Secularism: Good or Bad?

[The Alma Mater]

Then....... what is your problem with secularism because it prevents anyone from forcing religion on anyone else?

It leads to immorality.

But in general you still prefer it to the alternatives like "another religion than your own enforcing its own beliefs as laws", realising that about 70% of the worlds population does not adhere to a form of christianity of some sort ?

[Threlizdun]

Secularism is neither good or bad. It's irrelevant.

Nope, the fact that some nations have death penalties for apostasy, homosexuality, and criticizing the state faith is pretty damn relevant.

[The Orson Empire]

And you have a right to force me to secularism?

You don't actually know what "secular" means, do you?

Probably not.

[The Alma Mater]

It leads to immorality.

is there really that much of a difference between doing something from your heart than doing something because a god told you to?

Depends. Do religious people actually have such a heart - or would they be sadistic beasts without the belief that a divine being is watching and WILL judge ?
Sometimes I fear the latter, especially when they seriously declare that they do not understand what keeps atheists from doing bad things.

[Dyakovo]

We don't force you to secularism. Secularism separates church and state. It is freedom of and from religion, meaning you can go about believing whatever you want. You just can't force your beliefs on anyone else. That's it. It doesn't force you to believe in anything.

And how will I get my religious education in public schools for my children?

You don't. Religious indoctrination is the job of churches and parents, not the state.

[Fanosolia]

is there really that much of a difference between doing something from your heart than doing something because a god told you to?

Depends. Do religious people actually have such a heart - or would they be sadistic beasts without the belief that a divine being is watching and WILL judge ?
Sometimes I fear the latter, especially when they seriously declare that they do not understand what keeps atheists from doing bad things.

I think like to think the former. That's because like to give many a benefit of the doubt. Seeing that I used to be that kind of guy until I grew older, there's hope.

[Shiie]

so that means i could say you have the wrong religion then say i dont need a source for something that obvious and any argument you make will be nullified by your own statement. so Shiie you have the wrong religion acording to my unknow sourcless research.

No, you could not. I made the argument that Islam, Christianity, & Judasim don't require knife carrying and because these most acceptable religions don't need you to carry a knife to practice are most practiced, these religions are right the right religions. Do you want me to find you a moral treatise written in arabic?

[Communist Volkstrad]

What makes them right?

[Shiie]

What makes them right?

That's not the right question, their being right makes them powerful.

[Harpers Ferry]

so that means i could say you have the wrong religion then say i dont need a source for something that obvious and any argument you make will be nullified by your own statement. so Shiie you have the wrong religion acording to my unknow sourcless research.

No, you could not. I made the argument that Islam, Christianity, & Judasim don't require knife carrying and because these most acceptable religions don't need you to carry a knife to practice are most practiced, these religions are right the right religions. Do you want me to find you a moral treatise written in arabic?

So, basically because more religions don't have their followers carrying a knives as part of their faith, it means those that do are in the wrong? This some sort of bandwagon fallacy?

[The Alma Mater]

so that means i could say you have the wrong religion then say i dont need a source for something that obvious and any argument you make will be nullified by your own statement. so Shiie you have the wrong religion acording to my unknow sourcless research.

No, you could not. I made the argument that Islam, Christianity, & Judasim don't require knife carrying and because these most acceptable religions don't need you to carry a knife to practice are most practiced, these religions are right the right religions. Do you want me to find you a moral treatise written in arabic?

So if in 2000 years another religion is dominant which does require the carrying of sharp objects - that religion would be the right one ?

[Communist Volkstrad]

What makes them right?

That's not the right question, their being right makes them powerful.

What? How does being "right" make you powerful, when "right" and "wrong" are matters of opinion?

[Greater Weselton]

It leads to immorality.
I am only against progressive secularism.

How does it lead to immorality, exactly?

People ignore God in secular progressive nations.

It leads to immorality.

is there really that much of a difference between doing something from your heart than doing something because a god told you to?

No.

It leads to immorality.

But in general you still prefer it to the alternatives like "another religion than your own enforcing its own beliefs as laws", realising that about 70% of the worlds population does not adhere to a form of christianity of some sort ?

I do.

[WestRedMaple]

What makes them right?

That's not the right question, their being right makes them powerful.

The only way the question could be wrong is if the religion is NOT right.

Lacking something to make them right indicates that you actually understand they are wrong

[The Orson Empire]

Then....... what is your problem with secularism because it prevents anyone from forcing religion on anyone else?

It leads to immorality.

So then you support secularism? There isn't a non-forceful way to have religion and the state interconnected.

I am only against progressive secularism.

This doesn't change the fact that it is wrong to force your religion on others.

Let me ask you a question: do you think Jesus would have wanted Christians to force their beliefs on others?

[Communist Volkstrad]

How does it lead to immorality, exactly?

People ignore God in secular progressive nations.

is there really that much of a difference between doing something from your heart than doing something because a god told you to?

No.

But in general you still prefer it to the alternatives like "another religion than your own enforcing its own beliefs as laws", realising that about 70% of the worlds population does not adhere to a form of christianity of some sort ?

I do.

People don't ignore God in progressive secular nations. There are plenty of religious people in secular nations. It's that those people can't use their religion to restrict the rights of others.

[Fanosolia]

is there really that much of a difference between doing something from your heart than doing something because a god told you to?

No.

then the issue is?

[Greater Weselton]

It leads to immorality.
I am only against progressive secularism.

This doesn't change the fact that it is wrong to force your religion on others.

Let me ask you a question: do you think Jesus would have wanted Christians to force their beliefs on others?

I don't think he would approve of it unless it was for the secular good of man.

[Greater Weselton]

No.

then the issue is?

There is no issue here.

[Communist Volkstrad]

This doesn't change the fact that it is wrong to force your religion on others.

Let me ask you a question: do you think Jesus would have wanted Christians to force their beliefs on others?

I don't think he would approve of it unless it was for the secular good of man.

Secular good of man? How does "secular" factor in to "Jesus"?

[Shiie]

It leads to immorality.
I am only against progressive secularism.

This doesn't change the fact that it is wrong to force your religion on others.

Let me ask you a question: do you think Jesus would have wanted Christians to force their beliefs on others?

Of course Jesus would've wanted Christians to force their beliefs on others, without that Christianity wouldn't be a note in history.

[Communist Volkstrad]

This doesn't change the fact that it is wrong to force your religion on others.

Let me ask you a question: do you think Jesus would have wanted Christians to force their beliefs on others?

Of course Jesus would've wanted Christians to force their beliefs on others, without that Christianity wouldn't be a note in history.

And thus you have the Crusades, the Inquisition, Witch Trials, you know, all that fun and good stuff.

[Galloism]

This doesn't change the fact that it is wrong to force your religion on others.

Let me ask you a question: do you think Jesus would have wanted Christians to force their beliefs on others?

Of course Jesus would've wanted Christians to force their beliefs on others, without that Christianity wouldn't be a note in history.

That's why, instead of saying the disciples should shake the dust off their feet and go their way after the people didn't listen to their message, they were directed to return with swords and force them to convert or die.

[Greater Weselton]

I don't think he would approve of it unless it was for the secular good of man.

Secular good of man? How does "secular" factor in to "Jesus"?

He would have wanted some Christian beliefs forced on others.

[Anollasia]

I think it's good.