Russia threatens nuclear war against all NATO members

[Imperializt Russia]

The 31st Fighter Wing has two squadrons of F-16s, aircraft designed to accept the B-61 gravity bomb.

Other way around.

American fighter wings in NATO nuclear-sharing states (Italy, the Netherlands, Turkey and at least one other) are there to train the local air forces in the delivery of the B-61.

You make this claim in the face of the far more likely

To do that, the 31st Fighter Wing must therefore itself be capable of delivering the B-61.

It's not the Wing's purpose. This is like saying that Air Force technicians are combat troops because they have military training - yes they can fire a rifle and conduct themselves in a military manner, but they aren't 11-B US Army Infantry - it's not their job to go out and get shot at.

If it were just the local air forces who were intended to operate the B-61s stored at European air bases, the US Fighter Wings would not be required. The Munition Support Squadrons and maintenance trucks would be all that were required, plus advisors for training exercises.

This is probably the case for Turkish B-61 bases, since strike units are apparently not permitted to be stationed there.

Though certainly not conclusive, we're beyond reasonable doubt, here.

[Communal Ecotopia]

So Mars had a flora and propably fauna when it was still habitable?

What? No.

Yeah.
Probably sentient life too.

WHAT?!

Guys we can barely find evidence* of bacterial life on Mars, and it'd be much, much easier to find evidence of larger, multicellular life-forms than it is to find evidence of bacterial life.

*(fossils/organic compounds most likely to be produced by metabolic processes)
[/off-topic]

On the one hand, he's not threatening NATO directly, he's talking to some kids at a indoctrination summer camp.
However, as the president of a large nation with a pretty big level of importance in the international community, you don't throw around comments about using your nuclear arsenal, even with a bunch of kids.

No, you don't, unless your purpose is to indoctrinate those kids or please those who have already gone to your side with some "red meat".

[Cyrisnia]

sentient as in like
animals

Yes we evolved from sentient animals on Mars. This is why we are animals ourselves.

[Indira]

Putin might be an arse, but I doubt that he'd seriously start a nuclear exchange over Ukraine. Of course, if we just backed down over Ukraine just because he does a little nuclear dick waving, he will simply do so again on other issues

[Conserative Morality]

If it were just the local air forces who were intended to operate the B-61s stored at European air bases, the US Fighter Wings would not be required. The Munition Support Squadrons and maintenance trucks would be all that were required, plus advisors for training exercises.

This is probably the case for Turkish B-61 bases, since strike units are apparently not permitted to be stationed there.

Though certainly not conclusive, we're beyond reasonable doubt, here.

You're making the following claims:

-The 31st Air Wing operates out of Aviano [TRUE]
-B-61s are present at Aviano [PLAUSIBLE]
-US Fighter Wings are in Europe not to coordinate with other militaries, maintain international readiness, and assure America's allies, but rather to train their fighter pilots to use nuclear weapons [UNSUPPORTED]
-Thus, the 31st Air Wing is a nuclear unit [UNSUPPORTED]

[Allet Klar Chefs]

double post

[Allet Klar Chefs]

Putin might be an arse, but I doubt that he'd seriously start a nuclear exchange over Ukraine. Of course, if we just backed down over Ukraine just because he does a little nuclear dick waving, he will simply do so again on other issues

Sure let's escalate for no reason over territory we literally do not care about except as a gas transit pipeline and massive security liability because the Germans tried to let them into NATO already.

[Padnak]

I think it's throwing the West off balance because they foolhartedly really believe Putin might do something like this. He's not that dumb...in fact, he's quite cunning. Now, where the separatists (and presumably, Russia, but I don't think we have direct proof) went wrong is when they sent thugs in to artificially inflate the separatist referendums in Donetsk and Luhansk. You don't need 80% approval, folks, and I think they probably could have won those referendums, making this relatively moot. I don't THINK you can invoke a NATO statute or Article 2(4) of the UN for the consequences of a free vote..

There's the underlying problem in that the west doesn't have all that much experience dealing with someone as politically cynical and intelligent as Putin. If Putin was like, say Saddam Hussein, then there wouldn't be any problems because we know how to deal with people like him, but we don't know how to deal with someone like Putin whose willing to do almost anything to reach their objective but doesn't use methods that out them as the clear cut bad guy to enough countries to make non military punitive measures effective

we need to put NATO forces in the Ukraine, not in combat but in the ukraine none the less, and I think he'll back down. Even better if the Ukrainians concede a little bit of territory to make the whole thing ease over a bit better

we matched Suddam's use of force in Kuwait by kicking the shit out of iraq, we have to match Putins brinkmanship if we hope to keep him from breaking the Ukraine

[Northwest Slobovia]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/vladimir-putin/11064209/Vladimir-Putin-Dont-mess-with-nuclear-armed-Russia.html

This should remind everyone why it is important that no American, British, German, French, Canadian, or other NATO soldiers ever set foot inside Ukraine Vladdy Baby is posturing.

This is the first time in recent decades that Russia has threatened to launch a nuclear holocaust upon the NATO alliance.

No, they haven't.

We might be opposed to what Russia is doing in Ukraine but are we willing to destroy the planet just to stop them from carving the country up?

No. And in fact, neither is Vlad. He's put on a huge strap-on and is waving it around, because that's better for him than anybody rationally analyzing the situation and observing the tiny withered doo-dad that's the Russian army and economy.

[Padnak]

No. And in fact, neither is Vlad. He's put on a huge strap-on and is waving it around, because that's better for him than anybody rationally analyzing the situation and observing the tiny withered doo-dad that's the Russian army and economy.

The Russian military is a force to be reckoned with and Putin has good buddy china to keep the economy running-

I agree with the dick waving, just thought I point that out

[Allet Klar Chefs]

The Russian military is a force to be reckoned with and Putin has good buddy china to keep the economy running-

The Russian economy is extremely precarious, as the last worldwide recession showed. Their stock market absolutely tumbled, by 2/3s of its supposed value. The Russian state is having serious trouble getting foreign credit, and even before the last round of sanctions, interest rates were on the up and up.

China is not going to bail out the Russian economy. Russia and China are not friends, they're competing states, just like every state in the world.

[Imperializt Russia]

If it were just the local air forces who were intended to operate the B-61s stored at European air bases, the US Fighter Wings would not be required. The Munition Support Squadrons and maintenance trucks would be all that were required, plus advisors for training exercises.

This is probably the case for Turkish B-61 bases, since strike units are apparently not permitted to be stationed there.

Though certainly not conclusive, we're beyond reasonable doubt, here.

You're making the following claims:

-The 31st Air Wing operates out of Aviano [TRUE]
-B-61s are present at Aviano [PLAUSIBLE]
-US Fighter Wings are in Europe not to coordinate with other militaries, maintain international readiness, and assure America's allies, but rather to train their fighter pilots to use nuclear weapons [UNSUPPORTED]
-Thus, the 31st Air Wing is a nuclear unit [UNSUPPORTED]

Nuclear fighter wings would be there to coordinate with other militaries, maintain international readiness, and assure America's allies, by the virtue of being tactical nuclear assets.
Though the FAS article maintains that it does not believe those goals are fulfilled by likely nuclear fighter wings through points I don't believe are especially correct. It doesn't seem to put much faith in posturing.

I didn't suggest that nuclear-carrying would be the only duty of the 31st Fighter Wing, mind. Though I can see how that would come across, so apologies for that. After all, 31FW has performed operations including DENY FLIGHT as part of KFOR. The famous O'grady shot down over Bosnia, who I'm pretty sure they made a film about, was from the 555th.
It's also supported operations in Iraq, Afghanistan and over Libya since being stationed in Aviano in 1994.

The DOD's own website for the 704th MUNS states it is for the "receipt of US war reserve weapons committed to NATO's 6th Stormo Italian Wing", which is probably as close as you're likely to come to a tacit acknowledgement of the nuclear mission at Aviano. Not NATO war reserve, US war reserve, for the Italian Air Force.
http://www.militaryinstallations.dod.mi ... STALLATION
The Italian Air Force does not require the 31st Fighter Wing to maintain its conventional arms. This is true at every other Italian Air Force fighter base, aside from the other nuclear base.

[Assorted Sucrose-Based Lifeforms]

The Russian military is a force to be reckoned with

More people in the military per 1000 citizens than the US, UK, or even China, and from what I've heard, as soon as Putin came to power, the Russian gov't basically just started throwing bags of money at the military.
It's getting concerning, because previously they just had numbers and the occasional large explosive, whilst the rest of their equipment was a bit dated, but now they're modernising in a big way, and I just hope they're not doing it with expansion in mind.

[Padnak]

The Russian military is a force to be reckoned with and Putin has good buddy china to keep the economy running-

The Russian economy is extremely precarious, as the last worldwide recession showed. Their stock market absolutely tumbled, by 2/3s of its supposed value. The Russian state is having serious trouble getting foreign credit, and even before the last round of sanctions, interest rates were on the up and up.

China is not going to bail out the Russian economy. Russia and China are not friends, they're competing states, just like every state in the world.

They share a dislike for the west and the bond of the energy industry

I should have clarified, russia's economy isn't going to be sunshine and rainbows but with china buying their oil and gas they won't collapse

[Padnak]

The Russian military is a force to be reckoned with

More people in the military per 1000 citizens than the US, UK, or even China, and from what I've heard, as soon as Putin came to power, the Russian gov't basically just started throwing bags of money at the military.
It's getting concerning, because previously they just had numbers and the occasional large explosive, whilst the rest of their equipment was a bit dated, but now they're modernising in a big way, and I just hope they're not doing it with expansion in mind.

They've been dumping money into the military like mad for the past decade and in the past few years its started to take effect

while they can't stand toe to the toe with America they're still a regional power with the military capabilities to crush the Ukraine military. While Russia's vast size limits the amount of forces they can commit to any sort of action in the Ukraine, the Ukrainians lack the training and equipment the Russians have, especially with the civil war having run down Ukrainian equipment

[Imperializt Russia]

The Russian military is a force to be reckoned with

More people in the military per 1000 citizens than the US, UK, or even China, and from what I've heard, as soon as Putin came to power, the Russian gov't basically just started throwing bags of money at the military.
It's getting concerning, because previously they just had numbers and the occasional large explosive, whilst the rest of their equipment was a bit dated, but now they're modernising in a big way, and I just hope they're not doing it with expansion in mind.

The Russian military has been in quite a bad shape since the fall of the Soviets. This was fully realised to the west in the Georgia conflict in 2008. The Russians undertook a significant military reorganisation, including proposals to transition to a brigade system like the US is pursuing with BCT, in response. A lot of this came from Germany, but other European states. The Germans partially built an enormous training complex for the Russian Army between 2008 and 2014, that once completed could have trained about a hundred thousand personnel a year.

It is believed that, even at partial capacity, this facility trained Russian special forces and some regulars for the Crimea incursion and now possibly the Ukraine incursion too. Rheinmetall withdrew from the contract on the facility in response - under pressure from the German and other governments.
The French are hugely reluctant to withdraw the sale of three Mistral-class helicopter assault carriers to Russia. They bought Italiain Centauro wheeled tanks, British sniper rifles and French optics and electronics to modernise their tanks. The T-90 is practically part-built by Thales.

[Northwest Slobovia]

No. And in fact, neither is Vlad. He's put on a huge strap-on and is waving it around, because that's better for him than anybody rationally analyzing the situation and observing the tiny withered doo-dad that's the Russian army and economy.

The Russian military is a force to be reckoned with

Uh-huh. Their fleet is rusting at anchor, many air force units are reduced to taking paying tourists on rides to pay the bills, and their massive army is undertrained conscripts. I'm sure a few units are in decent fighting shape, but, um, so what? Vladdy Baby isn't looking for a fight with a first-world power. He's hoping to scare people away from considering military possibilities, such as arming the Ukrainians, sending "covert" Spec Ops "advisors" and all sorts of other low-intensity options. Because neither the Russian army nor its economy are in any position to fight a sustained guerrilla war against a well-armed and determined opponent.

I can understand the Europeans' reluctance to boycott Russian oil and gas, but the truth is that in the short run, that would tank Russia's economy. In the long term, sure, there are plenty of places to sell them, but the infrastructure to get it there isn't up to the problem yet. But I doubt Vladdy Baby would get that long term, because somebody would force him from power.

[Imperializt Russia]

Russia is no longer a conscript force, IIRC.
That was one of the changes at least proposed in the 2008 reforms.

[Northwest Slobovia]

Russia is no longer a conscript force, IIRC.
That was one of the changes at least proposed in the 2008 reforms.

I stand corrected. Fixed.

Edit: Maybe? I'm trying to find sources for either way, but other than Wakipedia, I'm not finding much.

[Imperializt Russia]

Russia is no longer a conscript force, IIRC.
That was one of the changes at least proposed in the 2008 reforms.

I stand corrected. Fixed.

Nope, I was wrong.
Though it was proposed, it wasn't followed through - the conscription period, already reduced to 18 months from 2 years, was dropped further to one year, but some exceptions were closed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscripti ... Federation

So your comment was entirely valid.

[Northwest Slobovia]

I stand corrected. Fixed.

Nope, I was wrong.
Though it was proposed, it wasn't followed through - the conscription period, already reduced to 18 months from 2 years, was dropped further to one year, but some exceptions were closed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscripti ... Federation

So your comment was entirely valid.

OK, thanks.

[Dyakovo]

Obama and the West keep ratcheting up the sanctions (after creating the Kiev situation in the first place).

It's fair that they be reminded of the available plays in this game.

Pray tell hoe the West created the Kiev situation...

[Rio Cana]

I think it's throwing the West off balance because they foolhartedly really believe Putin might do something like this. He's not that dumb...in fact, he's quite cunning. Now, where the separatists (and presumably, Russia, but I don't think we have direct proof) went wrong is when they sent thugs in to artificially inflate the separatist referendums in Donetsk and Luhansk. You don't need 80% approval, folks, and I think they probably could have won those referendums, making this relatively moot. I don't THINK you can invoke a NATO statute or Article 2(4) of the UN for the consequences of a free vote..

There's the underlying problem in that the west doesn't have all that much experience dealing with someone as politically cynical and intelligent as Putin. If Putin was like, say Saddam Hussein, then there wouldn't be any problems because we know how to deal with people like him, but we don't know how to deal with someone like Putin whose willing to do almost anything to reach their objective but doesn't use methods that out them as the clear cut bad guy to enough countries to make non military punitive measures effective

we need to put NATO forces in the Ukraine, not in combat but in the ukraine none the less, and I think he'll back down. Even better if the Ukrainians concede a little bit of territory to make the whole thing ease over a bit better

we matched Suddam's use of force in Kuwait by kicking the shit out of iraq, we have to match Putins brinkmanship if we hope to keep him from breaking the Ukraine

That is the problem. The idea of putting NATO troops in the Ukraine. Remember, when the Soviets collapsed and the Russian Federation came into being, it was agreed that NATO would not go further east. The Russians should have asked for it in writing but it was only by word of mouth. So they do not trust the West and NATO which wants to drive up to the border with Russia. NATO should have waited a few decades before even trying to get too involved in the Ukraine.

Having said that the Russians have done the following to counter the Western NATO advance on them.

Short news video from March - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPPlKI7VnSU

and more recently from last month.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-CZEXkKLvQ

[Padnak]

-snip-

The Russian fleet is a non-factor when it comes to menacing their neighbours and even then its allot better then it was, the Russian air force has more money then the entirety of the Canadian military (Not factual, but I wouldn't be surprised if its true), and the Russian army is leagues above what constitutes a military in many of its neighbours

Mentioning guerrilla war... they were victorious in Chechnya with a military that was a shadow of what it is today with an economy close to collapse and their opponent was rather determined and quite well armed

Fighting a guerrilla war doesn't take allot of resources or training, look at all the states locked in internal conflicts

[PC World News]

The only reason we had the "balls" to use a nuclear weapon is because we knew no one else had one.

This wasn't actually known until after the war.

Nevertheless, anyone who accredits bravery with dropping a nuclear weapon has no real in-depth understanding of what "having balls" really means.