Surge 2014: A debate on Illegal Immigration and US Policies.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I like that the language of "The Surge" deliberately evokes the idea of an insurgency which turns your average Yank into a member of the Mahdi army against the crushing tide of imperialist boots on the ground (who in this case are a trickle of extremely socially and economically vulnerable central Americans rather than some cunts with drones etc.).

Are they expecting the general public to suicide bomb a string of malls or something?

It's some guys coming to your country, that's going to happen if you say you're the best.

And we also say that we have opportunity for anyone who is willing to pursue gainful employment, and we are getting people looking for exactly that. I think we ought to send ships down their and bring them in by the boat-load. Anyone who is coming to our country wanting to do honest work and live like a good person, I say bring them on in. Bring in as many as possible. More manpower for our military, more people willing to do honest work; damn, that's some good shit. If we had any sense, we would be out dancing in the streets.

And I can tell you from experience that immigrants are good for the average working man. Cheap labor for lower-skill jobs means that employers can hire more people for positions that require special training and a college education, and they are more likely to be able to stay in business, continuing to provide work for their communities. I have known situations like this first-hand. A friend, right before the recession, hired a Venezuelan metalworker who was willing to work cheap, and it was a large part of the reason he was able to keep his store open during the recession, which made jobs for the sales girls who also worked there (and were New Yorkers by birth).

Furthermore, immigrants are trained better in traditional methods of craftsmanship, which is good for job-creating small businesses. They can't afford gigantic machinery to get things done. One good metal-worker who is capable of using hundreds-of-years-old techniques, and that creates jobs for other Americans who don't have the same skills but who might be able to later modernize the business as it grows and expands.

Successful immigrants go on to open up their own enterprises. I am very much convinced that immigrants bring us opportunity if we were only willing to tap the potential they bring with them.

I'll even cite Forbes, which is a center-right business journal:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/20 ... migration/

Ship them in! For heaven sake, if a guy comes to the border and says, "I can do work for cheap, and I can make your business grow. I try getting work back home, but he stink," then WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU WAITING FOR? Give the guy a ticket IN. You are dealing with someone who has trekked hundreds of miles through unknown perils, risking death, just to be able to do honest, mutually enriching business with you. It doesn't make sense to turn this person away.

Besides that, just by trying so desperately to get here, these guys are paying our country a high compliment. Did you ever think of that? I don't know about you, but that's a boon to my nationalist ego. "Yeah, we really are awesome, here. Just so you know, you gotta be the best to make it, buster." I mean, that FEELS GOOD, to be in a position to say that.

[Othelos]

A one child policy would also work wonders. China's economy has greatly improved since they implemented this policy. The Central American women need to stop having children they can't afford. They are irresponsible.

China's one-child policy has recently been slackened, because it's leading to a population crisis. By 2050, China is going to go over what the UN is terming a “population cliff.” It'll be the biggest percentage reduction in a localized population since the Black Death.

Yeah, and from 2030-2100, china is predicted to lose ~350-400 million people.

I wonder what that'll be like, to lose 400 million people over 70 years.

[Freiheit Reich]

Why do you insist on supporting illegal immigrants who deliberately break the law? You think Americans should know the laws but that illegal immigrants are OK with breaking them.

Fine, they should stay if they can pay the $500 a day fine. How many actually pay these stiff fines?

Are you a law supporter or a person that is against following the laws? I am confused.

I am a pragmatist.

The US has historically been strongest when immigration—“legal” or “illegal,” those these are very relative terms since there is only such a distinction when artificial, anti-capitalist/anti-freedom controls are introduced—has been higher. As a consequence, I don't give a fuck about our stupid immigration regulations, really, our form system flat out doesn't work and discourages people from immigrating to the US permanently. Instead, we make it easy to get a degree and impossible to get a job.

A one child policy would also work wonders. China's economy has greatly improved since they implemented this policy. The Central American women need to stop having children they can't afford. They are irresponsible.

China's one-child policy has recently been slackened, because it's leading to a population crisis. By 2050, China is going to go over what the UN is terming a “population cliff.” It'll be the biggest percentage reduction in a localized population since the Black Death.

The lack of any kind of predictive thinking is outstanding.

Mind you, lots of ideas mentioned would probably work if humans were identical to Sims.

Whoa whoa whoa, now, hold up.

Humans aren't like Sims?! Shit, that changes everything.

Even if China drops their population to 500 million they would still be overcrowded. Half of their country can't handle high population because the land is not fertile (Tibet, Xinjiang, Qinghai) so you are placing 90% of the population in a land area about 50% of the size of the USA. That is still crowded.

Maybe if population can drop by 50% in the world, we wouldn't need to use growth hormones and dangerous pesticides in our food.

Honduras has increased their population to 500% of their 1945 level. This results in a strain on resources and poverty. If more people made a nation stronger, why are nations with high populations like India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, and Indonesia experiencing high levels of poverty?

China's one child policy only caused a problem due to people choosing girls over boys. The solution is easy. If an imbalance is occurring, you let people keep trying until they have a boy. A family with 5 girls and no sons could keep trying until they get their son.

A lot of foreign exchange students in the USA are wealthy. Perhaps we could sell permanent residency to them cheaper if they obtain a 4 year degree in the USA in a useful field (sorry-we don't need more art or English majors). Perhaps the price could drop to $250,000 which is considered very cheap. If they don't commit any felonies in a 5 year period, they obtain citizenship. If they commit a crime in the 5 year period, they get sent back with a refund (no interest though). This only gets them in the USA-we can't make it as easy for them to bring in foreign family members though unless they can pay for them.

[Freiheit Reich]

Tell me, without talking about racism, how the US is stronger now than in 1964.

The US now has better support for the working poor, better working conditions for working-class persons, median wages are slightly higher (though they should be even higher, but that's another discussion), the US has a more widespread highway infrastructure, better air traffic infrastructure, and we have a much more effective military.

Just to name a few things we're better off in. Besides, racism is still very prevalent in the US today, afraid I can't say that's something we've adequately curtailed to consider an improvement. By '64 most of the worst of racism had largely passed on, outside of the South, at least.

In 1964 it took much less time for the average wage earner to buy a gallon of gas, a new car, or a new house. Less jobs also required a university education. The economy of the USA if worse now than in 1964.

http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/1964.html

http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/pricebasket.html

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/11/aver ... me-record/

The military was weak in 1964 and in 2014. We couldn't beat Vietnam then and we can't beat Afghanistan now.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

A lot of foreign exchange students in the USA are wealthy. Perhaps we could sell permanent residency to them cheaper if they obtain a 4 year degree in the USA in a useful field (sorry-we don't need more art or English majors). Perhaps the price could drop to $250,000 which is considered very cheap. If they don't commit any felonies in a 5 year period, they obtain citizenship. If they commit a crime in the 5 year period, they get sent back with a refund (no interest though). This only gets them in the USA-we can't make it as easy for them to bring in foreign family members though unless they can pay for them.

Yea, right. And next you'll tell me Donald Trump can be the citizen of the world.

You know? I must thank you for the laughs. Never before have I seen so ill-thought propositions and arguments. You truly should try to write comedy and satire, it suits you.

[Souldek]

Yes, these illegals have had a hard-life, and it would be great if they could all come to U.S. But does no one realise that since Obama has been in power the national debt has gone from 9 trillion to 17 trillion?

It's not all about race and not giving these people a fair shot, America CAN'T afford to look after these people. As I said a few days ago, look after your own yard before helping out others. Too many people in America are living in poverty, where's all their free handouts from the government?

[Freiheit Reich]

A lot of foreign exchange students in the USA are wealthy. Perhaps we could sell permanent residency to them cheaper if they obtain a 4 year degree in the USA in a useful field (sorry-we don't need more art or English majors). Perhaps the price could drop to $250,000 which is considered very cheap. If they don't commit any felonies in a 5 year period, they obtain citizenship. If they commit a crime in the 5 year period, they get sent back with a refund (no interest though). This only gets them in the USA-we can't make it as easy for them to bring in foreign family members though unless they can pay for them.

Yea, right. And next you'll tell me Donald Trump can be the citizen of the world.

You know? I must thank you for the laughs. Never before have I seen so ill-thought propositions and arguments. You truly should try to write comedy and satire, it suits you.

Plenty of countries do this, even in Europe, would a liberal dare criticize Europe?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101198433

[Freiheit Reich]

Yes, these illegals have had a hard-life, and it would be great if they could all come to U.S. But does no one realise that since Obama has been in power the national debt has gone from 9 trillion to 17 trillion?

It's not all about race and not giving these people a fair shot, America CAN'T afford to look after these people. As I said a few days ago, look after your own yard before helping out others. Too many people in America are living in poverty, where's all their free handouts from the government?

Liberals believe that the money will fall magically out of the sky and that all is well as long as we have democrats in power. Liberals believe in a magical land of rainbows, fairies, and unicorns. If they wish for things to come true they will.

They also think more diversity is always great, no matter what (regardless of crime rates in the nations of immigrants or their education/poverty levels). They spent too much time on 'It's a Small World' Ride as children and think all foreigners are kind and gentle and that they would make their neighborhood look hip and trendy. Wealthy immigrants with good education and from civilized nations that have low crime rates might do this (ex. Chile, Taiwan, Japan, Singapore, and certain European nations if the people have European ethnic backgrounds) would make the neighborhood better. Poor and undereducated people from violent nations like Syria, Iraq, Honduras, and Somalia will likely hurt rather than help the neighborhood. Liberals will quickly disagree and say all nations should be treated equally (magic fairy dust will make all nations and all immigrants from various nations equal I guess).

[Souldek]

Yes, these illegals have had a hard-life, and it would be great if they could all come to U.S. But does no one realise that since Obama has been in power the national debt has gone from 9 trillion to 17 trillion?

It's not all about race and not giving these people a fair shot, America CAN'T afford to look after these people. As I said a few days ago, look after your own yard before helping out others. Too many people in America are living in poverty, where's all their free handouts from the government?

Liberals believe that the money will fall magically out of the sky and that all is well as long as we have democrats in power. Liberals believe in a magical land of rainbows, fairies, and unicorns. If they wish for things to come true they will.

They also think more diversity is always great, no matter what (regardless of crime rates in the nations of immigrants or their education/poverty levels). They spent too much time on 'It's a Small World' Ride as children and think all foreigners are kind and gentle and that they would make their neighborhood look hip and trendy. Wealthy immigrants with good education and from civilized nations that have low crime rates might do this (ex. Chile, Taiwan, Japan, Singapore, and certain European nations if the people have European ethnic backgrounds) would make the neighborhood better. Poor and undereducated people from violent nations like Syria, Iraq, Honduras, and Somalia will likely hurt rather than help the neighborhood. Liberals will quickly disagree and say all nations should be treated equally (magic fairy dust will make all nations and all immigrants from various nations equal I guess).

Liberal ideology is, like you said, magical fairy land. Countries can't survive with ideologies like this, and as many describe it, will be the "suicide of the West". I'm not American, so I have no clue what the situation is like personally, but I even I can see that Obama is an anti-American socialist, and I'm absolutely shocked at how many Americans actually believe he is a good president and how many people are so left-wing, they can't see that acts like the illegal immigration crisis is destroying america internally.

I know in this day and age you can't say this, but America needs to only take in selective immigrates. They don't need any more population booms. They need to get the country's economy and national debt back on track. To do this, they need to only bring in educated and working people from other developed nations; like the ones you listed above. It's the only way Western nations can stay afloat. It seems cruel to a lot of people, but in reality it's for our survival as a society and our standards of living.

We are told as kids that life is unfair, and that's exactly what it is. Not everyone can enjoy the standards of living and wealth Western nations have: reality. And don't worry, we'll fall soon, and I bet you no one will take us in. Since the birth of civilisation it's been the same, so why does everyone all of a sudden think that the wealth can be destributed equally? And I bet you all the people that cry out for it live in their flash houses, with their flash cars. You gotta work for everything you get in life.

[Farnhamia]

Liberals believe that the money will fall magically out of the sky and that all is well as long as we have democrats in power. Liberals believe in a magical land of rainbows, fairies, and unicorns. If they wish for things to come true they will.

They also think more diversity is always great, no matter what (regardless of crime rates in the nations of immigrants or their education/poverty levels). They spent too much time on 'It's a Small World' Ride as children and think all foreigners are kind and gentle and that they would make their neighborhood look hip and trendy. Wealthy immigrants with good education and from civilized nations that have low crime rates might do this (ex. Chile, Taiwan, Japan, Singapore, and certain European nations if the people have European ethnic backgrounds) would make the neighborhood better. Poor and undereducated people from violent nations like Syria, Iraq, Honduras, and Somalia will likely hurt rather than help the neighborhood. Liberals will quickly disagree and say all nations should be treated equally (magic fairy dust will make all nations and all immigrants from various nations equal I guess).

Liberal ideology is, like you said, magical fairy land. Countries can't survive with ideologies like this, and as many describe it, will be the "suicide of the West". I'm not American, so I have no clue what the situation is like personally, but I even I can see that Obama is an anti-American socialist, and I'm absolutely shocked at how many Americans actually believe he is a good president and how many people are so left-wing, they can't see that acts like the illegal immigration crisis is destroying america internally.

Please do explain how the illegal immigration crisis is destroying America, I want to help my country and more information is always good.

[Blakk Metal]

Yes, these illegals have had a hard-life, and it would be great if they could all come to U.S. But does no one realise that since Obama has been in power the national debt has gone from 9 trillion to 17 trillion?

It's not all about race and not giving these people a fair shot, America CAN'T afford to look after these people. As I said a few days ago, look after your own yard before helping out others. Too many people in America are living in poverty, where's all their free handouts from the government?

Liberals believe that the money will fall magically out of the sky and that all is well as long as we have democrats in power. Liberals believe in a magical land of rainbows, fairies, and unicorns. If they wish for things to come true they will.

To be fair, the government does make its money out of nowhere.

[Dixie]

Please do explain how the illegal immigration crisis is destroying America, I want to help my country and more information is always good.

More people might become bilingual, and that's bad. Plus, remember the crises when the Irish and Italians immigrated here? America was destroyed twice. We're basically Troy.

[Arkinesia]

The military was weak in 1964 and in 2014. We couldn't beat Vietnam then and we can't beat Afghanistan now.

LOL, the US never lost a major engagement in Vietnam. I think you must be thinking of a different war or something? Maybe confusing it for the second war in Iraq? Before you mention the Tet Offensive, that was such a colossal failure that it forced the North Vietnamese to the negotiation table.

Even if China drops their population to 500 million they would still be overcrowded. Half of their country can't handle high population because the land is not fertile (Tibet, Xinjiang, Qinghai) so you are placing 90% of the population in a land area about 50% of the size of the USA. That is still crowded.

If that were true, that would mean that those 500 million people would be living in a space where 320 million could each have about 9 acres for every person. So each of those 500 million would be able to have about 5 acres to themselves. You call that overcrowding? That's enough space for every Chinese citizen to have their own damn mansion. Besides…

Maybe if population can drop by 50% in the world, we wouldn't need to use growth hormones and dangerous pesticides in our food.

The global population will plateau and remain relatively stable at about 8-9 billion. We already produce enough food for 10 billion people, we just need to learn how to live within our existing means.

Honduras has increased their population to 500% of their 1945 level. This results in a strain on resources and poverty. If more people made a nation stronger, why are nations with high populations like India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, and Indonesia experiencing high levels of poverty?

Poor management. India, until recently, was choked with bureaucracy; Bangladesh is awash in corruption, Pakistan is little better, and whether or not you wish to believe this is the case, poverty is shrinking at a pretty good clip right now in Indonesia after ten years of successful management under President Yudhyono (a tradition only expected to continue under Joko Widodo).

But aside from that, immigrants to the US have historically built this country—hell, illegal Chinese labor built the railroads.

China's one child policy only caused a problem due to people choosing girls over boys. The solution is easy. If an imbalance is occurring, you let people keep trying until they have a boy. A family with 5 girls and no sons could keep trying until they get their son.

So then what's the point of a one-child policy?

A lot of foreign exchange students in the USA are wealthy. Perhaps we could sell permanent residency to them cheaper if they obtain a 4 year degree in the USA in a useful field (sorry-we don't need more art or English majors). Perhaps the price could drop to $250,000 which is considered very cheap. If they don't commit any felonies in a 5 year period, they obtain citizenship. If they commit a crime in the 5 year period, they get sent back with a refund (no interest though). This only gets them in the USA-we can't make it as easy for them to bring in foreign family members though unless they can pay for them.

$250,000 is more than most college degrees.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Yea, right. And next you'll tell me Donald Trump can be the citizen of the world.

You know? I must thank you for the laughs. Never before have I seen so ill-thought propositions and arguments. You truly should try to write comedy and satire, it suits you.

Plenty of countries do this, even in Europe, would a liberal dare criticize Europe?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101198433

The problem being is that you're comparing apples and oranges.

Europe is not America, and America isn't Europe. You can probably do cross-cultural studies and policies, but what applies to Europe doesn't apply to America, and what applies to China doesn't apply to America. Different cultures and policies.

Also, nice job at tacking the word "liberal" to me when I'm not even a liberal, but a pragmatist.

[The 502nd SS]

Whats a pragmatist?

[Dixie]

Whats a pragmatist?

A pretty interesting philosophy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatism

[Arkinesia]

Whats a pragmatist?

Pragmatism is a rejection of the idea that the function of thought is to describe, represent, or mirror reality. Instead, pragmatists develop their philosophy around the idea that the function of thought is as an instrument or tool for prediction, action, and problem solving. Pragmatists contend that most philosophical topics—such as the nature of knowledge, language, concepts, meaning, belief, and science—are all best viewed in terms of their practical uses and successes rather than in terms of representative accuracy.

Source

[Soldati Senza Confini]

They also think more diversity is always great, no matter what (regardless of crime rates in the nations of immigrants or their education/poverty levels). They spent too much time on 'It's a Small World' Ride as children and think all foreigners are kind and gentle and that they would make their neighborhood look hip and trendy.

Wealthy immigrants with good education and from civilized nations that have low crime rates might do this (ex. Chile, Taiwan, Japan, Singapore, and certain European nations if the people have European ethnic backgrounds) would make the neighborhood better. Poor and undereducated people from violent nations like Syria, Iraq, Honduras, and Somalia will likely hurt rather than help the neighborhood. Liberals will quickly disagree and say all nations should be treated equally (magic fairy dust will make all nations and all immigrants from various nations equal I guess).

Liberal ideology is, like you said, magical fairy land. Countries can't survive with ideologies like this, and as many describe it, will be the "suicide of the West". I'm not American, so I have no clue what the situation is like personally, but I even I can see that Obama is an anti-American socialist, and I'm absolutely shocked at how many Americans actually believe he is a good president and how many people are so left-wing, they can't see that acts like the illegal immigration crisis is destroying america internally.

As someone who comes from an underdeveloped nation and has a college degree I can tell you all your assertions about immigrants from those countries are bullshit. Please educate yourself more about the kind of people who immigrate before spewing shit-talk.

Also, illegal immigrants already here are not making the destruction of America internally. We as citizens seem to be doing a better job than they are.

[Othelos]

I am a pragmatist.

The US has historically been strongest when immigration—“legal” or “illegal,” those these are very relative terms since there is only such a distinction when artificial, anti-capitalist/anti-freedom controls are introduced—has been higher. As a consequence, I don't give a fuck about our stupid immigration regulations, really, our form system flat out doesn't work and discourages people from immigrating to the US permanently. Instead, we make it easy to get a degree and impossible to get a job.


China's one-child policy has recently been slackened, because it's leading to a population crisis. By 2050, China is going to go over what the UN is terming a “population cliff.” It'll be the biggest percentage reduction in a localized population since the Black Death.


Whoa whoa whoa, now, hold up.

Humans aren't like Sims?! Shit, that changes everything.

Even if China drops their population to 500 million they would still be overcrowded. Half of their country can't handle high population because the land is not fertile (Tibet, Xinjiang, Qinghai) so you are placing 90% of the population in a land area about 50% of the size of the USA. That is still crowded.

Maybe if population can drop by 50% in the world, we wouldn't need to use growth hormones and dangerous pesticides in our food.

Honduras has increased their population to 500% of their 1945 level. This results in a strain on resources and poverty. If more people made a nation stronger, why are nations with high populations like India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, and Indonesia experiencing high levels of poverty?

China's one child policy only caused a problem due to people choosing girls over boys. The solution is easy. If an imbalance is occurring, you let people keep trying until they have a boy. A family with 5 girls and no sons could keep trying until they get their son.

A lot of foreign exchange students in the USA are wealthy. Perhaps we could sell permanent residency to them cheaper if they obtain a 4 year degree in the USA in a useful field (sorry-we don't need more art or English majors). Perhaps the price could drop to $250,000 which is considered very cheap. If they don't commit any felonies in a 5 year period, they obtain citizenship. If they commit a crime in the 5 year period, they get sent back with a refund (no interest though). This only gets them in the USA-we can't make it as easy for them to bring in foreign family members though unless they can pay for them.

Instead of a one child policy (which is a violation of human rights), the governments in those countries could provide free contraception and sex education classes in schools, if they don't already.

The US now has better support for the working poor, better working conditions for working-class persons, median wages are slightly higher (though they should be even higher, but that's another discussion), the US has a more widespread highway infrastructure, better air traffic infrastructure, and we have a much more effective military.

Just to name a few things we're better off in. Besides, racism is still very prevalent in the US today, afraid I can't say that's something we've adequately curtailed to consider an improvement. By '64 most of the worst of racism had largely passed on, outside of the South, at least.

In 1964 it took much less time for the average wage earner to buy a gallon of gas, a new car, or a new house. Less jobs also required a university education. The economy of the USA if worse now than in 1964.

http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/1964.html

http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/pricebasket.html

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/11/aver ... me-record/

The military was weak in 1964 and in 2014. We couldn't beat Vietnam then and we can't beat Afghanistan now.

More jobs require a university education, because our economy is more advanced. It's based less on industry and more on service/advanced fields.

And yes, inflation has occured since 1964. I'm not sure why you think that makes the economy any worse than back then.

The military isn't weak, it's objectively difficult to attack guerrillas. And our goal wasn't to 'beat' Afghanistan.

Yes, these illegals have had a hard-life, and it would be great if they could all come to U.S. But does no one realise that since Obama has been in power the national debt has gone from 9 trillion to 17 trillion?

It's not all about race and not giving these people a fair shot, America CAN'T afford to look after these people. As I said a few days ago, look after your own yard before helping out others. Too many people in America are living in poverty, where's all their free handouts from the government?

Liberals believe that the money will fall magically out of the sky and that all is well as long as we have democrats in power. Liberals believe in a magical land of rainbows, fairies, and unicorns. If they wish for things to come true they will.

They also think more diversity is always great, no matter what (regardless of crime rates in the nations of immigrants or their education/poverty levels). They spent too much time on 'It's a Small World' Ride as children and think all foreigners are kind and gentle and that they would make their neighborhood look hip and trendy. Wealthy immigrants with good education and from civilized nations that have low crime rates might do this (ex. Chile, Taiwan, Japan, Singapore, and certain European nations if the people have European ethnic backgrounds) would make the neighborhood better. Poor and undereducated people from violent nations like Syria, Iraq, Honduras, and Somalia will likely hurt rather than help the neighborhood. Liberals will quickly disagree and say all nations should be treated equally (magic fairy dust will make all nations and all immigrants from various nations equal I guess).

Instead of saying 'liberals do this' and 'liberals do that' and spewing nonsense, how about actually researching or asking liberals what they think. You're way off, obviously, and your skewed perception is very fox news-y.

[Othelos]

Liberal ideology is, like you said, magical fairy land. Countries can't survive with ideologies like this, and as many describe it, will be the "suicide of the West". I'm not American, so I have no clue what the situation is like personally, but I even I can see that Obama is an anti-American socialist, and I'm absolutely shocked at how many Americans actually believe he is a good president and how many people are so left-wing, they can't see that acts like the illegal immigration crisis is destroying america internally.

I know in this day and age you can't say this, but America needs to only take in selective immigrates. They don't need any more population booms. They need to get the country's economy and national debt back on track. To do this, they need to only bring in educated and working people from other developed nations; like the ones you listed above. It's the only way Western nations can stay afloat. It seems cruel to a lot of people, but in reality it's for our survival as a society and our standards of living.

I'm not sure what you're thinking, but legal immigration to the US is pretty difficult. You can't just show up here.

And that's another problem. It's difficult to come to the US, even with a PhD. You have to jump through a lot of hoops.

We are told as kids that life is unfair, and that's exactly what it is. Not everyone can enjoy the standards of living and wealth Western nations have: reality. And don't worry, we'll fall soon, and I bet you no one will take us in. Since the birth of civilisation it's been the same, so why does everyone all of a sudden think that the wealth can be destributed equally? And I bet you all the people that cry out for it live in their flash houses, with their flash cars. You gotta work for everything you get in life.

...obviously. No one wants to bring all the poor people into the country and give them money.

[Farnhamia]

Liberal ideology is, like you said, magical fairy land. Countries can't survive with ideologies like this, and as many describe it, will be the "suicide of the West". I'm not American, so I have no clue what the situation is like personally, but I even I can see that Obama is an anti-American socialist, and I'm absolutely shocked at how many Americans actually believe he is a good president and how many people are so left-wing, they can't see that acts like the illegal immigration crisis is destroying america internally.

I know in this day and age you can't say this, but America needs to only take in selective immigrates. They don't need any more population booms. They need to get the country's economy and national debt back on track. To do this, they need to only bring in educated and working people from other developed nations; like the ones you listed above. It's the only way Western nations can stay afloat. It seems cruel to a lot of people, but in reality it's for our survival as a society and our standards of living.

I'm not sure what you're thinking, but legal immigration to the US is pretty difficult. You can't just show up here.

And that's another problem. It's difficult to come to the US, even with a PhD. You have to jump through a lot of hoops.

We are told as kids that life is unfair, and that's exactly what it is. Not everyone can enjoy the standards of living and wealth Western nations have: reality. And don't worry, we'll fall soon, and I bet you no one will take us in. Since the birth of civilisation it's been the same, so why does everyone all of a sudden think that the wealth can be destributed equally? And I bet you all the people that cry out for it live in their flash houses, with their flash cars. You gotta work for everything you get in life.

...obviously. No one wants to bring all the poor people into the country and give them money.

I seem to recall Sibirsky saying that it would take a manual worker with little or no education 149 years to go through the legal immigration process.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I seem to recall Sibirsky saying that it would take a manual worker with little or no education 149 years to go through the legal immigration process.

149 years?!

Good God, I'd probably give up and lose all hope for coming to the U.S. and rescind my application if that's how much I'd have been expecting.

My dad got me and my brothers into the country as legal immigrants in 7 years, but we got lucky. Children of business owners whose dad JUST became a citizen?! It was just too many things into one that made me and my brothers more expedient to become legal immigrants.

[Othelos]

I'm not sure what you're thinking, but legal immigration to the US is pretty difficult. You can't just show up here.

And that's another problem. It's difficult to come to the US, even with a PhD. You have to jump through a lot of hoops.



...obviously. No one wants to bring all the poor people into the country and give them money.

I seem to recall Sibirsky saying that it would take a manual worker with little or no education 149 years to go through the legal immigration process.

The government should issue temporary working permits for workers with low education. Illegal immigration wouldn't be such a big problem, then.

[Othelos]

I seem to recall Sibirsky saying that it would take a manual worker with little or no education 149 years to go through the legal immigration process.

149 years?!

Good God, I'd probably give up and lose all hope for coming to the U.S. and rescind my application if that's how much I'd have been expecting.

My dad got me and my brothers into the country as legal immigrants in 7 years, but we got lucky. Children of business owners whose dad JUST became a citizen?! It was just too many things into one that made me and my brothers more expedient to become legal immigrants.

It took my dad a couple years with a Phd and while married to an American.

[Farnhamia]

149 years?!

Good God, I'd probably give up and lose all hope for coming to the U.S. and rescind my application if that's how much I'd have been expecting.

My dad got me and my brothers into the country as legal immigrants in 7 years, but we got lucky. Children of business owners whose dad JUST became a citizen?! It was just too many things into one that made me and my brothers more expedient to become legal immigrants.

It took my dad a couple years with a Phd and while married to an American.

Right, so imagine you're ... what's the Latin American idiom for "Tom, Dick or Harry"? The US just isn't that welcoming anymore.