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by Brillnuck » Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:06 am
Dalcaria wrote:Sebastianbourg wrote:How exactly would the monarch in this elective monarchy of yours be elected?
Well the first monarch him or herself would need to be straight up elected by the people, then they'd have to run a referendum that covers both a new constitution for the nation (a constitution not even the monarch may overrule) and whether people want the monarch candidate to be their monarch. If they say no, then he or she stays a regular politician and the system doesn't change. If they say yes, then he or she will become the monarch of the nation. Now, how monarchs are chosen in the future I'm still working on. I think the previous monarch could be a good judge of who could be the next monarch, but assuming there are reasons that may not work, a collaboration between parliament, all the important government and even non-government institutes in the nation, and the people themselves, could work together on deciding who is best to take up the crown next. Preferably it would be someone in the family, but if there is a better candidate outside, they may assume the throne as a sort of "Prince Regent" or something, until a more suitable heir from the family can be chosen.
by Fortschritte » Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:07 am
by Old Tyrannia » Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:08 am
-The West Coast- wrote:People have long preferred others thinking for them, so a Monarchy was a great and easy form of government for centuries during the Dark Ages where most of the people living under a monarch were uneducated peasants and farmers. Now its nonsense with the advent of democracy and its popularity since the birth of the United States.
by Soselo » Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:10 am
Sebastianbourg wrote:Manisdog wrote:You must have been seeing the Pro-Britain lobby, my friend it is because they are taught that way and fed that crap since school, also it is illegal to hold republican views over there
Here comes NSG's resident Anglophobe, Manisdog! FYI Manisdog, while it is technically treason to call for the abolition of the monarchy no-one has been tried for treason because of holding republican views since the mid-19th century. Yes, that law should be repealed but it's not like we throw all republicans in jail at Her Majesty's pleasure.
by Brillnuck » Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:15 am
Manisdog wrote:You must have been seeing the Pro-Britain lobby, my friend it is because they are taught that way and fed that crap since school, also it is illegal to hold republican views over there
by Solorni » Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:17 am
by -The West Coast- » Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:30 am
The Nihilistic view wrote:-The West Coast- wrote:People have long preferred others thinking for them, so a Monarchy was a great and easy form of government for centuries during the Dark Ages where most of the people living under a monarch were uneducated peasants and farmers. Now its nonsense with the advent of democracy and its popularity since the birth of the United States.
People have long preferred others thinking for them, so a Democracy was a great and easy form of government for centuries during the Darker Ages where most of the people living under a Democracy were uneducated Industrial Workers and Working class in general. Now its nonsense with the advent of Direct Democracy and its popularity since the birth of the Athens.
by The Nihilistic view » Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:50 am
-The West Coast- wrote:The Nihilistic view wrote:
People have long preferred others thinking for them, so a Democracy was a great and easy form of government for centuries during the Darker Ages where most of the people living under a Democracy were uneducated Industrial Workers and Working class in general. Now its nonsense with the advent of Direct Democracy and its popularity since the birth of the Athens.
Thanks for turning my post into something that doesn't make sense.
by Martean » Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:06 am
The Austrians and Slovenes wrote:Lalaki wrote:I come from a country with a strong republican tradition. What I find is that Americans tend to be united based on national identity and common ideals instead of a monarch.
Ultimately it is up to the nation and its culture whether or not there should be a monarchy. I would prefer that the US remains a republic (as we don't have a tradition of kings/queens and don't really need one for unity), but I am happy if another country decides differently.
America is divided between the conservatives and the so-called liberals. The monarchy provides a uniting figure beyond politics that the US doesn't have.
by Estva » Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:52 pm
Dalcaria wrote:All the problems Monarchy can or has made for people (including being an "affront" to the ideas of egalitarianism) can be said for communism and democracy too.
Dalcaria wrote: Equality doesn't happen because of one system or another, it happens because the people in charge of a system run it into the ground. The reason you won't see the equality for humans you want in a Democracy is because you're just giving the powers of a monarch to 300 incompetents.
Dalcaria wrote:The reason you won't see the equality for humans you want in a communist state is because the party (aka: the Red Bourgeoisie) can have essentially whatever they want for free, at the expense of the hard labor of the "proletariat" workers.
Dalcaria wrote: Equality comes from the hard work of people who make it happen, and it takes leaders for that, because unfortunately, mankind collectively is incapable of working together and making it happen themselves
Dalcaria wrote: (even on the small scale like the town I live in, anarchy could never work because nobody would be able to work together on anything. It's just impossible for people like this, and it's much the same in other places too).
by Sebastianbourg » Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:38 pm
Manisdog wrote:You know I am happy we got rid of those kings and queens for good, here is why monarchy plainly sucks
1) Royal prerogative gives extensive, unaccountable power to the executive.
2)The monarchy has real political power to appoint and dismiss the Prime Minister.
3)The monarchy perpetuates the class system and undermines the proper recognition of merit
4) The monarchy makes it impossible to separate Church and State
It is why certain countries with a constitution monarchy, heck my ancestors fought to get rid of monarchy, good riddance
by Sebastianbourg » Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:51 pm
Martean wrote:The Austrians and Slovenes wrote:America is divided between the conservatives and the so-called liberals. The monarchy provides a uniting figure beyond politics that the US doesn't have.
I live in a monarchy, and here the monarch has done everything but unite the people: the last time the CIS (national polling agency) asked about the question, the monarch didn't manage to even get a 4/10, and the day it snnounced its abdication, huge demonstrations aganist the monarchy and for the republic were held all around the country.
Monarchy doesn't unite, it just hides disenchantment with the monarch, (as he doesn't have to deal with elections) but this doesn't mean it unites.
by Sebastianbourg » Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:53 pm
by The Nihilistic view » Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:59 pm
Sebastianbourg wrote:Brillnuck wrote:Elective monarchies are monarchies, but they're not hereditary. The monarch would be elected every 5 years. There should also be a parliament so that the monarch doesn't go overboard.
Frankly, that's just a quasi-ceremonial presidential system in which the president is titled king/queen.
by All Natural France » Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:02 pm
-The West Coast- wrote:The Nihilistic view wrote:
People have long preferred others thinking for them, so a Democracy was a great and easy form of government for centuries during the Darker Ages where most of the people living under a Democracy were uneducated Industrial Workers and Working class in general. Now its nonsense with the advent of Direct Democracy and its popularity since the birth of the Athens.
Thanks for turning my post into something that doesn't make sense.
by Martean » Fri Nov 28, 2014 1:42 am
Sebastianbourg wrote:Martean wrote:
I live in a monarchy, and here the monarch has done everything but unite the people: the last time the CIS (national polling agency) asked about the question, the monarch didn't manage to even get a 4/10, and the day it snnounced its abdication, huge demonstrations aganist the monarchy and for the republic were held all around the country.
Monarchy doesn't unite, it just hides disenchantment with the monarch, (as he doesn't have to deal with elections) but this doesn't mean it unites.
Since Felipe VI ascended to the throne the approval rate has grown immensely. Juan Carlos was an excellent king up to the last years of his reign; he just messed up at the end.
by Dalcaria » Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:09 am
Estva wrote:Dalcaria wrote:All the problems Monarchy can or has made for people (including being an "affront" to the ideas of egalitarianism) can be said for communism and democracy too.
No, it really cannot. In democracy and communism you can indeed have a general fade of egalitarianism, but in a monarchy, it is outright stated and endorsed that there will always be a ruling family that is more important and entrenched then the rest of the populace.Dalcaria wrote: Equality doesn't happen because of one system or another, it happens because the people in charge of a system run it into the ground. The reason you won't see the equality for humans you want in a Democracy is because you're just giving the powers of a monarch to 300 incompetents.
300 "incompetents" that must compete with each other for power, preventing any one of them from consolidating too much power. Meanwhile, in an absolute monarchy, you have an unrestrained monarch perfectly willing to build a state around them and for them. At least these "incompetents" must pander to the voters before they can pass anything too drastic.Dalcaria wrote:The reason you won't see the equality for humans you want in a communist state is because the party (aka: the Red Bourgeoisie) can have essentially whatever they want for free, at the expense of the hard labor of the "proletariat" workers.
You misinterpret communism them, because the communist transitionary government is supposed to be a worker's demcoracy. Does this happen in reality? No, which is why I'm not a communist.Dalcaria wrote: Equality comes from the hard work of people who make it happen, and it takes leaders for that, because unfortunately, mankind collectively is incapable of working together and making it happen themselves
This snobbish and pampered attitude is precisely what has lead to the rise of dictatorships. Every coup was to "protect the country from the tyranny of public will". Every generalissimo, dictator, and absolute monarch who have terrorized their people spouted this nonsense. The equality these individuals are supposed to deliver never comes.Dalcaria wrote: (even on the small scale like the town I live in, anarchy could never work because nobody would be able to work together on anything. It's just impossible for people like this, and it's much the same in other places too).
And where, precisely, did I advocate anarchy?
by Smig » Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:11 am
by Dalcaria » Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:11 am
Brillnuck wrote:Dalcaria wrote:Well the first monarch him or herself would need to be straight up elected by the people, then they'd have to run a referendum that covers both a new constitution for the nation (a constitution not even the monarch may overrule) and whether people want the monarch candidate to be their monarch. If they say no, then he or she stays a regular politician and the system doesn't change. If they say yes, then he or she will become the monarch of the nation. Now, how monarchs are chosen in the future I'm still working on. I think the previous monarch could be a good judge of who could be the next monarch, but assuming there are reasons that may not work, a collaboration between parliament, all the important government and even non-government institutes in the nation, and the people themselves, could work together on deciding who is best to take up the crown next. Preferably it would be someone in the family, but if there is a better candidate outside, they may assume the throne as a sort of "Prince Regent" or something, until a more suitable heir from the family can be chosen.
Agreed.
by Sebastianbourg » Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:15 am
Martean wrote:If we add to this that the monarchy is an institution known in Spain to be as corrupt as f*ck, even the most monarchist people I know, think the monarchy wont last more than 35 years.
by CTALNH » Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:15 am
by Kaizara » Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:18 am
The Austrians and Slovenes wrote:I've been a lurker on this forum for a while and somehow I've managed to resit the urge to register and post. I've noticed there's a large number of monarchists (along with people with other eccentric political opinions).
When one looks-up 'benefits of monarchy' on Google one will be surprised at how many websites seem to have articles dedicated to this relatively-obscure subject. They all tell us the same thing; monarchies unite the people with the personification of the nation (the monarch) which is independent of politics and may cost less than ceremonial presidencies while serving as permanent (or long-term) ambassadors of the country and its people. Generally, I tend to sympathise with monarchies just because of possibly-anachronistic sentimentalism (and not because of the reasons presented above) but I'd like to know what the monarchist members and denizens of NSG have to say on why they support the aforementioned system of government.
I know there is no thread ownership in the NSG but I wouldn't like this thread to simply criticize or praise monarchies blindly; I want to know why NSG's monarchist are in fact monarchists. The arguments for a republic are quite repetitive and obvious so unless you've got an argument for a republic which you think will be unknown to the majority I'd recommend you don't post.
by The Austrians and Slovenes » Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:20 am
Smig wrote:I have no idea.
Add a "no" option to the poll.
by Dalcaria » Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:21 am
CTALNH wrote:Why is there not I am not a monarchist option? Your like alienating 90%+ of NSG man.
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