Secularism: Good or Bad?

[Galloism]

Jesus was a time traveler too?

"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill" (Matthew 5:17).

Jesus was apparently fine with absolutely everything in the OT.

Specifically, he said that "he" wasn't there to destroy it.

[Greater Beggnig]

And see, secularism is bad because it forces people to believe in millions of years and evolution. It also forces you to believe there is no God! Can you believe that?

No, it does not. Secularism doesn't force people to believe anything. We teach evolution in schools. If secularism forced people to believe in millions of years of evolution, young earth creationists such as yourself would not exist. We can teach kids evolution all we want, but they are free to hold whatever beliefs they want, no matter the facts.

[Immoren]

That sounds nothing like Jesus at all.

orly?

Deuteronomy 17
If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

Are Christians Yahwists?

[The Union of Tentacles and Grapes]

I may have been informed of this in a simplified manner, what are the specifics on it?

Well, Jesus said he was there to "fulfill the law". He did say "he" wasn't there to destroy it.

Later, Paul said that basically the law didn't apply to Christians.

However, Jesus did prophecy that Jerusalem, and the temple, would be destroyed. When the temple was destroyed, it made the law an absolute impossibility to follow, as you could no longer perform ritual sacrifice at the temple (because it was destroyed).

So... depends on your interpretation I guess.

And yet jews are still a thing, claiming that the OT isn't total nonsense.

[Greater Beggnig]

Stop making retarded posts.

That's like telling Ray Comfort to stop putting long hard things into his mouth and using that as evidence of God.

"You see, this here was clearly designed for this oreface. It is obvious that God wished for it to be used in such a way."

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Well, Jesus said he was there to "fulfill the law". He did say "he" wasn't there to destroy it.

Later, Paul said that basically the law didn't apply to Christians.

However, Jesus did prophecy that Jerusalem, and the temple, would be destroyed. When the temple was destroyed, it made the law an absolute impossibility to follow, as you could no longer perform ritual sacrifice at the temple (because it was destroyed).

So... depends on your interpretation I guess.

And yet jews are still a thing, claiming that the OT isn't total nonsense.

Do remember that to Jews, the NT doesn't apply. They do not believe Jesus was The Messiah.

Another reason to follow Hinduism. At least their pantheon is varied but they have their shit together.

[Galloism]

Well, Jesus said he was there to "fulfill the law". He did say "he" wasn't there to destroy it.

Later, Paul said that basically the law didn't apply to Christians.

However, Jesus did prophecy that Jerusalem, and the temple, would be destroyed. When the temple was destroyed, it made the law an absolute impossibility to follow, as you could no longer perform ritual sacrifice at the temple (because it was destroyed).

So... depends on your interpretation I guess.

And yet jews are still a thing, claiming that the OT isn't total nonsense.

True, but one would be remiss if he did not point out that the Jews are not following the old law as it was written. No one does.

(I make no commentary on whether this is good/bad/indifferent, simply that it's a fact)

[Flyover]

As we all know, saying that you have no official opinion on something is the exact same as choosing the thing you don't like. Therefore, the government staying neutral on religion is the exact same thing as Atheism.
Oh, and telling kids something in school is the exact same thing as making them believe it. When we discuss Communism, I became a Communist, but then we talked about Capitalism so I'm a Capitalist again. God forbid we ever even discuss other ways of thinking, lest our children become demon-worshiping AtheistsMuslimJewKenyans.

Secularism is obviously a good thing, though. Any rational person can see that.

[Immoren]

Well, Jesus said he was there to "fulfill the law". He did say "he" wasn't there to destroy it.

Later, Paul said that basically the law didn't apply to Christians.

However, Jesus did prophecy that Jerusalem, and the temple, would be destroyed. When the temple was destroyed, it made the law an absolute impossibility to follow, as you could no longer perform ritual sacrifice at the temple (because it was destroyed).

So... depends on your interpretation I guess.

And yet jews are still a thing, claiming that the OT isn't total nonsense.

To my knowledge. Modern Jews aren't (completely) same as Yahwists whom authored Deuteronomy.

[Dyakovo]

Well, Jesus said he was there to "fulfill the law". He did say "he" wasn't there to destroy it.

Later, Paul said that basically the law didn't apply to Christians.

However, Jesus did prophecy that Jerusalem, and the temple, would be destroyed. When the temple was destroyed, it made the law an absolute impossibility to follow, as you could no longer perform ritual sacrifice at the temple (because it was destroyed).

So... depends on your interpretation I guess.

And yet jews are still a thing, claiming that the OT isn't total nonsense.

I fail to see how this is at all relevant...
What jews believing has no bearing on what christians believe and vice-versa.

[The Union of Tentacles and Grapes]

And yet jews are still a thing, claiming that the OT isn't total nonsense.

I fail to see how this is at all relevant...
What jews believing has no bearing on what christians believe and vice-versa.

If the destruction of the temple was good reason to abandon the OT, somebody forgot to tell the jews. My point that the abandonment of OT double-dose crazy has no biblical origin.

[Galloism]

I fail to see how this is at all relevant...
What jews believing has no bearing on what christians believe and vice-versa.

If the destruction of the temple was good reason to abandon the OT, somebody forgot to tell the jews. My point that the abandonment of OT double-dose crazy has no biblical origin.

Uh, the jews have abandoned most of the OT in practice.

[Snakelan]

And see, secularism is bad because it forces people to believe in millions of years and evolution. It also forces you to believe there is no God! Can you believe that?

Someone just ban this mental patient, Seriously...

[Immoren]

If the destruction of the temple was good reason to abandon the OT, somebody forgot to tell the jews. My point that the abandonment of OT double-dose crazy has no biblical origin.

Uh, the jews have abandoned most of the OT in practice.

Or at least as literal account, to my knowledge.

[The New Velociraptor Empire]

And see, secularism is bad because it forces people to believe in millions of years and evolution. It also forces you to believe there is no God! Can you believe that?

Someone just ban this mental patient, Seriously...

That's just Ken Ham, please ignore him and put locks on your wallet.

[The Union of Tentacles and Grapes]

If the destruction of the temple was good reason to abandon the OT, somebody forgot to tell the jews. My point that the abandonment of OT double-dose crazy has no biblical origin.

Uh, the jews have abandoned most of the OT in practice.

Christians have abandoned most of the NT in practice, but it doesn't prevent both groups from professing total certainty in their associated texts.

[Galloism]

Uh, the jews have abandoned most of the OT in practice.

Christians have abandoned most of the NT in practice, but it doesn't prevent both groups from professing total certainty in their associated texts.

Most Christians have, yes.

[Immoren]

Bibliolatry is poisonous thing.

[The Merchant Republics]

I'm against secularism, but only on the grounds that it gives the implication that governments have a legitimacy that should be respected by the church. No thanks. Nothing belongs to Caesar.

As it stands, anarchism aside, I am pro-freedom of religion and that requires necessarily a degree of secularism in the government.

[Pope Joan]

Bibliolatry is poisonous thing.

Blind unreasoning obedience to any text is bad for you.

But that does not mean that secularism is positively good.

Let people be free to follow their own conscience and opinions.

[Harpers Ferry]

Bibliolatry is poisonous thing.

Blind unreasoning obedience to any text is bad for you.

But that does not mean that secularism is positively good.

Let people be free to follow their own conscience and opinions.

Which is exactly what secularism does.

[Immoren]

Bibliolatry is poisonous thing.

Blind unreasoning obedience to any text is bad for you.

But that does not mean that secularism is positively good.

Let people be free to follow their own conscience and opinions.

I think you might've misunderstood me
Or maybe not.

[Jumalariik]

You're simply wrong on every level.
I'm not proposing that we take the Middle East and Christianize it.
What I'm proposing is, that if Christians wish to live under Christian laws, they should be able to, and if heathens want to live under heathen laws they can. (My use of heathen is a joke, but the point still stands.) Strong decentralization. I don;t want to live in a society where nude people walk around in the streets, where I see people making out everywhere I turn my head, where churches have to marry gays, where people can have incestuous relations, if you do, that's fine. You can have an atheist society, I want a Christian one. Why not have a Cromwellian republic and a secular-anti Muslim country like France? Do all people have to live like you? Do all people have to live in a secular wet-dream?

What you are describing IS a Christianized Middle East in effect.

Explain...

[Jumalariik]

You're simply wrong on every level.
I'm not proposing that we take the Middle East and Christianize it.
What I'm proposing is, that if Christians wish to live under Christian laws, they should be able to, and if heathens want to live under heathen laws they can. (My use of heathen is a joke, but the point still stands.) Strong decentralization. I don;t want to live in a society where nude people walk around in the streets, where I see people making out everywhere I turn my head, where churches have to marry gays, where people can have incestuous relations, if you do, that's fine. You can have an atheist society, I want a Christian one. Why not have a Cromwellian republic and a secular-anti Muslim country like France? Do all people have to live like you? Do all people have to live in a secular wet-dream?

BS learn the definition of secularism.


Nude people won't walk around on the streets, people making out is already normal deal with it, churches won't have to marry gays in a secular society, incestuous relationships? You do realize that it will be very rare to see one. And basically your saying segregation. Why should Atheists be forced to leave their home or other religions due to the Totalitarian, theocratic, government.

In secular countries like Germany, there is a movement to legalize incest. Many people are becoming increasingly permissive, it's an eventuality that all the things I described would be common. Many people on NS present arguments that basically mean that churches should have to marry gays":
If a baker should serve gays mandatorilly, why not a church?
Many people would like to expand that.
I see no reason that in some places, churches should be forced to marry gays, as long as in other places, the church can have supreme power.
Basically, I have no desire to live in a country that is similar to what you envision, nor in the same one as you. You would feel the same about me. Why not have separate countries then? Why should Mass have to have the same laws on homosexuality as Texas? Mass should be able to have strict gun control, and if Texas doesn't want to, they should not have to legalize gay marriage. Simple. Secularism is a disease. If some people want to be infected, fine, just let me stay away from them.

[Communist Volkstrad]

What you are describing IS a Christianized Middle East in effect.

Explain...

Desire to create a theocracy.
Forcing your religion upon all the inhabitants.
Disdain for those who do not agree with all of your opinions.