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by The Sanguinian Islands » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:08 am
by Asterdan » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:08 am
Dyakovo wrote:Valaran wrote:
I wouldn't say that it is clear that I don't believe. That I don't know if I believe would to my mind suggests that it is anything but clear.
I never mentioned strength of non-belief being the definition of atheism. On the contrary, your view seems to be that I need sufficient belief in a deity in order not to be an atheist. But whether I have the sufficient level of belief is unknown.
Because that's how it works. If you believe a deity (or deities) exist you are a theist. If you don't, you are an atheist. There are no other positions.
by Sauvage » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:08 am
Dyakovo wrote:Valaran wrote:
I wouldn't say that it is clear that I don't believe. That I don't know if I believe would to my mind suggests that it is anything but clear.
I never mentioned strength of non-belief being the definition of atheism. On the contrary, your view seems to be that I need sufficient belief in a deity in order not to be an atheist. But whether I have the sufficient level of belief is unknown.
Because that's how it works. If you believe a deity (or deities) exist you are a theist. If you don't, you are an atheist. There are no other positions.
by Eastern Equestria » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:08 am
Either way, we tend to live long, healthy lives.
We're at the top of the food chain.
Society has caused the world to end up in the mess it's in.
by Valaran » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:09 am
Dyakovo wrote:Valaran wrote:I wouldn't say that it is clear that I don't believe. That I don't know if I believe would to my mind suggests that it is anything but clear.
I never mentioned strength of non-belief being the definition of atheism. On the contrary, your view seems to be that I need sufficient belief in a deity in order not to be an atheist. But whether I have the sufficient level of belief is unknown.
Because that's how it works. If you believe a deity (or deities) exist you are a theist. If you don't, you are an atheist. There are no other positions.
Archeuland and Baughistan wrote:"I don't always nice, but when I do, I build it up." Valaran
Valaran wrote:To be fair though.... I was judging on coolness factor, the most important criteria in any war.
Zoboyizakoplayoklot wrote:Val: NS's resident mindless zombie
Planita wrote:you just set the OP on fire
by Valerion » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:10 am
Asterdan wrote:New DeCapito wrote:So what you're saying here, is that if the Bible had been created now, it would have been explained by Science?
Doesn't this imply that there is no need for Christianity?
You just made an argument against yourself.
No, because without Christianity we wouldn't have the spiritual side. I'm saying creation, etc. would have been explained more scientifically, God created Science. We'd still have the spiritual side to look at.'Eastern Equestria wrote:
Well frankly you shouldn't. The human body and the world we live in are very far from perfect, and do more to harm us than help us quite honestly. It'd be more apt to state that we've been unintelligently designed.
Did I say we were done cooking? Either way, we tend to live long, healthy lives. We're at the top of the food chain. Society has caused the world to end up in the mess that it is today.Creepoc Infinite wrote:First of all, screw you, second of all, you are 5000% wrong.
Third, explain your logic for this opinion
And fourth, I say the same about theism (for the most part)
1. I'd rather not.
2. 98% of statistics are made up on the spot
3. Everything just fits too well together. This all randomly happening just doesn't make sense. I had another thing to say, but my mind strayed and I forgot what it was...
4. How is it bleak? We look forward to living good lives, having fun, and then going on to spend eternity in an amazing land. Atheism well.... when you're done, you're done.
by Dyakovo » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:10 am
Dyakovo wrote:If you "don't know if you believe", then it is clear that you don't currently believe, ergo you are (currently at least) an atheist. Atheism is not, as you seem to believe "a strong belief in the lack of a deity", it is the lack of belief in a deity (or deities).
No... that would be "Agnosticism", which is not knowing, they believe there COULD be a God, they just don't know. Atheism is a belief that there is no God.
by Asterdan » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:10 am
New DeCapito wrote:Asterdan wrote:
No, because without Christianity we wouldn't have the spiritual side. I'm saying creation, etc. would have been explained more scientifically, God created Science. We'd still have the spiritual side to look at.
Two points:
1. Let's assume there's a god. Why would he create Science if it convinces so many people that he doesn't exist? Surely better to say, "Hi guys! I exist!" and then everyone would believe him.
2. I hope you've realised that you're trying to convert me to Christianity.
by Asterdan » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:11 am
by Anglo-California » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:12 am
by Dyakovo » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:12 am
Kalosia wrote:I think it's kinda funny how pagans and polytheists back then feared the arrival of monotheist, Abrahamic religions and saw it as a threat to their beliefs.
And then nowadays there are people who just don't worship anything or anyone. The polytheists of yesterday would be horrified.
by New DeCapito » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:13 am
Mujerpotencia wrote:New DeCapito wrote:I'm sorry, but...
Atheists take the views of science. Science works because it is based on facts that can be proven to be right.
Theists, let's say Christians, take the views of God, and the Bible. They are expected to simply believe that God exists. The Bible may appear to be evidence to God, but not every book is non-fiction.
This argument is why I cannot believe in God.
The problems with this argument are numerous, but I am going to address the principle one- that you assume that the views of science contradict the existence of a god, or that they contradict Christian theology. In fact, they confirm it. The fact that to a certain point, Science can't explain everything, that there comes a time when scientific knowledge is limited- eventually we as scientists have to look at the complexities of the natural world and ask the question, "why?" and "How?" Down to the smallest elements of matter, the electron, the proton, why do they exist? How were they created? This is where we get into theories, which are just that- theories. In a way, science is a religion as well because when it cannot explain something it poses a possible explanation.
The bible is not meant to be taken literally. The importance is in the underlying thread of truth- it is in a sense, a guide to how we can transcend our physical restrictions and impulses that tether us to science and address the world on a higher level of meaning, and become more one with god. God is not necessarily a man, but it is the easiest way to describe him in human terms- what he is we in our present state cannot comprehend because we are still tethered to our bodies.
Science, especially biomedicine, is culturally relative in many ways. Taking the ideas of science as the sacrosanct truth is actually very dangerous because it does not take into account that there are other ways of viewing a phenomenon that have an equal amount of verity
by Valerion » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:13 am
by Dyakovo » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:13 am
by Sauvage » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:14 am
Dyakovo wrote:Kalosia wrote:I think it's kinda funny how pagans and polytheists back then feared the arrival of monotheist, Abrahamic religions and saw it as a threat to their beliefs.
And then nowadays there are people who just don't worship anything or anyone. The polytheists of yesterday would be horrified.
Atheists existed at the time of the rise in influence of monotheistic religions.
by Anglo-California » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:15 am
by New DeCapito » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:16 am
Asterdan wrote:New DeCapito wrote:Two points:
1. Let's assume there's a god. Why would he create Science if it convinces so many people that he doesn't exist? Surely better to say, "Hi guys! I exist!" and then everyone would believe him.
2. I hope you've realised that you're trying to convert me to Christianity.
1. Satan can use the gifts of God just as much as we or God can. He has in the past, and he will in the future.
2. I'm explaining my beliefs, it just happens that I believe Christianity is correct, so it is the belief I will use. If I thought a different religion was correct, I'd be using that one.
by Creepoc Infinite » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:16 am
Asterdan wrote:
1. I'd rather not.
2. 98% of statistics are made up on the spot
3. Everything just fits too well together. This all randomly happening just doesn't make sense. I had another thing to say, but my mind strayed and I forgot what it was...
4. How is it bleak? We look forward to living good lives, having fun, and then going on to spend eternity in an amazing land. Atheism well.... when you're done, you're done.
by Valaran » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:16 am
Archeuland and Baughistan wrote:"I don't always nice, but when I do, I build it up." Valaran
Valaran wrote:To be fair though.... I was judging on coolness factor, the most important criteria in any war.
Zoboyizakoplayoklot wrote:Val: NS's resident mindless zombie
Planita wrote:you just set the OP on fire
by Dyakovo » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:16 am
Sauvage wrote:Dyakovo wrote:Because that's how it works. If you believe a deity (or deities) exist you are a theist. If you don't, you are an atheist. There are no other positions.
Because neutrality or simply not caring are no longer options in the american culture. You are a communist or a fascist. A worker or a thinker. A enemy or a friend.
How horrible, why can't you guys act like great white north Canada where population is tightly knit enough to give a damn about the fellow man beside them regardless of if they are friend or foe.
by Myrensis » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:18 am
by Valaran » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:18 am
Archeuland and Baughistan wrote:"I don't always nice, but when I do, I build it up." Valaran
Valaran wrote:To be fair though.... I was judging on coolness factor, the most important criteria in any war.
Zoboyizakoplayoklot wrote:Val: NS's resident mindless zombie
Planita wrote:you just set the OP on fire
by Asterdan » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:19 am
by Baiynistan » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:19 am
Anglo-California wrote:Allow me to play devil's advocate. Suppose I don't know if a god exists, and I have no desire to know. What am I?
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