I have the right to use government land (now with slavery!)

[Llamalandia]

Isn't that land usage fee effectively a flow of revenue into the government?

So? I don't think you understand what either the BLM or the IRS does.

Well in fairness after the Chief J Roberts' SCOTUS ruling on Obamacare how is anyone supposed to be able to no the difference between a fee and a tax?

[Geilinor]

actually if you keep reading, he was tazed for attacking a police dog. He is lucky he was not shot.
they are two different events that happened on two different days.

august 6th arrested for failing to disperse
august 9th tazed for assaulting a police officer (canine)

Yeah, that's my bad on the dog kicking/tasering thing. He shouldna dun that. But still I maintain the arrest for failure to disperse is pure and unmitigated bullshit. I mean, there's plenty of State route it's not like his presence was an actual impediment to anyone doing their job. If some individgual protesters are somehow crossing the line in to criminal activity (like threatening to kill LEO's or something then fine arrest) but don't disperse a largely peaceful (if somewhat raucous) protest. I mean, if they were actually rioting and like turning over cop cars sure that's no longer a protest but a riot, but as far as I've seen Bundy et al weren't doing enough to warrant their forced "dispersal".

The presence of Bundy and his followers was an impediment to those who were attempting to get the cattle off of federal land.

[Geilinor]

So? I don't think you understand what either the BLM or the IRS does.

Well in fairness after the Chief J Roberts' SCOTUS ruling on Obamacare how is anyone supposed to be able to no the difference between a fee and a tax?

The land usage fee is a fee for services received, the ACA penalty is a fine. Fee =/= fine.

[The Horror Channel]

I wonder if this Bundy fuckwit has ever received any gov't subsidies.

[Llamalandia]

Well there's plenty of other sources and besides this I don't think the BLM did much to try and actually enforce the zones as I'm guessing most people made it pretty clear that in America you can generally protest and assembly peacably on most public property (certain supreme court rulings on the constitutionality of the zones notwithstanding). Also in fairness to the BLM they did take them down after the first two days if I'm not mistaken but still what kinda of moron puts up free speech zones in the first place?

The kind that is worried about the protests becoming less than peaceful? If they did do it, it was certainly a bad PR move on their part, though I have a hard time blaming them (though still disagreeing with it being done) considering the threats levied against them by Bundy and his criminal buddies.

Also it does go beyond just bad PR. I mean if stuff had gone down there it's conceivable this might have turned out like a WACO style incident (which I personally think Bundy at least half wants to be honest) with federal agents killing women and children in the process. I don't think anyone really wants to see the BLM enforce the laws that badly (and obviously BLM did in fact wisely backdown). I mean, it's the United States not a war zone, thus killing human shields even inadvertently isn't really acceptable to most Americans in my opinion.

[Llamalandia]

Well in fairness after the Chief J Roberts' SCOTUS ruling on Obamacare how is anyone supposed to be able to no the difference between a fee and a tax?

The land usage fee is a fee for services received, the ACA penalty is a fine. Fee =/= fine.

True i suppose but Bundy is also being find for the trespassing cattle as well, guess I should have been more specific.

[Llamalandia]

Yeah, that's my bad on the dog kicking/tasering thing. He shouldna dun that. But still I maintain the arrest for failure to disperse is pure and unmitigated bullshit. I mean, there's plenty of State route it's not like his presence was an actual impediment to anyone doing their job. If some individgual protesters are somehow crossing the line in to criminal activity (like threatening to kill LEO's or something then fine arrest) but don't disperse a largely peaceful (if somewhat raucous) protest. I mean, if they were actually rioting and like turning over cop cars sure that's no longer a protest but a riot, but as far as I've seen Bundy et al weren't doing enough to warrant their forced "dispersal".

The presence of Bundy and his followers was an impediment to those who were attempting to get the cattle off of federal land.

How so, I'm specifically talking about the younger Bundy on the August 6th incident. How was he impeding their work other than merely being physically present (ad not blocking any vehicles or personel as far as I've seen.

[Felucian Planetary Republic]

I followed the link to the news report on this incident and I thought of something....Why is the government trying to waste their time on this instead of things that people actually consider problems? I mean if the guy has cattle on the "government" owned land, why did they not do anything earlier? I think the US government is going down some messed up road where they can charge anyone a fee for stupid things...before you know it, we will be charged for even walking into a store or something like that.

[Dyakovo]

I followed the link to the news report on this incident and I thought of something....Why is the government trying to waste their time on this instead of things that people actually consider problems? I mean if the guy has cattle on the "government" owned land, why did they not do anything earlier? I think the US government is going down some messed up road where they can charge anyone a fee for stupid things...before you know it, we will be charged for even walking into a store or something like that.

So, you don't think criminal trespass and theft aren't problems?

[Felucian Planetary Republic]

I followed the link to the news report on this incident and I thought of something....Why is the government trying to waste their time on this instead of things that people actually consider problems? I mean if the guy has cattle on the "government" owned land, why did they not do anything earlier? I think the US government is going down some messed up road where they can charge anyone a fee for stupid things...before you know it, we will be charged for even walking into a store or something like that.

So, you don't think criminal trespass and theft aren't problems?

I missed the theft part.....so then that is a problem.

[Dyakovo]

So, you don't think criminal trespass and theft aren't problems?

I missed the theft part.....so then that is a problem.

That is entirely what this is about.

[AiliailiA]

I followed the link to the news report on this incident and I thought of something....Why is the government trying to waste their time on this instead of things that people actually consider problems? I mean if the guy has cattle on the "government" owned land, why did they not do anything earlier? I think the US government is going down some messed up road where they can charge anyone a fee for stupid things...before you know it, we will be charged for even walking into a store or something like that.

You seem to think grazing fees are a new thing. They go back the Taylor Grazing Act of 1934.

[New Chalcedon]

So? I don't think you understand what either the BLM or the IRS does.

Well in fairness after the Chief J Roberts' SCOTUS ruling on Obamacare how is anyone supposed to be able to no the difference between a fee and a tax?

Given that that ruling had nothing to do with fees, your "joke" is as uninformed as it is unentertaining.

[United Prefectures of Appia]

I followed the link to the news report on this incident and I thought of something....Why is the government trying to waste their time on this instead of things that people actually consider problems? I mean if the guy has cattle on the "government" owned land, why did they not do anything earlier? I think the US government is going down some messed up road where they can charge anyone a fee for stupid things...before you know it, we will be charged for even walking into a store or something like that.

I believe they have. They even went to court and Bundy lost everytime. However, he's just too damn stubborn, so as a last resort, the government tried to come in and confiscate his cattle only to have a bunch of right-wing whackos messing things up.

[Tekania]

I followed the link to the news report on this incident and I thought of something....Why is the government trying to waste their time on this instead of things that people actually consider problems? I mean if the guy has cattle on the "government" owned land, why did they not do anything earlier? I think the US government is going down some messed up road where they can charge anyone a fee for stupid things...before you know it, we will be charged for even walking into a store or something like that.

Do you not bother reading the available information? The government has been doing things regarding this since even before his last permit expired. This is not a case of the Gov't suddenly popping its head up 21 years later going, "OH! He's grazing without a permit!"..... no, over those 20 years there have been notices, court judgements, planned roundups, and backdowns due to threats.

[SaintB]

I wonder if this Bundy fuckwit has ever received any gov't subsidies.

Very likely he has, there are tons of subsidies for cattle farmers.

[SaintB]

The thing that most urks me about the whole situation is how many people on the wrong wing are cheering this guy on and pretending like it is some kind of victory for individual rights and a stand against government intrusion but it's neither, it's not even close. What it really is is the worst kind of mooching off of John Q Public, something that right-wingers vehemently oppose when it's done by people who need to but suddenly when this asshole who could afford to pay his fines and renew his permits and peacefully follow the law along with everyone else refuses to do it to the tune of 100 times more than any 3 welfare recipients you can think of it's suddenly fucking justifiable. And what about the individual rights of everyone else to use that land? With his cows tromping, munching, and shitting all over the place it infringes upon your and my rights to use that land for hiking or to have a picnic or whatever else we might like to do on that land so he was expected (quite reasonably) to pay a small fee far below what would be considered fair market value for the use of it.

He's mooching off of the federal government far worse than anyone receiving SNAP or Unemployment benefits are and he is quite literally piling shit on everyone else's individual rights. He is the worst kind of selfish cockbag, the kind of person who doesn't deserve anyone's respect let alone to be held up as some kind of paragon of liberty.

[United Prefectures of Appia]

BTW, anyone still hung up on the solar panel industry conspiracy theory? If so, I hate to be the bearer of bad news but it's been debunked.

[Roski]

Warning. The images in the sources provided below may be disturbing
SOURCES: http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/nevada/blm-2-bulls-euthanized-during-cliven-bundy-cattle-roundup

Posted to the official Bundy Ranch Facebook page, the gruesome image shows several dead cattle being removed from a makeshift grave discovered just this weekend.
“Digging up 1 of the HUGE holes where they threw the cows that they had ran to death or shot,” the picture’s description reads. “I feel that this NEEDS to be put out for the public to see.”
The picture backs up reports by several people including Nevada assemblywoman Michele Fiore, who commented on the BLM’s cattle graves last Tuesday.
“Near their compound, right off the highway, they were digging holes,” Fiore said. “They tried to bury some cows on the compound, but I guess they didn’t dig the hole deep enough, so they throw a cow in and they put dirt over him and you have cows’ legs sticking up out of the dirt.”
Fiore also displayed several photos on her Twitter account Sunday, labeling the incident the “BLM Massacre.”


As expected, American "Patriotic" Militia are uprising (again), and appear to be threatening a revolution of sorts.

The family claims that the "massacre" is unlawful, and federal agents have admitted to shooting the cattle.

Of course, the feds said one thing, and did another!

I personally think this is just a bunch of bull. The Federal Government really doesn't need to tax for grazing, and the family claims the land is still theirs. Moreover, the rapid militarization of Nevada, supported by the Governor, and attacked by the Senator, was more than uncalled for.
This again seems that these "Patriots" are more hell bent on destabilizing the country, instead of doing things through politics.
In my opinion, both sides are wrong.

What say you, nationstates?

[Lucipurr]

What the fuck did the cattle do to the Federal Agents? I honestly hope they're charged for this.

[Regnum Dominae]

Warning. The images in the sources provided below may be disturbing
SOURCES: [url]http://www.infowars

Stopped reading here.

[Roski]

Warning. The images in the sources provided below may be disturbing
SOURCES: [url]http://www.infowars

Stopped reading here.

Multiple sources were provided. If you disapproved of that one, there were two others.

[Lucipurr]

Warning. The images in the sources provided below may be disturbing
SOURCES: [url]http://www.infowars

Stopped reading here.

Did you not bother to check the other sources? It seems everyone always seems to stop reading when Infowars is mentioned, but don't seem to bother to check out other sources.

[Regnum Dominae]

Stopped reading here.

Multiple sources were provided. If you disapproved of that one, there were two others.

PatDollard.com had this on their home page:

Nope, not going to take that seriously.

And the last source's photos appear to be of the same cow from several different angles. One cow is not a "mass grave".

[Roski]

Multiple sources were provided. If you disapproved of that one, there were two others.

PatDollard.com had this on their home page:

Nope, not going to take that seriously.

And the last source's photos appear to be of the same cow from several different angles. One cow is not a "mass grave".

There are more.