Secularism: Good or Bad?

[Conserative Morality]

The word missing from that post is "civilized". Christianity civilized much of the world.

Christianity and Islam both nurtured the State apparatus and continue doing so throughout most of the world. Secular States have shown themselves less than able to survive without religion being inextricably tied to them.

No.

Not at all.

Your later point is difficult to dispute because of the relative recentness of secular states, but let's not play white man's burden here, eh?

[Distruzio]

Goes? I havent claimed to be anarchist in years, Norstal. Moreover, what des that have to do with you intentionally misapprehending my comments.

You don't need to be an anarchist to go off on an anti-state spiel every now and then. And I can say the same for you not understanding my posts. Maybe instead of going on personal attacks and nitpicking my choice of words, you can ask what it is you don't understand?

Nitpicking a choice of words? Somehow different than the pedantry you accused me of?

There is no confusion on my part. I stated that christianity and islam have civilized much of the world. The implication being that, in areas without significant influence from either religion, where civilization exists nonetheless it must be due to the institutionalization of other religions. Given that i did not make the claim that there was a lack of civilizing influences beyond the religions mentioned, it is clearly deduced that i was not speaking about most of the world but, rather, much of the world.

If you are confused, feel free to ask.

[Kelinfort]

The word missing from that post is "civilized". Christianity civilized much of the world.

Christianity and Islam both nurtured the State apparatus and continue doing so throughout most of the world. Secular States have shown themselves less than able to survive without religion being inextricably tied to them.

No.

Not at all.

Your later point is difficult to dispute because of the relative recentness of secular states, but let's not play white man's burden here, eh?

Take up the White Man's Burden
Send the best fries ye bake

[Distruzio]

The word missing from that post is "civilized". Christianity civilized much of the world.

Christianity and Islam both nurtured the State apparatus and continue doing so throughout most of the world. Secular States have shown themselves less than able to survive without religion being inextricably tied to them.

No.

Not at all.

Your later point is difficult to dispute because of the relative recentness of secular states, but let's not play white man's burden here, eh?

No? How not?

White mans burden? Im not clear about your meaning.

[Kelinfort]

No.

Not at all.

Your later point is difficult to dispute because of the relative recentness of secular states, but let's not play white man's burden here, eh?

No? How not?

White mans burden? Im not clear about your meaning.

What is civilisation?

[Distruzio]

No? How not?

White mans burden? Im not clear about your meaning.

What is civilisation?

If you mean "civilized" as i used it then it is the process by which society attains a more elevated stage of social development and organization.

[Kelinfort]

What is civilisation?

If you mean "civilized" as i used it then it is the process by which society attains a more elevated stage of social development and organization.

And what exactly do you mean by that? Would you consider the Mongol Empire a civilisation?

[Distruzio]

If you mean "civilized" as i used it then it is the process by which society attains a more elevated stage of social development and organization.

And what exactly do you mean by that? Would you consider the Mongol Empire a civilisation?

A civilization? Yes. Civilized? No.

[Communist Volkstrad]

And what exactly do you mean by that? Would you consider the Mongol Empire a civilisation?

A civilization? Yes. Civilized? No.

That seems contrary.

[Conserative Morality]

No? How not?

White mans burden? Im not clear about your meaning.

The world was civilized long before Islam and Christianity. They had positive and negative effects, but civilizing the world isn't among them.

[Conserative Morality]

A civilization? Yes. Civilized? No.

What?

On what grounds would you not consider the Mongol Empire under Genghis Khan civilized?

[The Union of Tentacles and Grapes]

And what exactly do you mean by that? Would you consider the Mongol Empire a civilisation?

A civilization? Yes. Civilized? No.

Yet you claim that religion is critical to becoming "civilized". The mongols were very religious, yet you say they were not civilized. What's missing then, because you have demonstrated that religion is insufficient to civilize.

[Distruzio]

No? How not?

White mans burden? Im not clear about your meaning.

The world was civilized long before Islam and Christianity. They had positive and negative effects, but civilizing the world isn't among them.

Civilizing a society is a process, CM. Not a threshold.

[Distruzio]

A civilization? Yes. Civilized? No.

That seems contrary.

I can be corrected.

[Conserative Morality]

Yet you claim that religion is critical to becoming "civilized". The mongols were very religious, yet you say they were not civilized. What's missing then, because you have demonstrated that religion is insufficient to civilize.

The early Mongol Empire counted a great number of Christians and Muslims in the ranks of their administration, even in Mongolia itself. Genghis Khan's adoptive father was a Christian. Several of his children were Christians. A Christian descendant of his tried to make a pact with European Christians against Islam. Guyuk Khan traded letters with the Pope. God, this makes me mad.

[Distruzio]

A civilization? Yes. Civilized? No.

Yet you claim that religion is critical to becoming "civilized". The mongols were very religious, yet you say they were not civilized. What's missing then, because you have demonstrated that religion is insufficient to civilize.

.... ive no idea, really. A hipfire response seems to have been made in error. I am corrected then.

[Distruzio]

Yet you claim that religion is critical to becoming "civilized". The mongols were very religious, yet you say they were not civilized. What's missing then, because you have demonstrated that religion is insufficient to civilize.

The early Mongol Empire counted a great number of Christians and Muslims in the ranks of their administration, even in Mongolia itself. Genghis Khan's adoptive father was a Christian. Several of his children were Christians. A Christian descendant of his tried to make a pact with European Christians against Islam. Guyuk Khan traded letters with the Pope. God, this makes me mad.

Indeed. Apologies. I was wrong.

[Conserative Morality]

.... ive no idea, really. A hipfire response seems to have been made in error. I am corrected then.

Apologies. I go off on this subject because the misconception is just so widespread and so terribly wrong.

Damn cultural perceptions.

[Distruzio]

.... ive no idea, really. A hipfire response seems to have been made in error. I am corrected then.

Apologies. I go off on this subject because the misconception is just so widespread and so terribly wrong.

Damn cultural perceptions.

Believe me. Bigot that i am, i feel the same way about Christianity.

[The Union of Tentacles and Grapes]

Yet you claim that religion is critical to becoming "civilized". The mongols were very religious, yet you say they were not civilized. What's missing then, because you have demonstrated that religion is insufficient to civilize.

The early Mongol Empire counted a great number of Christians and Muslims in the ranks of their administration, even in Mongolia itself. Genghis Khan's adoptive father was a Christian. Several of his children were Christians. A Christian descendant of his tried to make a pact with European Christians against Islam. Guyuk Khan traded letters with the Pope. God, this makes me mad.

I was demonstrating that his definition for "civilized" and his idea about the progress of civilization was nonsense. I'm not goint to pretend that ghengis khan didn't make a huge civilization(out of a very small one).

[Distruzio]

A civilization? Yes. Civilized? No.

What?

On what grounds would you not consider the Mongol Empire under Genghis Khan civilized?

Filthy cultural superiority and a lack of education on the subject. Poor bedfellows, really.

[Conserative Morality]

Civilizing a society is a process, CM. Not a threshold.

And I'm of the opinion that religion generally doesn't directly affect that process, and that at a certain point in the process, the world can be divided into 'broadly civilized' and 'broadly uncivilized'.

[Distruzio]

Civilizing a society is a process, CM. Not a threshold.

And I'm of the opinion that religion generally doesn't directly affect that process, and that at a certain point in the process, the world can be divided into 'broadly civilized' and 'broadly uncivilized'.

That could only be if you used a different definition than i do.

What is it?

[Archeuland and Baughistan]

I actually just want to say that I oppose secularism, so everyone is aware.

[Conserative Morality]

That could only be if you used a different definition than i do.

What is it?

Development and application of philosophical and organizational concepts in society.