Ukraine Megathread: Crimea River Build a Bridge, Get Over It

[Zimnaya Zemlya]

Oh, good, something for Ukrainian kids to fall asleep to!

Nice to see this high-school taking lessons from Nazi Germany.

I can't speak for Nazi Germany, but when my country was a fascist dictatorship, classes on "Moral and Civic Education" — an euphemism for indoctrination — were part of the national school curriculum. Of course, I don't believe Ukraine is remotely close to being a fascist regime...

I suppose your country was Italy, then?

I mean, fascism starts with authoritarianism and nationalism. Ukraine isn't that far off from becoming a full-blown fascist dictatorship. In some aspects like this it already is. They're already charging people with crimes like "working against Ukraine" or smth like working to destroy the integrity of Ukraine, like Vladimir Zhirinovsky who is just a spokesperson anyways, and there's no evidence to support that he's actually done that.

[Allegan County]

I suppose your country was Italy, then?

Brazil under Estado Novo.

I mean, fascism starts with authoritarianism and nationalism. Ukraine isn't that far off from becoming a full-blown fascist dictatorship. In some aspects like this it already is. They're already charging people with crimes like "working against Ukraine" or smth like working to destroy the integrity of Ukraine, like Vladimir Zhirinovsky who is just a spokesperson anyways, and there's no evidence to support that he's actually done that.

Since the end of World War II, the word "fascism" has been carelessly used as an insult, much like "communist". What criteria do you use to define fascism? The constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, etc? Disregard for human rights? Using scapegoats as an unifying cause? Obsession with national security? Using the national religion as a tool to manipulate public opinion? Corporatism? Cronyism and corruption? If so, you might as well brand Russia as a fascist regime as well. Fascism does start with authoritarianism, but that authoritarianism is used to lead to the creation of totalitarian single-party state, and Ukraine is pretty far from that. And given the Ukrainian government's love austerity and the EU, they don't seem to be willing to work towards autarky, which is another goal of fascism.

[Roski]

I can't speak for Nazi Germany, but when my country was a fascist dictatorship, classes on "Moral and Civic Education" — an euphemism for indoctrination — were part of the national school curriculum. Of course, I don't believe Ukraine is remotely close to being a fascist regime...

I suppose your country was Italy, then?

I mean, fascism starts with authoritarianism and nationalism. Ukraine isn't that far off from becoming a full-blown fascist dictatorship. In some aspects like this it already is. They're already charging people with crimes like "working against Ukraine" or smth like working to destroy the integrity of Ukraine, like Vladimir Zhirinovsky who is just a spokesperson anyways, and there's no evidence to support that he's actually done that.

Its pretty far from anything dictatorial, and "working against Ukraine" is a pretty valid charge when a third of your fucking nation decides to start shooting up the place.

[Geilinor]

http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-crimea-patriotism-classrooms-history/25327022.html
Russian government creates initiative to support patriotism in schools.

[Costa Fierro]

http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-crimea-patriotism-classrooms-history/25327022.html
Russian government creates initiative to support patriotism in schools.

This looks like something very close to the f-word.

[Estruia]

http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-crimea-patriotism-classrooms-history/25327022.html
Russian government creates initiative to support patriotism in schools.

This looks like something very close to the f-word.

Fabulous?

[Edgy Opinions]

...what do you mean, that in your hypothetical right-wing Venezuela government scenario you'd want to "see them cooked"? Military intervention? By Brazil perhaps? If so, you're not one bit better than US Neocons.

[...]

Yes, how dare they question their natural role as Russia's satellite...such a nice "anti"-imperialist worldview you have there.

No, I meant deposed and excluded from public life by their very population.

As for Russia's imperialism, they're picking the Western one instead. Me being against the last one above all else because they dominate current global politics has nothing to do with me being a fan of Putin. Furthermore, I never heard of Russia staging a coup or anything like that ever since its re-democratization, though. Supporting independence movements is not at all the same - and they only started to do that after Kosovo in 2008, if I remember that correctly.

[Malgrave]

In the latest example of the state of the propaganda drive in Russia, a major channel has been caught trying to claim that Hitler will be on the new Ukrainian currency. In the larger video (from 19:00) onwards the channel even utilises some ridiculous map of Ukraine's territorial growth over the years like we should some reason revert to the borders we had in the 1600's

[Baltenstein]

http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-crimea-patriotism-classrooms-history/25327022.html
Russian government creates initiative to support patriotism in schools.

Seriously, the louder Ukraine and Russia bash and hate on each other, the more they resemble each other.

No, I meant deposed and excluded from public life by their very population.

Well, that's certainly what's happened to Yanukovich.

As for Russia's imperialism, they're picking the Western one instead.

Accusing Ukraine (or other pro-Western East European countries) of "picking Western imperialism" is insulting. What they want first and foremost is to to be independent from Russia's bullying and sphere of influence delusions.
If one would accuse a leftwing South American government that tries to establish friendly economic ties with Russia of "picking Putinism", would that be accurate? Of course not. Just like the countries of Eastern Europe, South Americans in general want to become more independent from their historical hegemon, not actively supporting the imperialism of said hegemon's rival.

Me being against the last one above all else because they dominate current global politics has nothing to do with me being a fan of Putin.

The US are neither omnipotent nor omnipresent. It's perfectly reasonable for a Brazilian to distrust the US the most (because of his geopolitical situation), but countries and peoples in Eastern Europe and SE Asia are far more concerned with Russia's and China's expansionism respectively. I personally (Greek) am far more concerned with Erdogan's craziness than whatever the Americans or others are scheming for the Eastern Mediterranean.

Furthermore, I never heard of Russia staging a coup or anything like that ever since its re-democratization, though.

Staging coups is not Russia's style. They prefer military interventions and cutting (or threatening to cut) the gas/oil life line to defiant countries.

[Roski]

http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-crimea-patriotism-classrooms-history/25327022.html
Russian government creates initiative to support patriotism in schools.

This looks like something very close to the f-word.

Famerican?

[Seraven]

VICE video of Russia's anti-maidan protest. I see Russia's propaganda machine is back in full swing.

We're talking about Russia here.

[Herargon]

In the latest example of the state of the propaganda drive in Russia, a major channel has been caught trying to claim that Hitler will be on the new Ukrainian currency. In the larger video (from 19:00) onwards the channel even utilises some ridiculous map of Ukraine's territorial growth over the years like we should some reason revert to the borders we had in the 1600's

Actually, it is fake. That money thing was supposedly suggested by extremist groups in Ukraine -- Svoboda, if I am right.

[Herargon]

This looks like something very close to the f-word.

Famerican?

[Serious answer] In some - better said, many European countries - Russia and Ukraine included, thus they aren't exceptions - fascism or nazism is an insult. You have to be very careful if you want to use that word outside the context of the original meaning of the word, or else you could be unemployed. At least, that may be the case in the Netherlands sometimes.

[Thellonya]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T65SwzHAbes

well then, i found this gem, i don't exactly know who made it but it appears to be someone from russia claiming the right to be an occupant...all i can say is oh boy

[Herargon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T65SwzHAbes

well then, i found this gem, i don't exactly know who made it but it appears to be someone from russia claiming the right to be an occupant...all i can say is oh boy

That was on Reddit a week or two ago. I saw it. He is not claiming the right to be an occupant, but says sarcastically he is an occupant.

Semi-edit: found it on Reddit.

Here's the link: http://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments ... ropaganda/

[Thellonya]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T65SwzHAbes

well then, i found this gem, i don't exactly know who made it but it appears to be someone from russia claiming the right to be an occupant...all i can say is oh boy

That was on Reddit a week or two ago. I saw it. He is not claiming the right to be an occupant, but says sarcastically he is an occupant.

Semi-edit: found it on Reddit.

Here's the link: http://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments ... ropaganda/

oh ok, i saw that a while back and i misread it, but thats what i took away from it.

[Shofercia]

EU's bawwwing because Russia won't let sanctioned EU politicians into the country to attend Nemtsov's funeral. Dearest EU, sanctions work both ways. Don't like it? Drop the sanctions and stop bawwwing. Speaking of bawwwing, Kiev's government is accusing the Kremlin of asking them to purchase gas at market price. Damn that Putin, enforcing Capitalism and all. Wait, didn't Kiev want Capitalism? And now Kiev's government is about to discover that in Capitalism, there are few gifts, and quite a bit of loans, placing Kiev's pro-Western Oligarchs in a pickle; they can lose money and embrace openness and Capitalism, and since I'm certain that they only did this for a brighter future, and totally not to fill their own pockets, they'll eagerly give up their wealth for the prosperity of Ukraine! Why Poroshenko already sold his chocolate business, just like he promised. (That last part was sarcastic.)

[West Aurelia]

US military commander says there are 12,000 Russian troops in Ukraine.

EDIT: Russian bombers disrupted Irish air traffic on February 18.

[Malgrave]

EU's bawwwing because Russia won't let sanctioned EU politicians into the country to attend Nemtsov's funeral. Dearest EU, sanctions work both ways. Don't like it? Drop the sanctions and stop bawwwing. Speaking of bawwwing, Kiev's government is accusing the Kremlin of asking them to purchase gas at market price. Damn that Putin, enforcing Capitalism and all. Wait, didn't Kiev want Capitalism? And now Kiev's government is about to discover that in Capitalism, there are few gifts, and quite a bit of loans, placing Kiev's pro-Western Oligarchs in a pickle; they can lose money and embrace openness and Capitalism, and since I'm certain that they only did this for a brighter future, and totally not to fill their own pockets, they'll eagerly give up their wealth for the prosperity of Ukraine! Why Poroshenko already sold his chocolate business, just like he promised. (That last part was sarcastic.)

and yet this entire post is one massive "bawwwwing" fit.

[Roski]

EU's bawwwing because Russia won't let sanctioned EU politicians into the country to attend Nemtsov's funeral. Dearest EU, sanctions work both ways. Don't like it? Drop the sanctions and stop bawwwing. Speaking of bawwwing, Kiev's government is accusing the Kremlin of asking them to purchase gas at market price. Damn that Putin, enforcing Capitalism and all. Wait, didn't Kiev want Capitalism? And now Kiev's government is about to discover that in Capitalism, there are few gifts, and quite a bit of loans, placing Kiev's pro-Western Oligarchs in a pickle; they can lose money and embrace openness and Capitalism, and since I'm certain that they only did this for a brighter future, and totally not to fill their own pockets, they'll eagerly give up their wealth for the prosperity of Ukraine! Why Poroshenko already sold his chocolate business, just like he promised. (That last part was sarcastic.)

>ukraine
>complaining that oil costs money



Rev up the abrams boys, Ukraine has oil!

[Bratislavskaya]

Ukraine makes their "peaceful intentions" clear

[Zakuvia]

Ukraine makes their "peaceful intentions" clear

As opposed to leaving their tanks incapable of being used for their intended purpose? Worry if they move the tanks back to the line. As long as they stay in their pens, I don't see the problem.

[Bratislavskaya]

Ukraine makes their "peaceful intentions" clear

As opposed to leaving their tanks incapable of being used for their intended purpose? Worry if they move the tanks back to the line. As long as they stay in their pens, I don't see the problem.

They did move the tanks back to the line, that is the point.

[Estruia]

Ukraine makes their "peaceful intentions" clear

So, are you just going to ignore that the Rebels have, on multiple occasions which were documented by VICE, stated that they intend on "liberating" the entirety of Donbass, including the areas controlled by the Government? You act as if Kiev should be dismantling its armed forces right now, rather than preparing for the inevitable Ceasefire violations by the Rebels.

[Bratislavskaya]

Ukraine makes their "peaceful intentions" clear

So, are you just going to ignore that the Rebels have, on multiple occasions which were documented by VICE, stated that they intend on "liberating" the entirety of Donbass, including the areas controlled by the Government? You act as if Kiev should be dismantling its armed forces right now, rather than preparing for the inevitable Ceasefire violations by the Rebels.

No, I'm acting like they should be following the ceasefire agreements to the extent of pulling back all forces to the designated line. The Rebels have. And both sides have in fact broken the agreements, and it was the Ukrainians that broke the last ceasefire if I recall correctly.