MRA's: Fighting for Men or Fighting Against Women?

[Allentyr]

Yes, thank you. Both groups should just stop and get along.

You should try first. I talked to radfems once and they called me by a new slur that translates as something in the lines of "walking/talking dick".

See how both sides can be total morons.

[Trotskylvania]

Exactly. Though I'd replace the custody inequalities with rape justice inequalities, as the reason more men don't get custody of their kids is because they don't seek custody.

But I digress.

They had their chance, failed, and started going after the group that, for the most part, is actually fighting for equality for all genders (and doing so successfully, and, not actually alienating any supporters).

Feminism is fighting for "all genders"? Oh, come on.

Anymore it is. The old men's movement has largely folded into the feminist movement largely because so-called "Men's Rights Activists" have made the very notion of masculist political organization toxic to the general public.

Need we forget AVFM's "Bash a Violent Bitch Month", hosting the manifestos of people who openly advocated terrorism against women and their male allies, making odious people into heroes (Thomas Ball) or misunderstood victims (Elliot Rodger), or idolizing an intellectual who is an open date rape and incest apologist (Warren Farrell) who thinks that male attraction to women undermines the very idea of institutionalized male power.

[Sdaeriji]

This thread is full of stupid.

MRAs hate women. Simple as that.

*sigh* Do you have to generalize a whole group?

It was only a small group of MRAs that started hating women, the rest just tagged along.

[SektorE]

*sigh* Do you have to generalize a whole group?

It was only a small group of MRAs that started hating women, the rest just tagged along.

It shows that men are united. I wouldn't be surprised if feminist groups started to fight with each other.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

See how both sides can be total morons.

More of stalking bullies.

In Facebook I'm battling in a war right now inside feminism between radfems who hate trans* people, especially those of "male-like" presentation and male birth assignment, and we transfeminists.

If you generalize feminist as the earlier, you'll just empower them. They aren't feminism, they're what happens when people who mix traumas, repression, frustration and self-esteem issues into hatred and serious ideologies that can be distorted into essentializing discourses meet.

Just like it's valid for cis men to talk about cis men issues.

[Sefard]

The poll is fairly indicative of the sexism men face.

When women freely associate to provide a forum to discuss their issues, it is progress.
When men freely associate to provide a forum to discuss their issues, it's a "hate group"

There are undesirables on both sides, but the great many are average individuals.

[Applebania]

This thread is full of stupid.

MRAs hate women. Simple as that.

*sigh* Do you have to generalize a whole group?

I could say the same thing to MRAs who demonise feminists.

[Dyakovo]

The poll is fairly indicative of the sexism men face.

When women freely associate to provide a forum to discuss their issues, it is progress.
When men freely associate to provide a forum to discuss their issues, it's a "hate group"

There are undesirables on both sides, but the great many are average individuals.

There's a reason for that.

[Allentyr]

See how both sides can be total morons.

More of stalking bullies.

In Facebook I'm battling in a war right now inside feminism between radfems who hate trans* people, especially those of "male-like" presentation and male birth assignment, and we transfeminists.

If you generalize feminist as the earlier, you'll just empower them. They aren't feminism, they're what happens when people who mix traumas, repression, frustration and self-esteem issues into hatred and serious ideologies that can be distorted into essentializing discourses meet.

Just like it's valid for cis men to talk about cis men issues.

So, you agree when I say feminists and MRAs should be stopped and form the Equalists?

[Aurora Novus]

*sigh* Do you have to generalize a whole group?

I could say the same thing to MRAs who demonise feminists.

Indeed.

Why people seem incapable of understanding that when one makes "Group X" type statements, they aren't literally saying all members of that group are X, is beyond me. They're pointing out a percieved consistent pattern of behavior within that group, they're not targeting every solitary individual.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

The poll is fairly indicative of the sexism men face.

When women freely associate to provide a forum to discuss their issues, it is progress.
When men freely associate to provide a forum to discuss their issues, it's a "hate group"

There are undesirables on both sides, but the great many are average individuals.

You are highly ignorant of the situation.

Feminism -> radical feminism -> trans-exclusionary radical feminism + male annihilation/ethnic cleansing movement

Men's movement -> MRAs -> Go-back-in-the-kitchen-baby-factory-ism

NOBODY denied that.

[The Union of the West]

*sigh* Do you have to generalize a whole group?

I could say the same thing to MRAs who demonise feminists.

And I could say the same thing to Feminists who demonize men. We all could generalize, and we'd all be wrong.

[Farnhamia]

The poll is fairly indicative of the sexism men face.

When women freely associate to provide a forum to discuss their issues, it is progress.
When men freely associate to provide a forum to discuss their issues, it's a "hate group"

There are undesirables on both sides, but the great many are average individuals.

I do believe the person who started the thread and created the poll is male.

[The Shrailleeni Empire]

I wholeheartedly agree with the idea behind this, but MRA is not the organization that men need. I have seen a lot of them, and none of them strike me as particularly progressive or helpful. They focus almost entirely on tearing down feminism, which they define as "all feminism regardless of its radicalism." There is no effort to actually help men with male issues, even on subjects where they seem to agree such as "unjust rape accusations" and child custody (the only things that they actually seem to care about changing).

Where do you get off saying there is no effort to change those things? Have you even seen some MRA communities? There is a lot of whining sure, but there is also people trying to change things for the better.

No, there aren't. And yes, I've looked. You and I both know that there is more to the vast majority of these groups than just "whining," which sounds so innocent. But it's a splintered, unorganized movement with a lot of branches. So, in the interest of fairness, even the most progressive of these groups have very little to base themselves off of. None of them seem very interested in examining any of the underlying factors that lead to the very problems that they are dedicated to overcoming. They quickly and simply point to "feminism," again poorly defined, and brace themselves to fight against a perceived oppression that is actually coming from a much different source. Any movement dedicated to destroying something, rather than creating, is inherently doomed.

[Trotskylvania]

More of stalking bullies.

In Facebook I'm battling in a war right now inside feminism between radfems who hate trans* people, especially those of "male-like" presentation and male birth assignment, and we transfeminists.

If you generalize feminist as the earlier, you'll just empower them. They aren't feminism, they're what happens when people who mix traumas, repression, frustration and self-esteem issues into hatred and serious ideologies that can be distorted into essentializing discourses meet.

Just like it's valid for cis men to talk about cis men issues.

So, you agree when I say feminists and MRAs should be stopped and form the Equalists?

Equalism sounds stupid, and it requires us to pretend that women are not the disadvantaged class when it comes to issues of gender.

[The Serbian Empire]

I support some of their points, but others almost make me want to avoid both the MRAs and the Feminists and run down the middle where nobody is.

[Aurora Novus]

The poll is fairly indicative of the sexism men face.

When women freely associate to provide a forum to discuss their issues, it is progress.
When men freely associate to provide a forum to discuss their issues, it's a "hate group"

There are undesirables on both sides, but the great many are average individuals.

There's a reason for that.

I don't browse AVfM, so I couldn't say if it's a hate website or not. However, I fail to see how one website indicates an entire movement is a hate movement. I could just as easily pull up some hateful Feminist website.

Of course, if you're alright with me calling Feminism a hate movement as well, I'm down with that. The MRM and Feminism are hate groups. Neat.

[Murkwood]

The poll is fairly indicative of the sexism men face.

When women freely associate to provide a forum to discuss their issues, it is progress.
When men freely associate to provide a forum to discuss their issues, it's a "hate group"

There are undesirables on both sides, but the great many are average individuals.

I do believe the person who started the thread and created the poll is male.

I am. What does that have to do with anything?

[The Shrailleeni Empire]

It was only a small group of MRAs that started hating women, the rest just tagged along.

It shows that men are united. I wouldn't be surprised if feminist groups started to fight with each other.

Neither group is united, even slightly.

[Nervium]

More of stalking bullies.

In Facebook I'm battling in a war right now inside feminism between radfems who hate trans* people, especially those of "male-like" presentation and male birth assignment, and we transfeminists.

If you generalize feminist as the earlier, you'll just empower them. They aren't feminism, they're what happens when people who mix traumas, repression, frustration and self-esteem issues into hatred and serious ideologies that can be distorted into essentializing discourses meet.

Just like it's valid for cis men to talk about cis men issues.

So, you agree when I say feminists and MRAs should be stopped and form the Equalists?

No.
Uno: The MRA's need to stop whining and disband their little women-hating clubs.
Dos: Make a feminist friendly men's liberation movement.

[Murkwood]

The poll is fairly indicative of the sexism men face.

When women freely associate to provide a forum to discuss their issues, it is progress.
When men freely associate to provide a forum to discuss their issues, it's a "hate group"

There are undesirables on both sides, but the great many are average individuals.

There's a reason for that.

I usually only use MensRights on Reddit, so I wouldn't know if the author of this is correct.

[Sefard]

The poll is fairly indicative of the sexism men face.

When women freely associate to provide a forum to discuss their issues, it is progress.
When men freely associate to provide a forum to discuss their issues, it's a "hate group"

There are undesirables on both sides, but the great many are average individuals.

You are highly ignorant of the situation.

Feminism -> radical feminism -> trans-exclusionary radical feminism + male annihilation/ethnic cleansing movement

Men's movement -> MRAs -> Go-back-in-the-kitchen-baby-factory-ism

NOBODY denied that.

I have not ever seen that line of thinking.

Generally I see feminists concerned about educational and workplace opportunities while also showing concern for how women are treated daily; while at the same time I see Men's Activists generally concerned about paternity issues, unfair family courts, child support, etc.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

So, you agree when I say feminists and MRAs should be stopped and form the Equalists?

Fuck no.

If anything women need to be allies of transgender people.

Cisgender men that are our supporters need just to have tolerant, open-minded attitudes about gender and censor misogyny and transphobia from their own social group.

We have to deal with misandry within our movement ourselves when society is much more advanced. You can't really protagonize a situation you can't understand at depth.

Most instances of institutionalized male mistreatment have to do with the logic of women equals baby factories and child-rearing, or women are weak, plus a bad understanding of human and civil rights.

[Aurora Novus]

So, you agree when I say feminists and MRAs should be stopped and form the Equalists?

Equalism sounds stupid, and it requires us to pretend that women are not the disadvantaged class when it comes to issues of gender.

Well, beyond the fact that that's entirely debatable, yeah. Of course. If you want to end sexism, you've got to end people's distorted value of sex. Part of doing so would be to de-gender problem solving and laws. If people stop looking at each other as men and women, but as people, that would go leaps and bounds towards ending sexism, and it would do so for both sexes.

Why on earth would you not want that?

[Murkwood]

So, you agree when I say feminists and MRAs should be stopped and form the Equalists?

No.
Uno: The MRA's need to stop whining and disband their little women-hating clubs.
Dos: Make a feminist friendly men's liberation movement.

The MRM is friendly to feminists. We just don't like radfems, who seem to be taking over the movement.