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Old Man Kills Intruder

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Vamtrl
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Old Man Kills Intruder

Postby Vamtrl » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:25 pm

(CNN) -- Tom Greer says he fought back when he was attacked by intruders at his Southern California home. Then he got his gun and fired at them and they ran.

The 80-year-old homeowner says one of the fleeing burglars, a woman, shouted, "I'm pregnant!" He shot her twice, killing her.

The woman was not pregnant, Ed Winter of the Los Angeles County Coroner's Office told CNN on Friday.

The district attorney will decide whether Greer will face criminal charges.

Long Beach Police Chief Jim McDonnell said Greer walked into his house Tuesday to find suspects Andrea Miller, 26, and Gus Adams, 28, ransacking it. According to McDonnell, Greer said this was the fourth time his house has been burglarized.

Police say the couple beat and threw the elderly man to the ground, causing injuries, which included a broken collarbone, cuts and bruises.

Despite his injuries, Greer managed to grab his gun and fire at the suspects, causing them to flee through the garage and into the alley, police said.

In an interview with KNBC, Greer said that as the suspects ran into the alley, Miller yelled, "'Don't shoot me, I'm pregnant! I'm going to have a baby!' and I shot her anyway."

Miller died in the alley, the police chief said.

When asked by KNBC how he felt about the incident, Greer responded that he had no regrets.

"I had to do what I had to do."

Adams, the alleged accomplice, fled the scene, according to Greer and Chief McDonnell. He was later arrested and charged Friday with five felony counts, including murder in Miller's death, residential robbery , burglary, grand theft firearm and possession of a firearm by a felon. He's currently jailed on $1.25 million bond.

Adams was scheduled for arraignment on Friday, but his court appearance at Los Angeles Superior Court in Long Beach was postponed until August 11.

CNN

My take on this, the guy should spend the remainder of his life in prison. Shooting once cool, he should have waited for the police to pick her up. Double tapping while down, not cool.
Last edited by Euroslavia on Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: title edited

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Blakk Metal
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Postby Blakk Metal » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:26 pm

This is outrageous. He should have nuked her ass.

First!
Last edited by Blakk Metal on Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Delmonte
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Postby Delmonte » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:29 pm

Uhm. Castle Doctrine. We're done here.
[15:35] <Tag> I have a big, heavy sealed box that I have no idea what is in side of it.
[15:35] <Tag> I can only presume it is treasure.
The Batorys wrote:The Delmontese like money, yeah, but they also like to throw down.

<Delmonte> I don't mean literally kill their family. I mean kill their metaphorical family.
<Delmonte> Metaphorically kill their metaphorical family.
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 [b][color=#0000FF][background=red]United in Opposition to [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?t=303025]Liberate Haven[/url][/background][/color][/b]
[color=#FF0000][b]Mallorea and Riva should [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=303090]resign[/url][/b][/color]

The man from Delmonte says yes.

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Vamtrl
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Postby Vamtrl » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:30 pm

Delmonte wrote:Uhm. Castle Doctrine. We're done here.


Out of property and not in self defense?

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Othelos
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Postby Othelos » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:30 pm

So they were running away and he kept shooting? That's not self-defense lol.

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Dellmont
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Postby Dellmont » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:31 pm

After being confronted, the intruders attacked him. Greer shot twice at them after being assaulted, I believe it is self-defense. The two robbers should not have attacked him if they did not want him to fight back. They prey on the elderly, and when this man fought back, people want him to be prosecuted.

I agree with Delmonte, and not just because our names are eeriely similar.
Last edited by Dellmont on Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Vamtrl
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Postby Vamtrl » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:32 pm

Othelos wrote:So they were running away and he kept shooting? That's not self-defense lol.


He shot the woman, who proceeded to say she was pregnant and he replied with a second shot to her back. Charming fellow.

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:32 pm

Othelos wrote:So they were running away and he kept shooting? That's not self-defense lol.


It is if he feared they would turn around or come back sneakily later to take revenge.
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Delmonte
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Postby Delmonte » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:33 pm

Vamtrl wrote:
Delmonte wrote:Uhm. Castle Doctrine. We're done here.


Out of property and not in self defense?



Othelos wrote:So they were running away and he kept shooting? That's not self-defense lol.

His house had been robbed prior. Castle Doctrine states that as long as they're on his property and he has reason to think they will harm him in the future (they already assaulted him horribly and his house had been robbed previously), he is exempt from prosecution. It doesn't say he has to be right. It says he had to have good reason to think that. Which he totally did. The point of the law is to deter crime by making it clear that law abiding citizens will not be afraid to use lethal force to defend their homes. To prosecute him would be to defeat the entire point of it.
[15:35] <Tag> I have a big, heavy sealed box that I have no idea what is in side of it.
[15:35] <Tag> I can only presume it is treasure.
The Batorys wrote:The Delmontese like money, yeah, but they also like to throw down.

<Delmonte> I don't mean literally kill their family. I mean kill their metaphorical family.
<Delmonte> Metaphorically kill their metaphorical family.
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 [b][color=#0000FF][background=red]United in Opposition to [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?t=303025]Liberate Haven[/url][/background][/color][/b]
[color=#FF0000][b]Mallorea and Riva should [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=303090]resign[/url][/b][/color]

The man from Delmonte says yes.

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:33 pm

Vamtrl wrote:
Othelos wrote:So they were running away and he kept shooting? That's not self-defense lol.


He shot the woman, who proceeded to say she was pregnant and he replied with a second shot to her back. Charming fellow.


"Hey - I just broke into your house to steal your stuff, molesting you in the proces, but I am pregnant so be nice to me"
Getting an education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease.
It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.
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Alyakia
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Postby Alyakia » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:34 pm

The Alma Mater wrote:
Othelos wrote:So they were running away and he kept shooting? That's not self-defense lol.


It is if he feared they would turn around or come back sneakily later to take revenge.


no it isn't that is not how self-defence works goddamn
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Vamtrl
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Postby Vamtrl » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:35 pm

The Alma Mater wrote:
Vamtrl wrote:
He shot the woman, who proceeded to say she was pregnant and he replied with a second shot to her back. Charming fellow.


"Hey - I just broke into your house to steal your stuff, molesting you in the proces, but I am pregnant so be nice to me"


Terrible attempt at describing what happened, I want to double tap you now.

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Adab
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Postby Adab » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:35 pm

Well, thank God the woman wasn't really pregnant. I can understand the old man's intent - he shot at the intruders in self-defense, but, well, thank God he wasn't shooting at a pregnant woman, otherwise he would have also killed an unborn child and everyone (I mean everyone) would be calling for him to be imprisoned despite his age.
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Wisconsin9
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Postby Wisconsin9 » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:36 pm

Were both shots fired as the woman was running, or was she hit and then shot while down?

In the first case, yeah, self-defense. In the second, she no longer posed a threat, and the guy should be charged.
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Delmonte
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Postby Delmonte » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:36 pm

Alyakia wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:
It is if he feared they would turn around or come back sneakily later to take revenge.


no it isn't that is not how self-defence works goddamn

Read. The. Fucking. Castle. Doctrine. ""when the actor reasonably fears peril, imminent or future upon failure to act, of death or serious bodily harm to him or herself or another"" Actually just read it. Then say things.
[15:35] <Tag> I have a big, heavy sealed box that I have no idea what is in side of it.
[15:35] <Tag> I can only presume it is treasure.
The Batorys wrote:The Delmontese like money, yeah, but they also like to throw down.

<Delmonte> I don't mean literally kill their family. I mean kill their metaphorical family.
<Delmonte> Metaphorically kill their metaphorical family.
Code: Select all
 [b][color=#0000FF][background=red]United in Opposition to [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?t=303025]Liberate Haven[/url][/background][/color][/b]
[color=#FF0000][b]Mallorea and Riva should [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=303090]resign[/url][/b][/color]

The man from Delmonte says yes.

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Vamtrl
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Postby Vamtrl » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:36 pm

The Alma Mater wrote:
Othelos wrote:So they were running away and he kept shooting? That's not self-defense lol.


It is if he feared they would turn around or come back sneakily later to take revenge.


No. He had one down, he could have called the police. Who would then do their jobs and arrest the woman and make her reveal her partner in hiding.

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Delmonte
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Postby Delmonte » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:37 pm

Wisconsin9 wrote:Were both shots fired as the woman was running, or was she hit and then shot while down?

In the first case, yeah, self-defense. In the second, she no longer posed a threat, and the guy should be charged.

Dude, in the fray that often can't be helped. Would you be thinking clearly after you were assaulted? By prosecuting him, you're deterring people from defending themselves. Plain and simple.
[15:35] <Tag> I have a big, heavy sealed box that I have no idea what is in side of it.
[15:35] <Tag> I can only presume it is treasure.
The Batorys wrote:The Delmontese like money, yeah, but they also like to throw down.

<Delmonte> I don't mean literally kill their family. I mean kill their metaphorical family.
<Delmonte> Metaphorically kill their metaphorical family.
Code: Select all
 [b][color=#0000FF][background=red]United in Opposition to [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?t=303025]Liberate Haven[/url][/background][/color][/b]
[color=#FF0000][b]Mallorea and Riva should [url=http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=303090]resign[/url][/b][/color]

The man from Delmonte says yes.

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Othelos
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Postby Othelos » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:37 pm

The Alma Mater wrote:
Othelos wrote:So they were running away and he kept shooting? That's not self-defense lol.


It is if he feared they would turn around or come back sneakily later to take revenge.

Still not self defense. After they ran away, he should have called the cops.

Delmonte wrote:
Vamtrl wrote:
Out of property and not in self defense?



Othelos wrote:So they were running away and he kept shooting? That's not self-defense lol.

His house had been robbed prior. Castle Doctrine states that as long as they're on his property and he has reason to think they will harm him in the future (they already assaulted him horribly and his house had been robbed previously), he is exempt from prosecution. It doesn't say he has to be right. It says he had to have good reason to think that. Which he totally did. The point of the law is to deter crime by making it clear that law abiding citizens will not be afraid to use lethal force to defend their homes. To prosecute him would be to defeat the entire point of it.


That's fine, but they were running away. They were on their way off the property, and he still shot them.

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Keyboard Warriors
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Postby Keyboard Warriors » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:38 pm

I have a feeling he'll be charged with excessive self-defense nonetheless.
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United States of Natan
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Postby United States of Natan » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:38 pm

At least it wasn't the south, or he probably could have claimed stand your ground. Seriously, shooting while they are in his house, thats one thing. shooting while they are fleeing, thats just wrong. This man should go to jail.
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Sheltopolis
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Postby Sheltopolis » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:38 pm

Vamtrl wrote:My take on this, the guy should spend the remainder of his life in prison. Shooting once cool, he should have waited for the police to pick her up. Double tapping while down, not cool.


Are you kidding? The guy had been burglarized four times, and was just beaten. You are commenting what he should have done with the time and level-headedness to respond in a rational situation after looking through everything. This guy was reacting on the fly and the people could have been plotting to come back more armed for all he knew.
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Vamtrl
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Postby Vamtrl » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:38 pm

Delmonte wrote:
Alyakia wrote:
no it isn't that is not how self-defence works goddamn

Read. The. Fucking. Castle. Doctrine. ""when the actor reasonably fears peril, imminent or future upon failure to act, of death or serious bodily harm to him or herself or another"" Actually just read it. Then say things.


I am sure he felt terribly periled and bodily threatened while the woman was down on the ground bleeding to death. God bless his wounded soul, he must have been absolutely terrified.

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:38 pm

Vamtrl wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:
"Hey - I just broke into your house to steal your stuff, molesting you in the proces, but I am pregnant so be nice to me"


Terrible attempt at describing what happened, I want to double tap you now.

Go ahead, I am a zombie anyway.

But no doubt in a similar situation you would be fully rational, very sweet and forgiving after just being robbed and having several bones broken.
You are a good man. This man was slightly less nice.
Getting an education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease.
It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.
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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:39 pm

Delmonte wrote:
Wisconsin9 wrote:Were both shots fired as the woman was running, or was she hit and then shot while down?

In the first case, yeah, self-defense. In the second, she no longer posed a threat, and the guy should be charged.

Dude, in the fray that often can't be helped. Would you be thinking clearly after you were assaulted? By prosecuting him, you're deterring people from defending themselves. Plain and simple.

You can't kill someone who's running the fuck away and claim self defense. It doesn't work that way.
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Nazi Flower Power
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Postby Nazi Flower Power » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:39 pm

If he is convicted, he should get a relatively light sentence due to the circumstances, but that's not self-defense.
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