Ken Ham: New York Court May Grand "Personhood" to Chimpanzee

[Immoren]

Because they're brothers.*nods*

And sisters. lrn2PC.

Obviously English should turn bak its clock to when "man" was gender neutral term for human and if you referd to male human you used term "were/wir",

[Geilinor]

You can deny it all you want, but petty elitism is an integral part of aristocracy.

I am not the one who came up with the erroneous idea that all people are equal.

That's what he meant by elitism.

[Big Jim P]

I am not the one who came up with the erroneous idea that all people are equal.

That's what he meant by elitism.

And what I meant by reality.

[Big Jim P]

And sisters. lrn2PC.

Obviously English should turn bak its clock to when "man" was gender neutral term for human and if you referd to male human you used term "were/wir",

Maybe we could ask the chimps for some advice.

[Conserative Morality]

I am denying nothing. I am not the one who came up with the erroneous idea that all people are equal.

This is the petty elitism of aristocratic ideals, once killed by the French Revolution, now just a shambling corpse of a philosophy.

[Big Jim P]

I am denying nothing. I am not the one who came up with the erroneous idea that all people are equal.

This is the petty elitism of aristocratic ideals, once killed by the French Revolution, now just a shambling corpse of a philosophy.

Being consumed by the explosion of vermin brought about by the rise of egalitarianism.

[Godular]

Can't be any worse than a lot of humans that are considered persons.

Indeed... Ken Ham is considered a person.

I would have sworn that the last check had him listed as a form of archaebacteria. Something that subsists off of methane I believe...

[Conserative Morality]

Being consumed by the explosion of vermin brought about by the rise of egalitarianism.

People like you disdain the masses because you know that no amount of elitism can save you from them. Power might be concentrated in the hands of the few, but force is the sole preserve of the many.

[Avenio]

Can't be any worse than a lot of humans that are considered persons.

I'm very sorry that you've come to feel that way about yourself. Truly, I am. Depression is a horrible disease and I stand in solidarity with you - as do many here on this forum. If you need anything, anything at all, just ask and we'll be happy to help.

[The Black Forrest]

Can't be any worse than a lot of humans that are considered persons.

Indeed... Ken Ham is considered a person.

No need to be insulting.

[Dyakovo]

"Lesser" animals have been granted legal personhood before.

Under what philosophical grounds? It's a legal fiction to integrate strange cases within the law, like corporations having personhood.

I'm not familiar with each case, but through philosophical argument for granting personhood to chimps is that they possess the 5 core traits of personhood:
1: Consciousness
2: Reasoning
3: Self-motivated activity
4: The ability to communicate
5: Self-awareness

the traits which are most central to the concept of personhood . . . are, very roughly, the following: 1. consciousness . . . and in particular the capacity to feel pain; 2. reasoning (the developed capacity to solve new and relatively complex problems); 3. self-motivated activity (activity which is relatively independent of either genetic or direct external control); 4. the capacity to communicate, by whatever means, messages of an indefinite variety of types . . . ; 5. the presence of self-concepts, and self-awareness. . . .

[Conserative Morality]

I'm not familiar with each case, but through philosophical argument for granting personhood to chimps is that they possess the 5 core traits of personhood:
1: Consciousness
2: Reasoning
3: Self-motivated activity
4: The ability to communicate
5: Self-awareness

the traits which are most central to the concept of personhood . . . are, very roughly, the following: 1. consciousness . . . and in particular the capacity to feel pain; 2. reasoning (the developed capacity to solve new and relatively complex problems); 3. self-motivated activity (activity which is relatively independent of either genetic or direct external control); 4. the capacity to communicate, by whatever means, messages of an indefinite variety of types . . . ; 5. the presence of self-concepts, and self-awareness. . . .

If a human lacks the ability to communicate, are they not a person?

If a human is unconscious, are they not a person?

If a human with brain damage is not self-aware, are they not a person?

What of our activity is not determined by genetics to the same degree as anything else, from bacteria to dogs?

[Ethel mermania]

Being consumed by the explosion of vermin brought about by the rise of egalitarianism.

People like you disdain the masses because you know that no amount of elitism can save you from them. Power might be concentrated in the hands of the few, but force is the sole preserve of the many.

Force is the sole preserve of the guy with the bigger gun and the will to use it.

[Conserative Morality]

Force is the sole preserve of the guy with the bigger gun and the will to use it.

Tell that to the Swiss Guard

[Dyakovo]

I'm not familiar with each case, but through philosophical argument for granting personhood to chimps is that they possess the 5 core traits of personhood:
1: Consciousness
2: Reasoning
3: Self-motivated activity
4: The ability to communicate
5: Self-awareness

If a human lacks the ability to communicate, are they not a person?

If a human is unconscious, are they not a person?

If a human with brain damage is not self-aware, are they not a person?

What of our activity is not determined by genetics to the same degree as anything else, from bacteria to dogs?

I included the quote for a reason.

[Ethel mermania]

@ dya, that criteria ia silly, my cat meets it.

[Benuty]

Only as a result of the Fall of man.

Which he knew would happen in advance and still allowed to happen, but I digress.

But no I don't think a Chimp should be granted personhood.

I should emphasize it was obvious who the serpent was.

I'll give you a hint it starts with a Y.

[Conserative Morality]

I included the quote for a reason.

I'm sorry, I must still be a bit groggy, I don't understand.

To my current understanding, you put forth the five traits of personhood and gave a quote outlining the same.

Thus, my response is questioning the five traits of personhood and addresses both your words and her's.

[Dyakovo]

@ dya, that criteria ia silly, my cat meets it.

There is no scientific evidence that cats are capable of reasoning.

[Prezelly]

Chimpanzee is not human, should not be given human rights

[Dyakovo]

Chimpanzee is not human, should not be given human rights

The case isn't actually about granting human rights to chimpanzees.

[Ethel mermania]

Force is the sole preserve of the guy with the bigger gun and the will to use it.

Tell that to the Swiss Guard

Your point, I miss.

[Conserative Morality]

Your point, I miss.

The Swiss Guard had bigger guns and the will to use them.

An angry mob butchered them.

[Prezelly]

Chimpanzee is not human, should not be given human rights

The case isn't actually about granting human rights to chimpanzees.

My mistake, just read through some of the articles, I don't think he should be given what the NhRP are looking for

[Ethel mermania]

@ dya, that criteria ia silly, my cat meets it.

There is no scientific evidence that cats are capable of reasoning.

Au contre'

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an ... _dogs.html