Former Mayor Bloomberg Fights Against NRA

[Dyakovo]

Absolute nonsense.

It's true. Compare the murder rate of NYC to Indy, do the same with Chicago. Indianapolis is more like the small-towns in safety, and I have been there and to Chicago several times each. I feel safer in indy than in even the good parts of chi-town.

Is there anything that you actually know anything about?
It's looking like there isn't.
New York City
Murders (per 100,000) 419 (5.1)
Rapes (per 100,000) 1,162 (14.0)
Robberies (per 100,000) 20,201 (243.7)
Assaults (per 100,000) 31,211 (376.5)
Burglaries (per 100,000) 18,635 (224.
Thefts (per 100,000) 115,935 (1,398.6)
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Ne ... z2zISfJwn3
Indianapolis
Murders (per 100,000) 96 (11.5)
Rapes (per 100,000) 435 (52.2)
Robberies (per 100,000) 3,372 (404.
Assaults (per 100,000) 5,267 (632.3)
Burglaries (per 100,000) 15,122 (1,815.3)
Thefts (per 100,000) 27,717 (3,407.3)
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-In ... z2zITZPdsl

Notice how the numbers in brackets are all] higher for Indianapolis than they are for NYC... In case you're not quite smart enough to figure it out, that means that the crime rate in Indianapolis is higher than it is in NYC. Significantly higher, in fact.

[Rabbidskiya Republika]

Stupid people consider it that, since annexation of the US was not a goal of the war for the UK.

---

No, it isn't in any way irrelevant.

Ok then how is it relevant? I don't care about what people in Chicago or NYC do with their laws I don't interfere with them why should they be allowed to interfere with me? I mean, I given you plenty of reasoned analogies here, you've just given me bald faced assertions that seem to amount to little more then you tell me "No, you're wrong."

Exactly. Most of the anti-gun posts have been the same thing worded differently. Many pro-gun posts have real facts and truths that the anti-gun folks can't disprove

[Dyakovo]

Stupid people consider it that, since annexation of the US was not a goal of the war for the UK.

---

No, it isn't in any way irrelevant.

Ok then how is it relevant? I don't care about what people in Chicago or NYC do with their laws I don't interfere with them why should they be allowed to interfere with me? I mean, I given you plenty of reasoned analogies here, you've just given me bald faced assertions that seem to amount to little more then you tell me "No, you're wrong."

It's relevant because, as you've already acknowledged, it is a big factor in why those regulations fail to achieve their goal. Something doesn't become irrelevant just because it goes against your political beliefs.

[Dyakovo]

Ok then how is it relevant? I don't care about what people in Chicago or NYC do with their laws I don't interfere with them why should they be allowed to interfere with me? I mean, I given you plenty of reasoned analogies here, you've just given me bald faced assertions that seem to amount to little more then you tell me "No, you're wrong."

Exactly. Most of the anti-gun posts have been the same thing worded differently. Many pro-gun posts have real facts and truths that the anti-gun folks can't disprove

[The Serbian Empire]

It's true. Compare the murder rate of NYC to Indy, do the same with Chicago. Indianapolis is more like the small-towns in safety, and I have been there and to Chicago several times each. I feel safer in indy than in even the good parts of chi-town.

Is there anything that you actually know anything about?
It's looking like there isn't.
New York City
Murders (per 100,000) 419 (5.1)
Rapes (per 100,000) 1,162 (14.0)
Robberies (per 100,000) 20,201 (243.7)
Assaults (per 100,000) 31,211 (376.5)
Burglaries (per 100,000) 18,635 (224.
Thefts (per 100,000) 115,935 (1,398.6)
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Ne ... z2zISfJwn3
Indianapolis
Murders (per 100,000) 96 (11.5)
Rapes (per 100,000) 435 (52.2)
Robberies (per 100,000) 3,372 (404.
Assaults (per 100,000) 5,267 (632.3)
Burglaries (per 100,000) 15,122 (1,815.3)
Thefts (per 100,000) 27,717 (3,407.3)
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-In ... z2zITZPdsl

Notice how the numbers in brackets are all] higher for Indianapolis than they are for NYC... In case you're not quite smart enough to figure it out, that means that the crime rate in Indianapolis is higher than it is in NYC. Significantly higher, in fact.

Looks like the only crimes guns prevent are property crimes and assaults. This also follows the British model where a person is more likely to be a crime victim, but the murder rate is lower.

[Rabbidskiya Republika]

It's true. Compare the murder rate of NYC to Indy, do the same with Chicago. Indianapolis is more like the small-towns in safety, and I have been there and to Chicago several times each. I feel safer in indy than in even the good parts of chi-town.

Is there anything that you actually know anything about?
It's looking like there isn't.
New York City
Murders (per 100,000) 419 (5.1)
Rapes (per 100,000) 1,162 (14.0)
Robberies (per 100,000) 20,201 (243.7)
Assaults (per 100,000) 31,211 (376.5)
Burglaries (per 100,000) 18,635 (224.
Thefts (per 100,000) 115,935 (1,398.6)
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Ne ... z2zISfJwn3
Indianapolis
Murders (per 100,000) 96 (11.5)
Rapes (per 100,000) 435 (52.2)
Robberies (per 100,000) 3,372 (404.
Assaults (per 100,000) 5,267 (632.3)
Burglaries (per 100,000) 15,122 (1,815.3)
Thefts (per 100,000) 27,717 (3,407.3)
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-In ... z2zITZPdsl

Notice how the numbers in brackets are all] higher for Indianapolis than they are for NYC... In case you're not quite smart enough to figure it out, that means that the crime rate in Indianapolis is higher than it is in NYC. Significantly higher, in fact.

The numbers not in the brackets are the actual rates, so that means you are wrong.

[Dyakovo]

Is there anything that you actually know anything about?
It's looking like there isn't.
New York City
Murders (per 100,000) 419 (5.1)
Rapes (per 100,000) 1,162 (14.0)
Robberies (per 100,000) 20,201 (243.7)
Assaults (per 100,000) 31,211 (376.5)
Burglaries (per 100,000) 18,635 (224.
Thefts (per 100,000) 115,935 (1,398.6)
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Ne ... z2zISfJwn3
Indianapolis
Murders (per 100,000) 96 (11.5)
Rapes (per 100,000) 435 (52.2)
Robberies (per 100,000) 3,372 (404.
Assaults (per 100,000) 5,267 (632.3)
Burglaries (per 100,000) 15,122 (1,815.3)
Thefts (per 100,000) 27,717 (3,407.3)
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-In ... z2zITZPdsl

Notice how the numbers in brackets are all] higher for Indianapolis than they are for NYC... In case you're not quite smart enough to figure it out, that means that the crime rate in Indianapolis is higher than it is in NYC. Significantly higher, in fact.

Looks like the only crimes guns prevent are property crimes of the burglary and theft categories.

How do you get that out of the statistics I posted?

[Vazdania]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/15/us/bloomberg-gun-safety-initiative/index.html

Former Mayor of New York City Michael Bloomberg is announcing a new umbrella organization to counter the NRA's successful lobbying campaign to limit background check laws and assault weapon bans. The former Mayor is dropping 50 million dollars, his own money to kickstart the group. In practice this new group "Everytown for Gun Safety" will prove a foil to the NRA although Mr. Bloomberg stressed in an interview that he was not looking to ban guns, just increase background checks and promote gun safety.

I disagree with the Mayor on a lot of issues, like the parent role he took on while Mayor limiting calories and the size of your soda. I support gun rights but also background checks obviously I do not want people with mental problems to have access to guns. I think the NRA goes overboard sometimes, in my opinion so this new organization may be promising in moving the debate on firearm issues further. Although he did go overboard himself, saying that this endeavour would "get him into heaven", I am not sure were that came from but I hope it does not distract the issue.

So NSG do you support him or oppose him? Will this move the debate on gun politics in America forward?

Boooo!!!!!

I oppose him.

[Senkaku]

A Republican does something good for our nation for a change. This is nice.

[Death Metal]

The numbers not in the brackets are the actual rates, so that means you are wrong.

No, those are the raw numbers, brackets are per capita.

Meaning if Indianapolis had a higher population, equal to New York, it would have more murders than New York.

Learn 2 Statistics.

[Llamalandia]

Ok then how is it relevant? I don't care about what people in Chicago or NYC do with their laws I don't interfere with them why should they be allowed to interfere with me? I mean, I given you plenty of reasoned analogies here, you've just given me bald faced assertions that seem to amount to little more then you tell me "No, you're wrong."

It's relevant because, as you've already acknowledged, it is a big factor in why those regulations fail to achieve their goal. Something doesn't become irrelevant just because it goes against your political beliefs.

It's not just my political beliefs it happens to the position of most reasonable people that each city/state gets to regulate things the way the want. I mean, if we allow a few large cities to dictate policy on to the rest of us on the issue guns what's to stop them from doing the same thing with other things like taxes, marijuana laws (though I admit federal laws already exist here but are likely move in the direction of non-enforcement in states with legal pot), driver's license test, voter id laws etc etc. It's a slippery slope I mean, next Bloomberg will start a campaign highlighting how people can smuggle 32 oz sodas into NYC from New Jersey. (and yes, I realize that the ban was struck down).

[Dyakovo]

Is there anything that you actually know anything about?
It's looking like there isn't.
New York City
Murders (per 100,000) 419 (5.1)
Rapes (per 100,000) 1,162 (14.0)
Robberies (per 100,000) 20,201 (243.7)
Assaults (per 100,000) 31,211 (376.5)
Burglaries (per 100,000) 18,635 (224.
Thefts (per 100,000) 115,935 (1,398.6)
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Ne ... z2zISfJwn3
Indianapolis
Murders (per 100,000) 96 (11.5)
Rapes (per 100,000) 435 (52.2)
Robberies (per 100,000) 3,372 (404.
Assaults (per 100,000) 5,267 (632.3)
Burglaries (per 100,000) 15,122 (1,815.3)
Thefts (per 100,000) 27,717 (3,407.3)
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-In ... z2zITZPdsl

Notice how the numbers in brackets are all] higher for Indianapolis than they are for NYC... In case you're not quite smart enough to figure it out, that means that the crime rate in Indianapolis is higher than it is in NYC. Significantly higher, in fact.

The numbers not in the brackets are the actual rates, so that means you are wrong.

Wow. You seriously aren't even smart enough to read the information right in front of your eyes?
The numbers in the brackets are the rates, the number before the brackets is the total number of occurrences. In case you weren't aware, New York City (pop. 8,405,837) has a higher population than Indianapolis (pop. 820,445).

[Qeno]

I blame an inanimate tool because it in of itself is dangerous. Sure without a person it can't do harm, but that's not how the world works. Give a man a knife and he might hurt someone, give a man a gun and that knife injury can get upgraded to "dead."

1. So would you blame a pencil if you get a question wrong on a test? Because that is how I view this firearm debate and I fear that some day we may end up trying to ban pencils for their ability to become a weapon.

[Dyakovo]

It's relevant because, as you've already acknowledged, it is a big factor in why those regulations fail to achieve their goal. Something doesn't become irrelevant just because it goes against your political beliefs.

It's not just my political beliefs it happens to the position of most reasonable people that each city/state gets to regulate things the way the want. I mean, if we allow a few large cities to dictate policy on to the rest of us on the issue guns what's to stop them from doing the same thing with other things like taxes, marijuana laws (though I admit federal laws already exist here but are likely move in the direction of non-enforcement in states with legal pot), driver's license test, voter id laws etc etc. It's a slippery slope I mean, next Bloomberg will start a campaign highlighting how people can smuggle 32 oz sodas into NYC from New Jersey. (and yes, I realize that the ban was struck down).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope_fallacy

[Llamalandia]

The numbers not in the brackets are the actual rates, so that means you are wrong.

No, those are the raw numbers, brackets are per capita.

Meaning if Indianapolis had a higher population, equal to New York, it would have more murders than New York.

Learn 2 Statistics.

True but that's only for what like 2013 I think if you take a more longitudinal view say over the last ten years, you'll find that Chicago does in fact have higher murder rates.

[Paddy O Fernature]

I blame an inanimate tool because it in of itself is dangerous. Sure without a person it can't do harm, but that's not how the world works. Give a man a knife and he might hurt someone, give a man a gun and that knife injury can get upgraded to "dead."

1. So would you blame a pencil if you get a question wrong on a test? Because that is how I view this firearm debate and I fear that some day we may end up trying to ban pencils for their ability to become a weapon.

Psst... might want to fix the quote, as you are quoting the wrong person.

[Llamalandia]

It's not just my political beliefs it happens to the position of most reasonable people that each city/state gets to regulate things the way the want. I mean, if we allow a few large cities to dictate policy on to the rest of us on the issue guns what's to stop them from doing the same thing with other things like taxes, marijuana laws (though I admit federal laws already exist here but are likely move in the direction of non-enforcement in states with legal pot), driver's license test, voter id laws etc etc. It's a slippery slope I mean, next Bloomberg will start a campaign highlighting how people can smuggle 32 oz sodas into NYC from New Jersey. (and yes, I realize that the ban was struck down).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope_fallacy

Yeah, no sometimes the slope really is slippery this would be a prime example.

[The Serbian Empire]

Looks like the only crimes guns prevent are property crimes of the burglary and theft categories.

How do you get that out of the statistics I posted?

Oops... I misjudged the data. I also suspect NYC's crime is artificially low as the property values price out the poor to Newark.

[Rabbidskiya Republika]

This thread is really going nowhere fast. Both sides strongly hold fast to their ,beliefs, and just keep re-posting the same thing, so let's just end the discussion before it goes too far. I am Pro-gun, and that will never change, and the anti-gun folks won't change, so let's just dial it back a bit because the discussion is slowly turning into a flame war.

[Dyakovo]

No, those are the raw numbers, brackets are per capita.

Meaning if Indianapolis had a higher population, equal to New York, it would have more murders than New York.

Learn 2 Statistics.

True but that's only for what like 2013 I think if you take a more longitudinal view say over the last ten years, you'll find that Chicago does in fact have higher murder rates.

The numbers I provided were for 2011 for both cities, as that is the most recent data available for both. Feel free to follow the links to see that the highers rates for Indianapolis vs. NYC hold true for over a decade.

[Paddy O Fernature]

This thread is really going nowhere fast. Both sides strongly hold fast to their ,beliefs, and just keep re-posting the same thing, so let's just end the discussion before it goes too far. I am Pro-gun, and that will never change, and the anti-gun folks won't change, so let's just dial it back a bit because the discussion is slowly turning into a flame war.

As someone who enjoys said firearms, I'm all for truly sensible changes in the system. However, said changes need to effect criminals and not further place even more burden on law abiding citizens.

[Death Metal]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope_fallacy

Yeah, no sometimes the slope really is slippery this would be a prime example.

Nope. You're just fearmongering with no factual evidence. Typical right-wing anti-thought.

[Dyakovo]

This thread is really going nowhere fast. Both sides strongly hold fast to their ,beliefs, and just keep re-posting the same thing, so let's just end the discussion before it goes too far. I am Pro-gun, and that will never change, and the anti-gun folks won't change, so let's just dial it back a bit because the discussion is slowly turning into a flame war.

You know, the sad part about this, is that one of the people that you are arguing against is, in fact pro-gun. I am also, pro-regulation, and anti-stupidity.

[Rabbidskiya Republika]

A Republican does something good for our nation for a change. This is nice.

He actually served terms as an independent originally, his last term he ran as a republican.

[Llamalandia]

True but that's only for what like 2013 I think if you take a more longitudinal view say over the last ten years, you'll find that Chicago does in fact have higher murder rates.

The numbers I provided were for 2011 for both cities, as that is the most recent data available for both. Feel free to follow the links to see that the highers rates for Indianapolis vs. NYC hold true for over a decade.

Yeah, that's my bad I was actually confusing the data of NY with that from chicago which I happen to know is lower than Indianapolic over most of the past 10-15 years or so.