Ken Ham: New York Court May Grand "Personhood" to Chimpanzee

by **Prezelly** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:46 pm

Oops double post

by **Threlizdun** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:47 pm

I'm not sure if I would go for the "personhood" definition, but I would certainly agree that chimpanzees and many other animals for that matter ought to be ensured a right to bodily autonomy and freedom from unnecessary harm.

by **Benuty** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:51 pm

Several of those sites are guaranteed to drop your IQ...just don't do it.

by **Ethel mermania** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:52 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:
Your point, I miss.

The Swiss Guard had bigger guns and the will to use them.

An angry mob butchered them.

Their guns were not big enough. Automatic weaponry kinda ended that.

by **Dyakovo** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:55 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
Dyakovo wrote:There is no scientific evidence that cats are capable of reasoning.

Au contre'

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an ... _dogs.html

While interesting, the article didn't really show that cats are capable of reasoning as defined in the criteria I gave (hint: you'd have to have read the quote I included).

by **Dyakovo** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:57 pm

Benuty wrote:Several of those sites are guaranteed to drop your IQ...just don't do it.

That's why the only one I bothered visiting was the BBC link...

by **Conserative Morality** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 3:59 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:Their guns were not big enough. Automatic weaponry kinda ended that.

Really? The Vietnamese would like to have a word with you. The French had the will to use their superior firepower, but the masses had the will to suffer any cost.

by **Benuty** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:01 pm

Dyakovo wrote:
Benuty wrote:Several of those sites are guaranteed to drop your IQ...just don't do it.

That's why the only one I bothered visiting was the BBC link...

Which is suspect itself because the OP cannot logically include that in there.

I suspect a mod did.

by **Ethel mermania** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:08 pm

Dyakovo wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Au contre'

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an ... _dogs.html

While interesting, the article didn't really show that cats are capable of reasoning as defined in the criteria I gave (hint: you'd have to have read the quote I included).

the mary warren quote? I still say my cat meets the criteria,

for example the cat knows to wake my wife up to yell at my child to feed it when he doesn't do his freaking job and feed the dam thing first thing in the morning. The cat has reasoned that my wife makes the kid do it when he has not.

Dogs and I would think most mammels meet her criteria as well
the Wikipedia article on cat intelligence seems to agree.

by **Ethel mermania** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:09 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Their guns were not big enough. Automatic weaponry kinda ended that.

Really? The Vietnamese would like to have a word with you. The French had the will to use their superior firepower, but the masses had the will to suffer any cost.

giap had more guns at dien bet phu than the French. They also had a greater will to use them. Obviously the French did not have the will to use them. Neither did the US,

can we leave the thread jack for now?

by **Bacopa** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 4:32 pm

http://youtu.be/Cdmqn9JIuzc

No. Never.

by **Gauthier** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:13 pm

Archeuland and Baughistan wrote:My opinion: I do not accept the idea that chimpanzees and animals deserve equal status with humans. This is rooted in my Biblical worldview (i.e., having dominion over animals, Gen. 1:26). Even the secularists should understand that humans are far more superior to animals.

But of course a chimpanzee fetus will be given personhood if a chimpanzee wants to get an abortion. *nod nod*

by **Ethel mermania** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:18 pm

Gauthier wrote:
Archeuland and Baughistan wrote:My opinion: I do not accept the idea that chimpanzees and animals deserve equal status with humans. This is rooted in my Biblical worldview (i.e., having dominion over animals, Gen. 1:26). Even the secularists should understand that humans are far more superior to animals.

But of course a chimpanzee fetus will be given personhood if a chimpanzee wants to get an abortion. *nod nod*

the unwed motherhood rate of young chimp's is through the roof, and every chimp deserves a fresh start

by **The Flood** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:28 pm

Chimps should not have the same rights as humans. That doesn't work. They can't vote, or use money, or own property, or drive.

But I do think they should have some additional rights that lesser animals don't have. They could, perhaps, be called persons. But that shouldn't mean they are equal to humans and have the same rights.

by **The Flood** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:31 pm

Gauthier wrote:
Archeuland and Baughistan wrote:My opinion: I do not accept the idea that chimpanzees and animals deserve equal status with humans. This is rooted in my Biblical worldview (i.e., having dominion over animals, Gen. 1:26). Even the secularists should understand that humans are far more superior to animals.

But of course a chimpanzee fetus will be given personhood if a chimpanzee wants to get an abortion. *nod nod*

Correct. If killing an adult chimp is murder, so is chimp abortion.

by **Infected Mushroom** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:53 pm

Geilinor wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
If we went to war, there is no question we would prevail in the field of battle.

This isn't Dawn of the Planet of the Apes.

Exactly. That movie isn't realistic.

If it were realistic, we would just gun them all down before we'd even have to bring in the tanks, airplanes, and artillery...

by **Gauthier** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:55 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Geilinor wrote:This isn't Dawn of the Planet of the Apes.

Exactly. That movie isn't realistic.

If it were realistic, we would just gun them all down before we'd even have to bring in the tanks, airplanes, and artillery...

You do realize it wasn't the apes that knocked the shit out of humanity, right?

by **Infected Mushroom** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:55 pm

Gauthier wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
Exactly. That movie isn't realistic.

If it were realistic, we would just gun them all down before we'd even have to bring in the tanks, airplanes, and artillery...

You do realize it wasn't the apes that knocked the shit out of humanity, right?

what do you mean?

by **Salandriagado** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:31 pm

The Flood wrote:Chimps should not have the same rights as humans. That doesn't work. They can't vote, or use money, or own property, or drive.

But I do think they should have some additional rights that lesser animals don't have. They could, perhaps, be called persons. But that shouldn't mean they are equal to humans and have the same rights.

But there are plenty of humans who lack most of those rights as well. You'll have to be very careful about what you mean by "the same rights as humans", considering how much those rights vary between humans.

by **-Ebola-** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:53 pm

This is excellent. I hope the court grants Tommy his legal rights.

by **The balkens** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:54 pm

I, for one, welcome our new chimp overlords.

by **-Ebola-** » Sat Oct 25, 2014 6:56 pm

Archeuland and Baughistan wrote:
The Liberated Territories wrote:Well...

does the chimp own himself?

Exactly. That's up for debate. I don't believe an animal can own anything, including itself. It's just an animal. It has nothing on us humans.

That is incredibly arrogant to talk that way about another living thing, especially when you yourself are not even Ebola. How can you look down on other animals when you are an animal too?

by **Imperializt Russia** » Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:52 am

Conserative Morality wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:
Your point, I miss.

The Swiss Guard had bigger guns and the will to use them.

An angry mob butchered them.

This traditionally does happen when the group with the bigger guns runs out of ammunition.

Gauthier wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
Exactly. That movie isn't realistic.

If it were realistic, we would just gun them all down before we'd even have to bring in the tanks, airplanes, and artillery...

You do realize it wasn't the apes that knocked the shit out of humanity, right?

Another unrealistic aspect in the first place, tbh.

by **The Grey Wolf** » Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:59 am

As always, Ken Ham makes a chimp out of himself and proves not only that evolution is correct, but that some of us are actually degenerating into hairy proto-apes. News at 11.

by **Alexanda** » Sun Oct 26, 2014 3:06 am

It is one thing to give the Chimpanzee and other animals good living conditions, but another to grant it the status of a person.
Zoo-animals deserve good conditions, good food, good lives, but they should not be accepted as people. They are, as their title suggests, animals.

Ken Ham: New York Court May Grand "Personhood" to Chimpanzee

Should a chimpanzee be given human rights?

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