Do you consider the Confederate flag to be racist

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Considering the fact that I've been perfectly civil during this discussion, I would appreciate equivalent treatment from you. If you don't have an actual reply, simply say so, or quit the field.

When I get accused of "Bringing something up" in a direct response to what someone else specifically said in their own post to which mine was a response to, and then get referenced about not considering something racist in a conversation chain where my originating post specifically was an address including a valid reasons for it being classed racist; my civility is in recommending someone to get this issue they have with remembering things looked at by competent professionals.

I think that it would take a competent professional to make heads or tails of that sentence.

EDIT: Never mind, I see now. You chose to address my mistaken belief that you were the one who brought up the subject of the song in the first place rather than the actual topic...which isn't the actual topic of the thread, but that's leave that aside for now. My mistake. I'm sure that I fully deserved having my mental health questioned over forgetting that someone else had introduced the topic, and that was in no way an overreaction to a minor error, or an attempt to deflect attention from the fact that you didn't seem to have a response to the actual content of the post.

[Lemanrussland]

Sure it was. It takes racism to believe that one skin tone is superior to another, and it takes a special kind of racism to believe that this gives one a right to own people of the "lesser" tone as property. To actually fight a war and meet one's neighbors, friends, and even relatives on the battlefield in order to maintain one's rights to continue to own people of that skin tone? Well, that's some super-special racism, right there.

Yes, there were racists up north. There were even some pretty strong racists among the abolitionists. But here's the thing: They didn't use their racist beliefs as an excuse to hold their fellow human beings in bondage. Any attempt at equivalence between the sides falls apart there.

The only reason most Northerners who were abolitionists despised slavery was because it fueled the Southern economy, giving them power. Very few actually thought that it was the right thing to do.

It's more complicated than that.

The dispute over the relationship between the federal government and the states began almost from the very beginning. It began to poison national politics from the time John Adams took office, to the issuance of the Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions, to the tariff disputes and nullification crisis of the late 1820s and early 1830s, and through the various disputes over the future of the West.

It was basically a political crisis that fermented and simmered until it finally exploded with the upheaval of the Second Party System and the election of Lincoln. The economic aspect is important (particularly for the South, whose economy, from the start, was based on cheap labor in the form of indentured servants and tobacco in the Chesapeake, and later slaves and cotton), but it doesn't fully explain why the Civil War began.

[Libertarian California]

I do not like the Confederate flag and I am slightly annoyed by it.

However, I do not view it as racist. I view it as the flag of naive Southerners who don't really know the full context of their ancestors' treason.

While the Union was brutal to the South during and after the Civil War, I believe that it was justified as a divided America would have been an even bigger crime.

[Vissegaard]

I seriously doubt that a flag can be a racist, because the neurologists still have no proof of flags being conscious and knowing the very meaning of the word "racist".

[Dyakovo]

I seriously doubt that a flag can be a racist, because the neurologists still have no proof of flags being conscious and knowing the very meaning of the word "racist".

It's bloody obvious that when someone says that the flag is racist, that they mean that it symbolizes racism.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

I seriously doubt that a flag can be a racist, because the neurologists still have no proof of flags being conscious and knowing the very meaning of the word "racist".

It's bloody obvious that when someone says that the flag is racist, that they mean that it symbolizes racism.

Pedants gonna ped.

[The Fascist American Empire]

The only reason most Northerners who were abolitionists despised slavery was because it fueled the Southern economy, giving them power. Very few actually thought that it was the right thing to do.

Source for this statement?

Oh my God. Am I the only person who has ever studied history?

[Dyakovo]

Source for this statement?

Oh my God. Am I the only person who has ever studied history?

No. This would be why Yumyum asked for a source.

[Mavorpen]

Source for this statement?

Oh my God. Am I the only person who has ever studied history?

Your claim doesn't even make any sense. If they opposed slavery because of spite for the South, they would have done nothing. The North was economically superior to the south because it's economy WASN'T fueled by slavery. If they REALLY hated the south they would have let the system cave in on its own so they could brag about how they were right.

[Lancov]

The flag in and of itself is not racist, but it does represent a nation that rebelled against its lawful government in order to defend its 'right' to own human beings as property. So, be careful and mindful of the historical context if you're thinking about flying it.

[Scholmeria]

many black people dont consider to be racist, so its probably not.

[Dyakovo]

many black people dont consider to be racist, so its probably not.

When did they become the sole arbiters of what is or is not racist?

[Mavorpen]

many black people dont consider to be racist, so its probably not.

I'm black, and I consider it racist.

Therefore, it's racist. *nods*

[Socialist Czechia]

No object itself can be racist. Is chicken with melon racist? No. Racist are people what recognize it to be racist same as people, amused by chicken with melon eaten by black guy.

Racism is, if you using special treatments, positive or negative, on some people for their outside looks. Be it white, black, yellow, green or purple dude.

If you beat or insult anyone for color, it's the racism, if you prefer students or employees of some perticular color, it's a racism. Same racism.

No one deserves insults, privileges or special color treatments generally, because we are all one, same, equal people.

We shouldn't care who's butt is black, yellow white or green, at all. That's only way. Because 'fight against racist' is racist, it just prolonging and preserving stereotypes

[Dyakovo]

No object itself can be racist.

I've already addressed this pedantic bullshit once...
When people refer to a thing as being racist, everyone with a lick of common sense realise that what is being said is that the thing symbolizes racism.

[Valica]

Can't believe there are more "no" votes...

Let me put this in a way that even libertardians can understand.

Firstly, states' rights are a joke. Quit using that as the defense for varying laws.
If we left everything up to the states, we wouldn't be a world power.
We definitely wouldn't be a union anymore.

Anyways...

The south wanted the right to keep slaves.
The north wanted to abolish slavery.

When Lincoln was elected, he wanted to stop the spread of slavery into the new states.
The south assumed he would eventually abolish slavery completely.
That's when South Carolina seceded and took others with it.

The year before the war ended, the thirteenth amendment was signed by congress.
It was adopted months after the war officially ended in 1865.

The whole war was a joke and the south was obliterated by the end thanks to superior north war tactics.
Reconstruction was a bitch, though.

Next came the reformation of the union.
The south was forced to accept that slavery was gone and that they had gained nothing from the war.

Whether you want to believe it, the Confederacy and their flag was built atop racism.
Similarly, whether or not a WW2 German soldier hated Jews, the movement he fought for was obviously anti-Semitic.

Stars and Bars was the first flag of the Confederate States of America.
Stars and Bars became the Dixie Flag.
The Confederacy was created around racist ideals.
The Dixie Flag is intrinsically racist.

[Orla]

many black people dont consider to be racist, so its probably not.

Actually, I am sure most think it is racist.

[Gaelic Celtia]

many black people dont consider to be racist, so its probably not.

I didn't know you were the official spokesperson for the African American community, you must be to make such a statement.

[Socialist Czechia]

No object itself can be racist.

I've already addressed this pedantic bullshit once...
When people refer to a thing as being racist, everyone with a lick of common sense realise that what is being said is that the thing symbolizes racism.

You're not right, because no object has only one meaning. Can I consider swastika to be nazi stuff? Yes. But only because of historical associations and some neo-nazi creatures.
In other cultures, swastika or similar sonnenrad has completely different meaning, so I can't say it's 'nazi' itself. It must be used in proper context.

So if someone using Confederate flag in context of southern culture generally, as a matter and part of history, it CAN'T be racist.
It WOULD be racist, if people in white blankets (you know what i mean) would took them during some their 'slaver and anti-black pride parade'.

[Lerodan Chinamerica]

Why is the Confederate Flag racist for representing a slave state that lasted for four years, but the Stars and Stripes not racist for representing a slave state that lasted 189 years?

[Socialist Czechia]

Why is the Confederate Flag racist for representing a slave state that lasted for four years, but the Stars and Stripes not racist for representing a slave state that lasted 189 years?

That.

USA, flag of state founded by rich slavers like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.

[Camelza]

Nah...

[Socialist Czechia]

One helluva ugly slaver flag...

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Why is the Confederate Flag racist for representing a slave state that lasted for four years, but the Stars and Stripes not racist for representing a slave state that lasted 189 years?

Because while slavery existed under the Stars and Stripes, a wish to continue the slave trade was not the basis for our revolution. On the other hand, the fear that slavery would be ended or drastically curtailed under Lincoln was the entire raison d''etre of the Confederacy.

[Camelza]

One helluva ugly slaver flag...

(Image)

Well to be fair, these flags would also count if that was the case: