Yanalia wrote:Revolution failed in the Soviet Union, and that country subsequently bastardised the revolutions of the 20th century.
Very true.
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by Unitaristic Regions » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:33 pm
Yanalia wrote:Revolution failed in the Soviet Union, and that country subsequently bastardised the revolutions of the 20th century.
by Blakk Metal » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:35 pm
by Unitaristic Regions » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:39 pm
by The New Sea Territory » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:40 pm
| Ⓐ ☭ | Anarchist Communist | Heideggerian Marxist | Vegetarian | Bisexual | Stirnerite | Slavic/Germanic Pagan | ᚨ ᛟ |
Solntsa Roshcha --- Postmodern Poyltheist
"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
of darkness with mystically brutal fury to dim the serene and festive exultation of the dionysian spirit of our pagan ancestors."
-Renzo Novatore, Verso il Nulla Creatore
by Yumyumsuppertime » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:40 pm
The New Sea Territory wrote:Yumyumsuppertime wrote:Frankly, it was the realization that several had tried without success that caused me to realize that the problem wasn't necessarily with capitalist bastards or communist bastards, but with people being bastards. The best system in my eyes is one that gives people an outlet for their bastardry without allowing it to affect others to the point of immediate harm or lack of basic necessities.
If people are bastards, why support a government full of bastards, as anyone who serves as a government is a bastard in general.
by The New Sea Territory » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:43 pm
Yumyumsuppertime wrote:The New Sea Territory wrote:
If people are bastards, why support a government full of bastards, as anyone who serves as a government is a bastard in general.
Because if you have some bastards keeping an eye on other bastards, it tends to lower the amount of bastardry without eliminating it completely. Supporting a government that's not full of bastards means supporting a government set in a fictitious universe, like the Federation in Star Trek.
| Ⓐ ☭ | Anarchist Communist | Heideggerian Marxist | Vegetarian | Bisexual | Stirnerite | Slavic/Germanic Pagan | ᚨ ᛟ |
Solntsa Roshcha --- Postmodern Poyltheist
"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
of darkness with mystically brutal fury to dim the serene and festive exultation of the dionysian spirit of our pagan ancestors."
-Renzo Novatore, Verso il Nulla Creatore
by Unitaristic Regions » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:43 pm
The New Sea Territory wrote:Yumyumsuppertime wrote:
Because if you have some bastards keeping an eye on other bastards, it tends to lower the amount of bastardry without eliminating it completely. Supporting a government that's not full of bastards means supporting a government set in a fictitious universe, like the Federation in Star Trek.
That's why I don't support bastards. Statists call my idealistic, but you yourself said looking for a good state is Star Trek levels of plot holes and irrationality. Not saying anarchism won't eliminate bastardry, but that the tools for bastards to use to oppress others are lessened in power.
by United Marxist Nations » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:48 pm
The Kievan People wrote: United Marxist Nations: A prayer for every soul, a plan for every economy and a waifu for every man. Solid.
St. John Chrysostom wrote:A comprehended God is no God.
by Unitaristic Regions » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:49 pm
United Marxist Nations wrote:I like Hoxha, and have mixed feelings about Stalin. Eurocommunists, revisionists, Left Communists, etc. have to realize that before you can reach socialism, you have to create the conditions under which it can occur; in their case, that meant building up industry, increasing life-expectancy, and increasing literacy. For those who say that they should have been slower in it, you have to realize that both countries were under threat.
by Blakk Metal » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:50 pm
Unitaristic Regions wrote:United Marxist Nations wrote:I like Hoxha, and have mixed feelings about Stalin. Eurocommunists, revisionists, Left Communists, etc. have to realize that before you can reach socialism, you have to create the conditions under which it can occur; in their case, that meant building up industry, increasing life-expectancy, and increasing literacy. For those who say that they should have been slower in it, you have to realize that both countries were under threat.
Because Hoxha was doctrinally pure?
by The Orson Empire » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:51 pm
by Unitaristic Regions » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:52 pm
by Margno » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:52 pm
by The New Sea Territory » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:52 pm
| Ⓐ ☭ | Anarchist Communist | Heideggerian Marxist | Vegetarian | Bisexual | Stirnerite | Slavic/Germanic Pagan | ᚨ ᛟ |
Solntsa Roshcha --- Postmodern Poyltheist
"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
of darkness with mystically brutal fury to dim the serene and festive exultation of the dionysian spirit of our pagan ancestors."
-Renzo Novatore, Verso il Nulla Creatore
by Allet Klar Chefs » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:53 pm
by United Marxist Nations » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:53 pm
The Kievan People wrote: United Marxist Nations: A prayer for every soul, a plan for every economy and a waifu for every man. Solid.
St. John Chrysostom wrote:A comprehended God is no God.
by The New Sea Territory » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:53 pm
The Orson Empire wrote:Communism is a flawed ideology, and always will be. It has never worked.
| Ⓐ ☭ | Anarchist Communist | Heideggerian Marxist | Vegetarian | Bisexual | Stirnerite | Slavic/Germanic Pagan | ᚨ ᛟ |
Solntsa Roshcha --- Postmodern Poyltheist
"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
of darkness with mystically brutal fury to dim the serene and festive exultation of the dionysian spirit of our pagan ancestors."
-Renzo Novatore, Verso il Nulla Creatore
by Allet Klar Chefs » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:54 pm
by Blasveck » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:54 pm
by The New Sea Territory » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:55 pm
Margno wrote:My understanding of it is that by "true communism," a lot of people mean anarchist communism of the likes described by Marx, as opposed to the totalitarian communism that gained popularity in the twentieth century. That is to say, they're advocating an entirely different ideology, it's not a no true Scotsman. That said, there are orthodox Marxist-Leninists on here, who maintain that while those states may have had problems, they were on a path which would have eventually changed the world into a far more just one, at which time they would be able to set up different kinds of political systems. Sort of like authoritarian socialism is the cure for a bedridden man's flu, and communism is being well and going outside. I don't see any no true Scotsman fallacy in that either, though I don't agree with it.
| Ⓐ ☭ | Anarchist Communist | Heideggerian Marxist | Vegetarian | Bisexual | Stirnerite | Slavic/Germanic Pagan | ᚨ ᛟ |
Solntsa Roshcha --- Postmodern Poyltheist
"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
of darkness with mystically brutal fury to dim the serene and festive exultation of the dionysian spirit of our pagan ancestors."
-Renzo Novatore, Verso il Nulla Creatore
by Yumyumsuppertime » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:55 pm
The New Sea Territory wrote:Yumyumsuppertime wrote:
Because if you have some bastards keeping an eye on other bastards, it tends to lower the amount of bastardry without eliminating it completely. Supporting a government that's not full of bastards means supporting a government set in a fictitious universe, like the Federation in Star Trek.
That's why I don't support bastards. Statists call my idealistic, but you yourself said looking for a good state is Star Trek levels of plot holes and irrationality. Not saying anarchism won't eliminate bastardry, but that the tools for bastards to use to oppress others are lessened in power.
by United Marxist Nations » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:56 pm
Blasveck wrote:Well if you're going to claim "No True Scotsman" judt because people disagree, you're going to have to back it up. Modern communists argue that the USSR, Mao's China and the like weren't communist, most notably in fact because communism necessitates a lack of a state.
Which USSR, Mao, Pol Pot, and whomever else did not institute.
Well, that was easy.
The Kievan People wrote: United Marxist Nations: A prayer for every soul, a plan for every economy and a waifu for every man. Solid.
St. John Chrysostom wrote:A comprehended God is no God.
by The New Sea Territory » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:57 pm
Yumyumsuppertime wrote:The New Sea Territory wrote:
That's why I don't support bastards. Statists call my idealistic, but you yourself said looking for a good state is Star Trek levels of plot holes and irrationality. Not saying anarchism won't eliminate bastardry, but that the tools for bastards to use to oppress others are lessened in power.
And the tools to prevent people from directly being bastards to each other are nonexistent. Fuck. That. Noise.
| Ⓐ ☭ | Anarchist Communist | Heideggerian Marxist | Vegetarian | Bisexual | Stirnerite | Slavic/Germanic Pagan | ᚨ ᛟ |
Solntsa Roshcha --- Postmodern Poyltheist
"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
of darkness with mystically brutal fury to dim the serene and festive exultation of the dionysian spirit of our pagan ancestors."
-Renzo Novatore, Verso il Nulla Creatore
by The New Sea Territory » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:58 pm
United Marxist Nations wrote:Blasveck wrote:Well if you're going to claim "No True Scotsman" judt because people disagree, you're going to have to back it up. Modern communists argue that the USSR, Mao's China and the like weren't communist, most notably in fact because communism necessitates a lack of a state.
Which USSR, Mao, Pol Pot, and whomever else did not institute.
Well, that was easy.
It would have been foolish to institute communism with the entire rest of the world being hostile to communism,
| Ⓐ ☭ | Anarchist Communist | Heideggerian Marxist | Vegetarian | Bisexual | Stirnerite | Slavic/Germanic Pagan | ᚨ ᛟ |
Solntsa Roshcha --- Postmodern Poyltheist
"Christianity had brutally planted the poisoned blade in the healthy, quivering flesh of all humanity; it had goaded a cold wave
of darkness with mystically brutal fury to dim the serene and festive exultation of the dionysian spirit of our pagan ancestors."
-Renzo Novatore, Verso il Nulla Creatore
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