Looking at Communism from different Engels

[Unitaristic Regions]

Revolution failed in the Soviet Union, and that country subsequently bastardised the revolutions of the 20th century.

Very true.

[Genivaria]

If the USSR was actually set up as a federation of democratic councils, which is actually what a Soviet is, then I think things would've gone alot differently.

[Blakk Metal]

Did you say eagles?

[Unitaristic Regions]

Did you say eagles?
(Image)

MURICA LIBERTY PROPERTY LIBERTY MURICA CAPTALISM

[The New Sea Territory]

Did you say eagles?
(Image)

MURICA LIBERTY PROPERTY LIBERTY MURICA CAPTALISM

In the name of the Republican Jesus, The Burger King and Ronald Gipper Reagan...

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Frankly, it was the realization that several had tried without success that caused me to realize that the problem wasn't necessarily with capitalist bastards or communist bastards, but with people being bastards. The best system in my eyes is one that gives people an outlet for their bastardry without allowing it to affect others to the point of immediate harm or lack of basic necessities.

If people are bastards, why support a government full of bastards, as anyone who serves as a government is a bastard in general.

Because if you have some bastards keeping an eye on other bastards, it tends to lower the amount of bastardry without eliminating it completely. Supporting a government that's not full of bastards means supporting a government set in a fictitious universe, like the Federation in Star Trek.

[The New Sea Territory]

If people are bastards, why support a government full of bastards, as anyone who serves as a government is a bastard in general.

Because if you have some bastards keeping an eye on other bastards, it tends to lower the amount of bastardry without eliminating it completely. Supporting a government that's not full of bastards means supporting a government set in a fictitious universe, like the Federation in Star Trek.

That's why I don't support bastards. Statists call my idealistic, but you yourself said looking for a good state is Star Trek levels of plot holes and irrationality. Not saying anarchism won't eliminate bastardry, but that the tools for bastards to use to oppress others are lessened in power.

[Unitaristic Regions]

Because if you have some bastards keeping an eye on other bastards, it tends to lower the amount of bastardry without eliminating it completely. Supporting a government that's not full of bastards means supporting a government set in a fictitious universe, like the Federation in Star Trek.

That's why I don't support bastards. Statists call my idealistic, but you yourself said looking for a good state is Star Trek levels of plot holes and irrationality. Not saying anarchism won't eliminate bastardry, but that the tools for bastards to use to oppress others are lessened in power.

Anarchism unite!

[United Marxist Nations]

I like Hoxha, and have mixed feelings about Stalin. Eurocommunists, revisionists, Left Communists, etc. have to realize that before you can reach socialism, you have to create the conditions under which it can occur; in their case, that meant building up industry, increasing life-expectancy, and increasing literacy. For those who say that they should have been slower in it, you have to realize that both countries were under threat.

[Unitaristic Regions]

I like Hoxha, and have mixed feelings about Stalin. Eurocommunists, revisionists, Left Communists, etc. have to realize that before you can reach socialism, you have to create the conditions under which it can occur; in their case, that meant building up industry, increasing life-expectancy, and increasing literacy. For those who say that they should have been slower in it, you have to realize that both countries were under threat.

Because Hoxha was doctrinally pure?

[Blakk Metal]

I like Hoxha, and have mixed feelings about Stalin. Eurocommunists, revisionists, Left Communists, etc. have to realize that before you can reach socialism, you have to create the conditions under which it can occur; in their case, that meant building up industry, increasing life-expectancy, and increasing literacy. For those who say that they should have been slower in it, you have to realize that both countries were under threat.

Because Hoxha was doctrinally pure?

He created the only sane muslim state.

[The Orson Empire]

Communism is a flawed ideology, and always will be. It has never worked.

[Unitaristic Regions]

Because Hoxha was doctrinally pure?

He created the only sane muslim state.

Good enough.

[Margno]

My understanding of it is that by "true communism," a lot of people mean anarchist communism of the likes described by Marx, as opposed to the totalitarian communism that gained popularity in the twentieth century. That is to say, they're advocating an entirely different ideology, it's not a no true Scotsman. That said, there are orthodox Marxist-Leninists on here as well, who maintain that while those states may have had problems, they were on a path which would have eventually changed the world into a far more just one, at which time they would be able to set up different kinds of political systems. Sort of like authoritarian socialism is the treatment for a bedridden man's flu, and communism is being well and going outside. I don't see any no true Scotsman fallacy in that either, though I don't agree with it: they're trying to differentiate between what they consider to be a temporary state designed to kill capitalism, and the state they intend to establish once it's dead.

[The New Sea Territory]

Because Hoxha was doctrinally pure?

He created the only sane muslim state.

Well...a state with religious sympathies should not exist. Applauding someone for being the only "rational homophobe" or "nonviolent fascist" would be the same.

[Allet Klar Chefs]

Because Hoxha was doctrinally pure?

He created the only sane muslim state.

The kind of sane muslim state where beards are banned and hundreds of thousands of pillboxes are constructed.

Yes.

[United Marxist Nations]

Because Hoxha was doctrinally pure?

He created the only sane muslim state.

What?

[The New Sea Territory]

Communism is a flawed ideology, and always will be. It has never worked.

Except when it did temporarily in Ukraine before being crushed. By none other than the Bullshitviks.

[Allet Klar Chefs]

He created the only sane muslim state.

Good enough.

No actually look up what you're talking about. Blakk Metal is talking shite.

[Blasveck]

Well if you're going to claim "No True Scotsman" judt because people disagree, you're going to have to back it up. Modern communists argue that the USSR, Mao's China and the like weren't communist, most notably in fact because communism necessitates a lack of a state.

Which USSR, Mao, Pol Pot, and whomever else did not institute.

Well, that was easy.

[The New Sea Territory]

My understanding of it is that by "true communism," a lot of people mean anarchist communism of the likes described by Marx, as opposed to the totalitarian communism that gained popularity in the twentieth century. That is to say, they're advocating an entirely different ideology, it's not a no true Scotsman. That said, there are orthodox Marxist-Leninists on here, who maintain that while those states may have had problems, they were on a path which would have eventually changed the world into a far more just one, at which time they would be able to set up different kinds of political systems. Sort of like authoritarian socialism is the cure for a bedridden man's flu, and communism is being well and going outside. I don't see any no true Scotsman fallacy in that either, though I don't agree with it.

Marx didn't describe anarchist communism....he describes...(drum rolls)...Marxism!

But seriously, Marxists, Marxist Variants and Anarchists all have the same endgoal (stateless, classless society with worker ownership of MoP), just different ways of achieving it.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Because if you have some bastards keeping an eye on other bastards, it tends to lower the amount of bastardry without eliminating it completely. Supporting a government that's not full of bastards means supporting a government set in a fictitious universe, like the Federation in Star Trek.

That's why I don't support bastards. Statists call my idealistic, but you yourself said looking for a good state is Star Trek levels of plot holes and irrationality. Not saying anarchism won't eliminate bastardry, but that the tools for bastards to use to oppress others are lessened in power.

And the tools to prevent people from directly being bastards to each other are nonexistent. Fuck. That. Noise.

[United Marxist Nations]

Well if you're going to claim "No True Scotsman" judt because people disagree, you're going to have to back it up. Modern communists argue that the USSR, Mao's China and the like weren't communist, most notably in fact because communism necessitates a lack of a state.

Which USSR, Mao, Pol Pot, and whomever else did not institute.

Well, that was easy.

It would have been foolish to institute communism with the entire rest of the world being hostile to communism,

[The New Sea Territory]

That's why I don't support bastards. Statists call my idealistic, but you yourself said looking for a good state is Star Trek levels of plot holes and irrationality. Not saying anarchism won't eliminate bastardry, but that the tools for bastards to use to oppress others are lessened in power.

And the tools to prevent people from directly being bastards to each other are nonexistent. Fuck. That. Noise.

No they aren't. The state is a tool. It can be used for good, and bad. When it's bad, it's REEELY bad. To protect ourselves, I say we work without a state. Yes, tools exist on both sides, but they aren't as powerful.

[The New Sea Territory]

Well if you're going to claim "No True Scotsman" judt because people disagree, you're going to have to back it up. Modern communists argue that the USSR, Mao's China and the like weren't communist, most notably in fact because communism necessitates a lack of a state.

Which USSR, Mao, Pol Pot, and whomever else did not institute.

Well, that was easy.

It would have been foolish to institute communism with the entire rest of the world being hostile to communism,

Ah, yes. We must wait...*looks at watch* until the end of our glorious five year plan before achieving communism.

Forty years later

Only four years left until we complete our new glorious five year plan and achieve communism!