RESOLVED: Atheist Airman Allowed To Modify Oath

[Freiheit Reich]

The airman is wrong because God exists and he needs to respect God's power. Being anti-God is not cool or hip (as the airman and many other atheists seem to believe). He will find out the truth in a few years on Judgment Day. Apparently, the fact he is alive and the sun rises and falls every day is not proof enough for this gentleman.

I'm guessing you have evidence for all these claims?

http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html

http://www.godisreal.today/proof-god-exists/

[Shaggai]

I'm guessing you have evidence for all these claims?

http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html

http://www.godisreal.today/proof-god-exists/

None of those are sufficiently strong evidence for your god.

[Dewhurst-Narculis]

I'm guessing you have evidence for all these claims?

http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html

http://www.godisreal.today/proof-god-exists/

Wow, brings a whole new meaning to Satryd Nepasr ter

You are entitled to your beliefs, the airman and all atheists are entitled to theirs, nothing is more irritating than someone trying to shove scripture down others throats like the ironic phallic blasphemy that pretty much is the same

[The Rich Port]

I'm guessing you have evidence for all these claims?

http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html

http://www.godisreal.today/proof-god-exists/

... I love how none of those "proofs" have links to, oh, I dunno... News stories that corroborate them.

You know what else is proof of God? Midgets that escape from the bowels of tigers.

It was in the news this rawning.

[Ainin]

Apparently, the fact he is alive and the sun rises and falls every day is not proof enough for this gentleman.

He came alive through sexual reproduction and the sun rises and falls every day due to the revolution of the earth around the sun and around itself.

Try again.

[Lalaki]

Religious freedom has won the battle.

[The Rich Port]

You can only reasonably defend one of these statements. Choose wisely.

The airman is wrong because God exists and he needs to respect God's power. Being anti-God is not cool or hip (as the airman and many other atheists seem to believe). He will find out the truth in a few years on Judgment Day. Apparently, the fact he is alive and the sun rises and falls every day is not proof enough for this gentleman.

... The Sun doesn't move.

The reason is SEEMS that way is because the Earth rotates.

And, no, being alive is not proof of God. It's proof Hades exists.

[Talanzaar]

Why is it such a big deal? Was he really that offended by 4 words? Really? Truly? Why doesn't he just say them, doesn't mean that they mean anything to him.

[The Rich Port]

Why is it such a big deal? Was he really that offended by 4 words? Really? Truly? Why doesn't he just say them, doesn't mean that they mean anything to him.

If the words were, "so help me Zeus", would you have said them?

I personally wouldn't say them because I'd think the General swearing me in was high.

[Mavorpen]

Why is it such a big deal? Was he really that offended by 4 words? Really? Truly? Why doesn't he just say them, doesn't mean that they mean anything to him.

Why don't you read at least a few pages of the thread?

[Dewhurst-Narculis]

Why is it such a big deal? Was he really that offended by 4 words? Really? Truly? Why doesn't he just say them, doesn't mean that they mean anything to him.

Goddamnit we just had this argument. Saying it is a big deal to some/most atheists, it would be like a Christian acknowledging Buddha, it's a tarnishing act really

[Mavorpen]

Why is it such a big deal? Was he really that offended by 4 words? Really? Truly? Why doesn't he just say them, doesn't mean that they mean anything to him.

Goddamnit we just had this argument. Saying it is a big deal to some/most atheists, it would be like a Christian acknowledging Buddha, it's a tarnishing act really

That's a bad analogy, but your underlying point is correct.

[Dewhurst-Narculis]

Goddamnit we just had this argument. Saying it is a big deal to some/most atheists, it would be like a Christian acknowledging Buddha, it's a tarnishing act really

That's a bad analogy, but your underlying point is correct.

Yeah granted it's not my best, so sue me, I've been up for 18 hours, I'm hardly Tim Minchin as it is

[Ainin]

Why is it such a big deal? Was he really that offended by 4 words? Really? Truly? Why doesn't he just say them, doesn't mean that they mean anything to him.

Then I presume you would take no offence if a Christian was forced to say "allahu akbar" in order to gain US citizenship?

[The Rich Port]

Why is it such a big deal? Was he really that offended by 4 words? Really? Truly? Why doesn't he just say them, doesn't mean that they mean anything to him.

Then I presume you would take no offence if a Christian was forced to say "allahu akbar" in order to gain US citizenship?

Or, hell, to swear that they would make jihad against the enemies of Islam.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

You can only reasonably defend one of these statements. Choose wisely.

The airman is wrong because God exists and he needs to respect God's power.

Irrelevant. Whether God exists or not, the Constitution and a long history of Supreme Court rulings prohibit any religious test whatsoever for him to re-enlist.

Being anti-God is not cool or hip (as the airman and many other atheists seem to believe). He will find out the truth in a few years on Judgment Day.

Absent proven psychic abilities on your part, your interpretation of his motivations is without merit. Even in the event that you are correct, it is still irrelevant, as one's motivations for holding certain views has never affected the Constitutionality of one's right to hold said views.

Apparently, the fact he is alive and the sun rises and falls every day is not proof enough for this gentleman.

Nor for any number of people, including esteemed scientists, philosophers, writers, artists, and other people of note. In fact, even as a theist, I find that argument lacking.

[Dyakovo]

I'm guessing you have evidence for all these claims?

http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html

http://www.godisreal.today/proof-god-exists/

Addressing the claims in the "godisreal" link...
1: There is no verifiable evidence that any of these supposed healing miracles actually happened.
2-4: Suffering from delusions is not evidence of your god existing.
5: Dreams are not reality and thus not evidence of your god existing.
6-7: See 2-4.
8: People changing their behaviour is not evidence of your god existing. Not to mention the detail that Christians aren't better people than anyone else.
9: People claiming that their prayers were answered is not evidence of your god existing.
10: People being mistakenly proclaimed to be deceased is not evidence of your god existing.

[Dyakovo]

Why is it such a big deal? Was he really that offended by 4 words? Really? Truly? Why doesn't he just say them, doesn't mean that they mean anything to him.

The oath calls first you to uphold the constitution. Forcing people to swear by "God" is unconstitutional.

[The Rich Port]

http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html

http://www.godisreal.today/proof-god-exists/

Addressing the claims in the "godisreal" link...
1: There is no verifiable evidence that any of these supposed healing miracles actually happened.
2-4: Suffering from delusions is not evidence of your god existing.
5: Dreams are not reality and thus not evidence of your god existing.
6-7: See 2-4.
8: People changing their behaviour is not evidence of your god existing. Not to mention the detail that Christians aren't better people than anyone else.
9: People claiming that their prayers were answered is not evidence of your god existing.
10: People being mistakenly proclaimed to be deceased is not evidence of your god existing.

Heh. "Oh, God, I can't find my keys, please help me! Oh, wait... They were in my pockets... HALLELUJAH!"

[Yumyumsuppertime]

http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html

http://www.godisreal.today/proof-god-exists/

Addressing the claims in the "godisreal" link...
1: There is no verifiable evidence that any of these supposed healing miracles actually happened.
2-4: Suffering from delusions is not evidence of your god existing.
5: Dreams are not reality and thus not evidence of your god existing.
6-7: See 2-4.
8: People changing their behaviour is not evidence of your god existing. Not to mention the detail that Christians aren't better people than anyone else.
9: People claiming that their prayers were answered is not evidence of your god existing.
10: People being mistakenly proclaimed to be deceased is not evidence of your god existing.

Not to mention that God's existence or nonexistence is actually irrelevant to the question itself, and any attempt to turn this into a theist vs. atheist/anti-theist/apatheist debate serves only as a distraction from the point at hand, which is the right to serve one's nation without being forced to take an oath that one does not believe in.

[Indira]

I'm guessing you have evidence for all these claims?

http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html

http://www.godisreal.today/proof-god-exists/

Not proof of God, just proof of the determination of religious people to see God. He exists through this little thing called sex. You may have heard of it. The sun 'rises' and falls is basic astronomy and happens on EVERY PLANET IN OUR SOLAR SYSTEM. And Judgement Day? Not going to happen anytime soon if at all. There have been people claiming that the world is going to end soon for a VERY long time. Anyone remember 2012/ The Millenium? And various others.

Good news about his oath though

[Dyakovo]

Addressing the claims in the "godisreal" link...
1: There is no verifiable evidence that any of these supposed healing miracles actually happened.
2-4: Suffering from delusions is not evidence of your god existing.
5: Dreams are not reality and thus not evidence of your god existing.
6-7: See 2-4.
8: People changing their behaviour is not evidence of your god existing. Not to mention the detail that Christians aren't better people than anyone else.
9: People claiming that their prayers were answered is not evidence of your god existing.
10: People being mistakenly proclaimed to be deceased is not evidence of your god existing.

Not to mention that God's existence or nonexistence is actually irrelevant to the question itself, and any attempt to turn this into a theist vs. atheist/anti-theist/apatheist debate serves only as a distraction from the point at hand, which is the right to serve one's nation without being forced to take an oath that one does not believe in.

Eh... The point's already been made. The Air Farce got bitch-slapped by the DoD lawyers.
Edit: But you're right, whether or not "God" exists is immaterial.

[The Rich Port]

Addressing the claims in the "godisreal" link...
1: There is no verifiable evidence that any of these supposed healing miracles actually happened.
2-4: Suffering from delusions is not evidence of your god existing.
5: Dreams are not reality and thus not evidence of your god existing.
6-7: See 2-4.
8: People changing their behaviour is not evidence of your god existing. Not to mention the detail that Christians aren't better people than anyone else.
9: People claiming that their prayers were answered is not evidence of your god existing.
10: People being mistakenly proclaimed to be deceased is not evidence of your god existing.

Not to mention that God's existence or nonexistence is actually irrelevant to the question itself, and any attempt to turn this into a theist vs. atheist/anti-theist/apatheist debate serves only as a distraction from the point at hand, which is the right to serve one's nation without being forced to take an oath that one does not believe in.

IKR?

What I want to know is which USAF jag-off put that oath in there and who he is because I want his ass on a silver platter.

HOOAH.

[New Chalcedon]

Why is it such a big deal? Was he really that offended by 4 words? Really? Truly? Why doesn't he just say them, doesn't mean that they mean anything to him.

Then I presume you would take no offence if a Christian was forced to say "allahu akbar" in order to gain US citizenship?

Eh, that's just Arabic for "God is Great". Try this:

"lā ʾilāha ʾillā-llāh, muhammadun rasūlu-llāh"

Make all prospective oath-swearers to the US Government swear that there is no God but Allah, and that Muhammad is his Prophet.

It's just one short sentence, right?

Not to mention that God's existence or nonexistence is actually irrelevant to the question itself, and any attempt to turn this into a theist vs. atheist/anti-theist/apatheist debate serves only as a distraction from the point at hand, which is the right to serve one's nation without being forced to take an oath that one does not believe in.

IKR?

What I want to know is which USAF jag-off put that oath in there and who he is because I want his ass on a silver platter.

HOOAH.

It was a behind the scenes change to the oath about two years ago. Not an individual screwup.

Since this is the chair force, I can hardly say I'm surprised. What's next? A directive converting the pilot couches into pews on Sundays? What's another hour out of their availability times?

[The Rich Port]

Then I presume you would take no offence if a Christian was forced to say "allahu akbar" in order to gain US citizenship?

Eh, that's just Arabic for "God is Great". Try this:

"lā ʾilāha ʾillā-llāh, muhammadun rasūlu-llāh"

Make all prospective oath-swearers to the US Government swear that there is no God but Allah, and that Muhammad is his Prophet.

It's just one short sentence, right?

IKR?

What I want to know is which USAF jag-off put that oath in there and who he is because I want his ass on a silver platter.

HOOAH.

It was a behind the scenes change to the oath about two years ago. Not an individual screwup.

Since this is the chair force, I can hardly say I'm surprised.

We need plausible deniability for this stupid oath change. We don't want the blowback of angry atheists hacking our computers and putting our sexts all over the Internet.