what should be done?

I think you missed the obvious idiom in the phrase "it should be burned or used as a door mat".

[The New Sea Territory]

No. If anything, it should be burned or used as a door mat, for the people of Mexico, Venezuela, Guatemala, Cuba, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Bolivia, Chile, East Timor, Indonesia, the Congo, South Africa, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Cambodia, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, South Korea, Qatar, Tunisia, Spain (under Franco), Greece (under 1967-74 Junta), Turkey (under 1980-91 Junta), Chad, Uganda, Ethiopia, Rwanda, Yemen and Pakistan.

Who are you to decide for those people what should be done?

I am pointing out that many of them endured brutal dictators, genocides, civil wars or nuclear bombings due to the actions of the US government throughout history.

Burning an American flag is showing respect to the victims of American interventionism.

[Eastern Equestria]

Who are you to decide for those people what should be done?

I am pointing out that many of them endured brutal dictators, genocides, civil wars or nuclear bombings due to the actions of the US government throughout history.

Burning an American flag is showing respect to the victims of American interventionism.

[American California]

I applied to this school too...


Well if I end up going there, I'm going to spend my lazy Sunday afternoons trolling them with my flag.

They need good old American values.

Nah, they just need to go outside.

[Geilinor]

Who are you to decide for those people what should be done?

I think you missed the obvious idiom in the phrase "it should be burned or used as a door mat".

Yes, for the sake of other people NST can't claim to represent.

[Zakuvia]

I wonder what these beatniks would think if I burned the Palestinian flag...

[The New Sea Territory]

I am pointing out that many of them endured brutal dictators, genocides, civil wars or nuclear bombings due to the actions of the US government throughout history.

Burning an American flag is showing respect to the victims of American interventionism.

Are you denying anything I've said? Perhaps there are other ways of recognizing the destruction America has caused in all these countries. However, you can't deny that impact that American intervention has had on all those countries is extremely negative.

[The New Sea Territory]

I think you missed the obvious idiom in the phrase "it should be burned or used as a door mat".

Yes, for the sake of other people NST can't claim to represent.

I never claimed to represent them, but I am illustrating a point to the OP that American presence around the world has done more than just a "fair share" of bad.

[Conserative Morality]

Are you denying anything I've said? Perhaps there are other ways of recognizing the destruction America has caused in all these countries. However, you can't deny that impact that American intervention has had on all those countries is extremely negative.

All of them? Hardly. Some of them our influence has been overall positive, on others, overall negative. Making a big show of disowning everything associated with previous administrations means and does nothing except play to the middle-class guilt of some people. Much better is to make amends and assist all with a spirit of international brotherhood.

[The Liberated Territories]

I wonder how much money the taxpayer can save by removing the flags from all public schools? Plus no one will have to do that bs pledge anymore.

[Conserative Morality]

I never claimed to represent them, but I am illustrating a point to the OP that American presence around the world has done more than just a "fair share" of bad.

Disrespecting one group is hardly showing respect to another. If I disrespect Russia, that doesn't mean that I respect gay rights. I could be a raging homophobe who believes that the gays are going to hell.

[The New Sea Territory]

I wonder how much money the taxpayer can save by removing the flags from all public schools? Plus no one will have to do that bs pledge anymore.

Lol.

[Zakuvia]

I wonder how much money the taxpayer can save by removing the flags from all public schools? Plus no one will have to do that bs pledge anymore.

*sniff* and here I was THAT close to reintroducing the Bellamy Salute...meany.