Former Mayor Bloomberg Fights Against NRA

[Llamalandia]

A Republican does something good for our nation for a change. This is nice.

He actually served terms as an independent originally, his last term he ran as a republican.

Wow, is it possible to be more of a RINO. I wonder why he even bothered with a party affiliation.

[Dyakovo]

The numbers I provided were for 2011 for both cities, as that is the most recent data available for both. Feel free to follow the links to see that the highers rates for Indianapolis vs. NYC hold true for over a decade.

Yeah, that's my bad I was actually confusing the data of NY with that from chicago which I happen to know is lower than Indianapolic over most of the past 10-15 years or so.

I was too lazy to look up Chicago as well, though I wouldn't be terribly surprised if their rates were on par with or lower than Indianapolis'...

They're pretty much on par with Indianapolis, though murder rate is slightly higher.

[Death Metal]

He actually served terms as an independent originally, his last term he ran as a republican.

Wow, is it possible to be more of a RINO. I wonder why he even bothered with a party affiliation.

"RINO" is a fallacious epithet and more anti-thought newspeak. He was just plain conservative.

[Llamalandia]

Yeah, no sometimes the slope really is slippery this would be a prime example.

Nope. You're just fearmongering with no factual evidence. Typical right-wing anti-thought.

Ok, then expalin why cigarette smuggling should be treated differently then gun smuggling. After all they both kill lots of people (and secondhand smoke harms even non-smokers though I believe there some debate on the extent of damage there), why shouldn't a city like NYC for exactly dictate policy on everyone else to prevent smuggling, just as is being suggest they be allowed to do for guns?

[Dyakovo]

Nope. You're just fearmongering with no factual evidence. Typical right-wing anti-thought.

Ok, then expalin why cigarette smuggling should be treated differently then gun smuggling. After all they both kill lots of people (and secondhand smoke harms even non-smokers though I believe there some debate on the extent of damage there), why shouldn't a city like NYC for exactly dictate policy on everyone else to prevent smuggling, just as is being suggest they be allowed to do for guns?

A nation-wide standard of gun regulation is not "big cities dictating policy".

[Llamalandia]

Wow, is it possible to be more of a RINO. I wonder why he even bothered with a party affiliation.

"RINO" is a fallacious epithet and more anti-thought newspeak. He was just plain conservative.

Oh hell no, seriously conservative aren't antigun (nor are they even for common sense regulation in most cases, heck even most moderate republicans are owned by the NRA nowadays too), nor do they pass soda bans, nor smoking bans etc etc. Maybe he was more fiscally conservative but otherwise in no way was he a conservative. Did he even cut taxes in NYC?

[Death Metal]

Nope. You're just fearmongering with no factual evidence. Typical right-wing anti-thought.

Ok, then expalin why cigarette smuggling should be treated differently then gun smuggling. After all they both kill lots of people (and secondhand smoke harms even non-smokers though I believe there some debate on the extent of damage there), why shouldn't a city like NYC for exactly dictate policy on everyone else to prevent smuggling, just as is being suggest they be allowed to do for guns?

Because you're making up an issue that is not even an issue, for one.

[The Serbian Empire]

Yeah, that's my bad I was actually confusing the data of NY with that from chicago which I happen to know is lower than Indianapolic over most of the past 10-15 years or so.

I was too lazy to look up Chicago as well, though I wouldn't be terribly surprised if their rates were on par with or lower than Indianapolis'...

They're pretty much on par with Indianapolis, though murder rate is slightly higher.

Looks like gun control means nothing unless all the surrounding states have very strict rules. Indiana's loose laws just seep over into Chicago.

[Death Metal]

"RINO" is a fallacious epithet and more anti-thought newspeak. He was just plain conservative.

Oh hell no, seriously conservative aren't antigun....

And no true scotsman sugars his porridge.

Your fallacy is still a fallacy.

Also, conservatives push for gun regulatin all the time. They tend to be called Democrats.

[Llamalandia]

Ok, then expalin why cigarette smuggling should be treated differently then gun smuggling. After all they both kill lots of people (and secondhand smoke harms even non-smokers though I believe there some debate on the extent of damage there), why shouldn't a city like NYC for exactly dictate policy on everyone else to prevent smuggling, just as is being suggest they be allowed to do for guns?

A nation-wide standard of gun regulation is not "big cities dictating policy".

That's effectively what their doing (though yes I realize it wouldn't literally be NYC or other big crime ridden cities writing the laws.) But the argument that their problems given them the right to trump other states rights is clearly risible.

[Geilinor]

A nation-wide standard of gun regulation is not "big cities dictating policy".

That's effectively what their doing (though yes I realize it wouldn't literally be NYC or other big crime ridden cities writing the laws.) But the argument that their problems given them the right to trump other states rights is clearly risible.

So all national laws are dictatorship of the big cities? Most Americans actually live in the suburbs.

[Dyakovo]

I was too lazy to look up Chicago as well, though I wouldn't be terribly surprised if their rates were on par with or lower than Indianapolis'...

They're pretty much on par with Indianapolis, though murder rate is slightly higher.

Looks like gun control means nothing unless all the surrounding states have very strict rules. Indiana's loose laws just seep over into Chicago.

This is exactly why a nation standard is necessary for gun control regulations.

[Llamalandia]

Oh hell no, seriously conservative aren't antigun....

And no true scotsman sugars his porridge.

Your fallacy is still a fallacy.

Yeah, if it were one issue I can see how he could still be considered a conservative but seriously you can only diverge so much before it really does become ridiculous. Besides conservatives have increasingly been demanding more and more ideological purity lately(hence the tea party, thus I believe it is Republicans who have themselves as a group raised the bar on what is an acceptable deviation from the norm by their membership..

[Dyakovo]

A nation-wide standard of gun regulation is not "big cities dictating policy".

That's effectively what their doing.

No, it isn't. You're deluding yourself if you think the only people who favor stricter gun control are from big cities.

[The Serbian Empire]

That's effectively what their doing (though yes I realize it wouldn't literally be NYC or other big crime ridden cities writing the laws.) But the argument that their problems given them the right to trump other states rights is clearly risible.

So all national laws are dictatorship of the big cities? Most Americans actually live in the suburbs.

Suburbs are the product of violence within city limits and over-eager land developers.

[Qeno]

This thread is really going nowhere fast. Both sides strongly hold fast to their ,beliefs, and just keep re-posting the same thing, so let's just end the discussion before it goes too far. I am Pro-gun, and that will never change, and the anti-gun folks won't change, so let's just dial it back a bit because the discussion is slowly turning into a flame war.

As someone who enjoys said firearms, I'm all for truly sensible changes in the system. However, said changes need to effect criminals and not further place even more burden on law abiding citizens.

you know what...I agree with you two... I am also Pro-firearms and what Mayor Bloomberg is doing is creating more criminals. Those people have no regard for the law and that is the main difference between law abiding citizens and criminals. Now if we could get the reforms to relate to that fact that would solve the problem!

[The Serbian Empire]

Looks like gun control means nothing unless all the surrounding states have very strict rules. Indiana's loose laws just seep over into Chicago.

This is exactly why a nation standard is necessary for gun control regulations.

Good luck getting that to pass as it requires Congress.

[Death Metal]

And no true scotsman sugars his porridge.

Your fallacy is still a fallacy.

Yeah, if it were one issue I can see how he could still be considered a conservative but seriously you can only diverge so much before it really does become ridiculous.

If anything, gun control is one thing that Republicans are actually liberal on.

Banning sodas and shit are also right-wing stances.

[Dyakovo]

This is exactly why a nation standard is necessary for gun control regulations.

Good luck getting that to pass as it requires Congress.

Having a counter to the reactionary idiocy of the NRA improves the chances of it happening.

[The Serbian Empire]

Good luck getting that to pass as it requires Congress.

Having a counter to the reactionary idiocy of the NRA improves the chances of it happening.

It won't happen until 2022 at earliest given the gerrymandering of Congressional districts.

[Dyakovo]

Having a counter to the reactionary idiocy of the NRA improves the chances of it happening.

It won't happen until 2022 at earliest given the gerrymandering of Congressional districts.

Better late than never.

[Death Metal]

That's effectively what their doing.

No, it isn't. You're deluding yourself if you think the only people who favor stricter gun control are from big cities.

Also, it's funny to note, the state with the highest murder rate per capita is a pro-gun state.

[Dyakovo]

No, it isn't. You're deluding yourself if you think the only people who favor stricter gun control are from big cities.

Also, it's funny to note, the state with the highest murder rate per capita is a pro-gun state.

Funny, but not in the least bit surprising.

[The Serbian Empire]

It won't happen until 2022 at earliest given the gerrymandering of Congressional districts.

Better late than never.

By then, there will probably be more mounting issues involving Social Security and Medicare.

[Llamalandia]

Yeah, if it were one issue I can see how he could still be considered a conservative but seriously you can only diverge so much before it really does become ridiculous.

If anything, gun control is one thing that Republicans are actually liberal on.

Banning sodas and shit are also right-wing stances.

Since when have those been right wing issues? I don't here a lot of conservatives or even republicans for that mattter talking about banning cigarrettes (things which are already legal) or limiting soda size. Sure there some divide on whether more drugs should now be legalized but still I've hardly seen many Republicans cusading against big tobacco the way the Dems do.