LGBT Rights & Issues Thread

[Floating mountain]

the hatred of our bodies is caused by the inability to look at our bodies and see yourselfs as the gender we really are

I'm having difficulty seeing the difference between 'gender you really are' and simply preferring to appear as one sex over the other. Would this be kind of equivocal to (just as an example!) a terribly deformed person's desire to have a 'normal' body?

For example while i have a penis i'm not comfortable with it and would rather have developed breast and have a vagina.

I don't find it to be a great example because I dont think I would care either way lol. If I were a woman instead, it would definitely be easier to get guys (hehe). I also find women to be more beautiful in general, but I am not attracted to women, nor have I ever wanted to become one.

Which kinda brings up another question. Does the changing of one's own body into the desired sex (mainly) relieve stress about how others view them or how they view themselves?

The answer to both of these questions are very similar. Transitioning is a very personal decision and the main reason, for it in most cases, is to ensure that the person has a body that they can feel comfortable in and not have it so that whenever they look at themself they are disgusted.

[Liriena]

Keep in mind that, thus far, there's no final, all-encompassing answer yet to what causes people to identify as a gender or sex different from the one they were assigned at birth. I don't think that "social insecurities" have much to do with it.

By social insecurities, I'm mainly referring to standards of beauty, not necessarily sexually though.

In that case... no. At most, social-cultural standards of beauty affect one's gender expression (as in, for instance, what combinations of gender-specific and gender-nonspecific clothes you wear), but not one's gender identity.

Would you mind clarifying what you mean by "sexual", lest I give you an answer that doesn't address your actual concern?

I guess it's mainly sexual attractiveness.

Then no.

Gender roles in one's specific society and culture may play a part, particularly in the case of non-transsexual transgender people, but it's hard to tell to what degree. I do not believe, however, that gender roles are the main culprit.

Ahh. To me it just seems like the transgendered people I know dress specifically like the sex they wish to be, and not 'however they want.' I thought this kind of implied the need to be whatever they conceive the other sex to be. Maybe you can kind of see what I mean?

I see what you mean.

Gender roles and social-cultural standards of beauty do play a part in how transgender people visually express their gender, but their gender identity, in principle, goes beyond gender-specific fashion.

A word of advice: The word "transgender" is in itself an adjective, so you don't have to add an "-ed" at the end of it.

Not necessarily misunderstanding. Some people show signs of transgender identity and/or gender dysphoria from an early age, and some in particular might have been born with biological factors that led to them being transgender, but such is not necessarily the case for all transgender people.

At an early age it's probably a lot more confusing when adults are making distinctions for you and separating you into categories. I don't doubt that transgender signs can occur at a young age, I just have a difficult time understanding how someone can be born with a 'female-minded' or 'male-minded' brain.

It's not too difficult when you realize that there exist differences between male and female brains, and there's evidence that suggests that some transgender people are born with brains of a sex that doesn't match that of the rest of their bodies.

A word of advice: If this friend of yours identifies as a (transgender) woman, you should try to refer to her as she.

Other than that, I have nothing useful to say.

That just feels like an awkward conversation to have haha, but I'll try. It also doesn't help that his entire family believes they've cured him of his 'ills' through a lot of therapy, so I wouldn't want to do it infront of anyone.

Understandable.

And thanks. Not a lot of people agree to try to avoid misgendering transgender people. Though I can't speak for your friend, I'm sure it means a lot to transgender people in general when those who are close to them make the effort to avoid misgendering them and treat them according to their gender identity.

Which kinda brings up another question. Does the changing of one's own body into the desired sex (mainly) relieve stress about how others view them or how they view themselves?

That's the idea, although it doesn't work in a minority of cases.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

I don't find it to be a great example because I dont think I would care either way lol. If I were a woman instead, it would definitely be easier to get guys (hehe). I also find women to be more beautiful in general, but I am not attracted to women, nor have I ever wanted to become one.

Trans people can be of any sexual orientation, and many prefer the company of average gay and bi cis guys over their hetero trans-chasing counterparts. Being chased as "exotic" or "a fetish" obviously feels objectifying.

As for me, when I felt like being significantly androgynous, it had to do with gender dysphoria in itself. Sexual attractiveness-wise, I think a muscular, sharp featured person with a typical testicular corporeality (i.e. the average body of people whose main sexually recognizable characteristic is the presence of testes) is best.

When I think of myself sexually, I think of being with other guys. It's thus not gender-neutral in itself (even though it probably first rose from my own gender neutrality), at least as far as I understand myself. Maybe that explains why my bisexuality is weird: I can't realistically think of myself with other girls, not at all in a symmetrical manner, so it's just erased. For other non-binary people, though, it's closer to the sentiment I have for the male spectrum. (My attraction to non-binary people - since 2010, skoliosexuality/skolioromanticity if you will - grew as I understood myself.)

Nowadays I believe it's cissexist to say one's body must be aligned as WXYZ or whatever in order for one to have their gender legitimized - what body makes me "neutrois enough"? That is absolutely bullshit. Most of my dysphoria faded away with self-acceptance and realism, so you're correct that it has to do with how you want others to perceive you (which is why misgendering is so aggressive), but this is not the case for the vast majority. Still, a much inner, more subtle kind still creeps within me, I just don't think it'd be understood as psychologically legitimate in order for me to fit a diagnosis - I'd need serious, induced distress in order to feel bad.

That's not an isolated thing, though. Many binary trans people (trans men and trans women, as opposed to those of non-binary and non-Western genders) dislike the term dysphoria, because it's pathologizing, and compare the experience to a sort of self-hatred through internalization.

Since I'm a late bloomer and only finished figuring out my gender at 19 and a half, I had enough time to deconstruct that shit. Most people, who generally are aware of their gender difference since much younger, don't.

I'd lie if I pretended what I believe to be my final stone in that deconstruction isn't my longing for a relationship with a girl, one such relationship that isn't hetero [at least not in the conventional sense] because I'm allowed to fully think of myself as non-male, though.

[All Natural France]

I'll just sit here and wait for someone to explain what "nutrios" or whatever it's called(Without malicious intent in this message), because I don't get the whole gender spectrum.

[Dragoria]

I'll just sit here and wait for someone to explain what "nutrios" or whatever it's called(Without malicious intent in this message), because I don't get the whole gender spectrum.

Neutral. Neither male nor female, identity-wise, but also a little bit of both. Just right smack in the middle.

[Luminesa]

This is the mod-sanctioned LGBT (etc.) thread designed for discussion of:

A) The struggle of non-heterosexual people to achieve equality in society; or the struggle to establish or re-establish heterosexuality as the legally-sanctioned norm for society

B) specific instances of these struggles (court cases and decisions);

C) progress and set-backs in these processes (US states legitimizing same-sex marriage or banning it).

The Moderation team have been concerned at the extent to which recent threads on this subject have tended to turn into one great big troll/flamebait fest faster than you say “Jack Robinson.” It's our hope that by starting a mod-sanctioned thread we can slow this tendency down (even if we can't entirely stop it), and encourage a more civil debate between different perspectives.

We will treat this thread with similar stringent conditions to those we use for US Presidential election threads:

In addition to the usual rules regarding no flaming, no baiting, and no trolling, we we also rigidly enforce no mocking nicknames, and no gloating.

There are three other rulings specific to this thread:

1) Referring to non-heterosexual persons as mentally ill or equating not being heterosexual as akin to being a pedophile will - in most cases - bring us down on you like a ton of bricks.

2) Deliberately misgendering people who have declared their preferred personal pronoun will make the ton of bricks look like a ton of feathers.

3) Discussions of religious prohibitions on non-heterosexual behavior will be tolerated to the extent that they do not evolve into general discussions of religions or a particular religion. Everything said above about how trolling and flaming non-heterosexuals applies equally to trolling and flaming religious people.

CLAIMS SHOULD BE SOURCED. But specifically note the following.... Wikipedia is an acceptable source; as are major media outlets, regardless of their perceived bias or lack thereof. Noting that a major media outlet has a particular orientation is valid; squabbling over whether a particular source is valid or not simply on the basis of its political orientation is strongly discouraged. Disagreeing with Wiki or a major media outlet is absolutely fine, but counterclaims should also be sourced.

If we find that people are exploiting loopholes in the above rulings, or coming up with new ways of insulting each other that are specific to this topic, we reserve the right to edit this OP to address these accordingly.

We encourage you to be polite to each other. We appreciate that this is a topic over which people have strong feelings - but this is no excuse to be rude. And yes, this is mod-sanctioned despite the lack of a Mod owning the OP.

Here is the OP from the Colorado baker thread:
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/06/21795833-judge-orders-colorado-baker-to-serve-gay-couples
appears that if you own a private business you cant decide who you do business with or not anymore
in this story a judge ordered a Colorado baker to make a cake for a gay couple who married in Massachusetts and wanted a wedding cake to celebrate in Colorado. The Judge said if the baker refused then he would have to pay a fine.

OP thought: I don't like it when some same sex couples use their sexual orientation to force people into doing things their way and if they didn't fold they would face a lawsuit for discrimination. and I read the story their is also discrimination on part of the judge & the gay couple they are forcing someone to do something that goes against their religious beliefs.

So NS any words?

Previous incarnation

I've read that story, too. It's pretty scary. The problem is that there are plenty of other cases like that. It's frightening that you could possibly lose your job for standing up for your religious beliefs. We're talking small businesses, too, which don't have a lot of money on the side.

Are homosexuals and heterosexuals equal? Of course! They're both human beings, with all the things that come with them being human beings. They should both be treated as human beings, too. However, once same-sex couples start imposing over people like this Colorado baker, like they did, then things get unbalanced. That's bullying. And when people bully other people, then people start getting hurt.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

I'll just sit here and wait for someone to explain what "nutrios" or whatever it's called(Without malicious intent in this message), because I don't get the whole gender spectrum.

Multiple spectrum: more than one single gender (see: Dumb Ideologies, bigender)

Ambiguous spectrum: ambiguity between two different senses of gender identity (see: Grenartia, androgyne)

Genderless spectrum: absence of a sense of gender identity, feeling remote to the notion (see: Lies and Ignorance, agender)

Neutral spectrum: sentiment of neutrality as a gender identity in itself, much like femininity or masculinity would be (see: me, neutrois)

Other spectrum: gender identity that is something else than femininity and masculinity in itself, something properly "out of the binary" (see: several non-Western genders)

Masculine spectrum: you identify as male, boy or guy in at least some distant sort of way; not to be confused with being butch (women and non-binary identities can include butchness, that can be an identity in itself)

Feminine spectrum: you identify as female, girl or lady in at least some distant sort of way; not to be confused with being femme (men and non-binary identities can include effeminacy, that can be an identity in itself)

Fluid spectrum: well, you can guess it. You vary between one place or the other, different amounts of each identity, different proportions, whatever whatever whatever

You can also have a mix of many different spectra without being fluid, or being minimally so.

There are genders that don't quite fit but to most purposes these categories are the most important to understand non-binary people.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

I'll just sit here and wait for someone to explain what "nutrios" or whatever it's called(Without malicious intent in this message), because I don't get the whole gender spectrum.

Neutral. Neither male nor female, identity-wise, but also a little bit of both. Just right smack in the middle.

A little bit of both would be more like demineutrois androgyne or bigender of neutrois and androgyne. xD

I have a total incompatibility with the male gender role of my society, but I never felt I was anything like a girl, either. :x

[Lost heros]

This is the mod-sanctioned LGBT (etc.) thread designed for discussion of:

A) The struggle of non-heterosexual people to achieve equality in society; or the struggle to establish or re-establish heterosexuality as the legally-sanctioned norm for society

B) specific instances of these struggles (court cases and decisions);

C) progress and set-backs in these processes (US states legitimizing same-sex marriage or banning it).

The Moderation team have been concerned at the extent to which recent threads on this subject have tended to turn into one great big troll/flamebait fest faster than you say “Jack Robinson.” It's our hope that by starting a mod-sanctioned thread we can slow this tendency down (even if we can't entirely stop it), and encourage a more civil debate between different perspectives.

We will treat this thread with similar stringent conditions to those we use for US Presidential election threads:

In addition to the usual rules regarding no flaming, no baiting, and no trolling, we we also rigidly enforce no mocking nicknames, and no gloating.

There are three other rulings specific to this thread:

1) Referring to non-heterosexual persons as mentally ill or equating not being heterosexual as akin to being a pedophile will - in most cases - bring us down on you like a ton of bricks.

2) Deliberately misgendering people who have declared their preferred personal pronoun will make the ton of bricks look like a ton of feathers.

3) Discussions of religious prohibitions on non-heterosexual behavior will be tolerated to the extent that they do not evolve into general discussions of religions or a particular religion. Everything said above about how trolling and flaming non-heterosexuals applies equally to trolling and flaming religious people.

CLAIMS SHOULD BE SOURCED. But specifically note the following.... Wikipedia is an acceptable source; as are major media outlets, regardless of their perceived bias or lack thereof. Noting that a major media outlet has a particular orientation is valid; squabbling over whether a particular source is valid or not simply on the basis of its political orientation is strongly discouraged. Disagreeing with Wiki or a major media outlet is absolutely fine, but counterclaims should also be sourced.

If we find that people are exploiting loopholes in the above rulings, or coming up with new ways of insulting each other that are specific to this topic, we reserve the right to edit this OP to address these accordingly.

We encourage you to be polite to each other. We appreciate that this is a topic over which people have strong feelings - but this is no excuse to be rude. And yes, this is mod-sanctioned despite the lack of a Mod owning the OP.

Here is the OP from the Colorado baker thread:
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/06/21795833-judge-orders-colorado-baker-to-serve-gay-couples
appears that if you own a private business you cant decide who you do business with or not anymore
in this story a judge ordered a Colorado baker to make a cake for a gay couple who married in Massachusetts and wanted a wedding cake to celebrate in Colorado. The Judge said if the baker refused then he would have to pay a fine.

OP thought: I don't like it when some same sex couples use their sexual orientation to force people into doing things their way and if they didn't fold they would face a lawsuit for discrimination. and I read the story their is also discrimination on part of the judge & the gay couple they are forcing someone to do something that goes against their religious beliefs.

So NS any words?

Previous incarnation

I've read that story, too. It's pretty scary. The problem is that there are plenty of other cases like that. It's frightening that you could possibly lose your job for standing up for your religious beliefs. We're talking small businesses, too, which don't have a lot of money on the side.

Are homosexuals and heterosexuals equal? Of course! They're both human beings, with all the things that come with them being human beings. They should both be treated as human beings, too. However, once same-sex couples start imposing over people like this Colorado baker, like they did, then things get unbalanced. That's bullying. And when people bully other people, then people start getting hurt.

You're just the mother load of unpopular opinions aren't ya?

The baker in this case was acting as a public establishment, which means he was supposed to serve the entire public free of discrimination based on race, religion, or sexuality, but clearly he acted against what he had previously agreed to do. By denying them service, he discriminated against homosexuals and falsely advertised as a business.

[Dragoria]

Neutral. Neither male nor female, identity-wise, but also a little bit of both. Just right smack in the middle.

A little bit of both would be more like demineutrois androgyne or bigender of neutrois and androgyne. xD

I have a total incompatibility with the male gender role of my society, but I never felt I was anything like a girl, either. :x

S'why I put "little". Neutral rather than Agender. "meh" more than "absolutely none of the above", from what I understand.

[All Natural France]

I'll just sit here and wait for someone to explain what "nutrios" or whatever it's called(Without malicious intent in this message), because I don't get the whole gender spectrum.

Multiple spectrum: more than one single gender (see: Dumb Ideologies, bigender)

Ambiguous spectrum: ambiguity between two different senses of gender identity (see: Grenartia, androgyne)

Genderless spectrum: absence of a sense of gender identity, feeling remote to the notion (see: Lies and Ignorance, agender)

Neutral spectrum: sentiment of neutrality as a gender identity in itself, much like femininity or masculinity would be (see: me, neutrois)

Other spectrum: gender identity that is something else than femininity and masculinity in itself, something properly "out of the binary" (see: several non-Western genders)

Masculine spectrum: you identify as male, boy or guy in at least some distant sort of way; not to be confused with being butch (women and non-binary identities can include butchness, that can be an identity in itself)

Feminine spectrum: you identify as female, girl or lady in at least some distant sort of way; not to be confused with being femme (men and non-binary identities can include effeminacy, that can be an identity in itself)

Fluid spectrum: well, you can guess it. You vary between one place or the other, different amounts of each identity, different proportions, whatever whatever whatever

You can also have a mix of many different spectra without being fluid, or being minimally so.

There are genders that don't quite fit but to most purposes these categories are the most important to understand non-binary people.

I get most except this:

(see: several non-Western genders)

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

A little bit of both would be more like demineutrois androgyne or bigender of neutrois and androgyne. xD

I have a total incompatibility with the male gender role of my society, but I never felt I was anything like a girl, either. :x

S'why I put "little". Neutral rather than Agender. "meh" more than "absolutely none of the above", from what I understand.

You got them swapped, by the definitions you gave.

Meh is more like genderlessness and absolutely none more like gender neutrality to me.

I get most except this:

(see: several non-Western genders)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender

There are better articles out there.

[Dumb Ideologies]

MY EGO SEARCH PICKED UP THIS THREAD BECAUSE I HAD BEEN RECENTLY MENTIONED.

HELLO.

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

MY EGO SEARCH PICKED UP THIS THREAD BECAUSE I HAD BEEN RECENTLY MENTIONED.

HELLO.

Hi, dear.

[Dumb Ideologies]

MY EGO SEARCH PICKED UP THIS THREAD BECAUSE I HAD BEEN RECENTLY MENTIONED.

HELLO.

Hi, dear.

¦3

Greetings. Sorry, my caps lock got stuck on there at my enthusiasm at being mentioned. It makes me feel important.

[Lost heros]

MY EGO SEARCH PICKED UP THIS THREAD BECAUSE I HAD BEEN RECENTLY MENTIONED.

HELLO.

No fair, my ego search never yields anything. :c

[Immoren]

MY EGO SEARCH PICKED UP THIS THREAD BECAUSE I HAD BEEN RECENTLY MENTIONED.

HELLO.

Someone should pop that...
...ego.

[All Natural France]

S'why I put "little". Neutral rather than Agender. "meh" more than "absolutely none of the above", from what I understand.

You got them swapped, by the definitions you gave.

Meh is more like genderlessness and absolutely none more like gender neutrality to me.

I get most except this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender

There are better articles out there.

I kinda get it, but I think it be best I not say a word on it.

[Dragoria]

S'why I put "little". Neutral rather than Agender. "meh" more than "absolutely none of the above", from what I understand.

You got them swapped, by the definitions you gave.

Meh is more like genderlessness and absolutely none more like gender neutrality to me.

I get most except this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender

There are better articles out there.

~shrug~ It's a lot to keep track of, chicks and dudes and everything in between and all our lovely outliers...
But "none" is less like no gender than it is neutral to you? Because none, to me, would be closer to not being one, while neutral would be the just not giving a damn one way or the other...

[Benuty]

MY EGO SEARCH PICKED UP THIS THREAD BECAUSE I HAD BEEN RECENTLY MENTIONED.

HELLO.

Someone should pop that...
...ego.

What about the id, and superego?

Then again Freud was a quack so they along with ego (in the proto-Freudian sense) probably don't exist.

[Grenartia]

This is the mod-sanctioned LGBT (etc.) thread designed for discussion of:

A) The struggle of non-heterosexual people to achieve equality in society; or the struggle to establish or re-establish heterosexuality as the legally-sanctioned norm for society

B) specific instances of these struggles (court cases and decisions);

C) progress and set-backs in these processes (US states legitimizing same-sex marriage or banning it).

The Moderation team have been concerned at the extent to which recent threads on this subject have tended to turn into one great big troll/flamebait fest faster than you say “Jack Robinson.” It's our hope that by starting a mod-sanctioned thread we can slow this tendency down (even if we can't entirely stop it), and encourage a more civil debate between different perspectives.

We will treat this thread with similar stringent conditions to those we use for US Presidential election threads:

In addition to the usual rules regarding no flaming, no baiting, and no trolling, we we also rigidly enforce no mocking nicknames, and no gloating.

There are three other rulings specific to this thread:

1) Referring to non-heterosexual persons as mentally ill or equating not being heterosexual as akin to being a pedophile will - in most cases - bring us down on you like a ton of bricks.

2) Deliberately misgendering people who have declared their preferred personal pronoun will make the ton of bricks look like a ton of feathers.

3) Discussions of religious prohibitions on non-heterosexual behavior will be tolerated to the extent that they do not evolve into general discussions of religions or a particular religion. Everything said above about how trolling and flaming non-heterosexuals applies equally to trolling and flaming religious people.

CLAIMS SHOULD BE SOURCED. But specifically note the following.... Wikipedia is an acceptable source; as are major media outlets, regardless of their perceived bias or lack thereof. Noting that a major media outlet has a particular orientation is valid; squabbling over whether a particular source is valid or not simply on the basis of its political orientation is strongly discouraged. Disagreeing with Wiki or a major media outlet is absolutely fine, but counterclaims should also be sourced.

If we find that people are exploiting loopholes in the above rulings, or coming up with new ways of insulting each other that are specific to this topic, we reserve the right to edit this OP to address these accordingly.

We encourage you to be polite to each other. We appreciate that this is a topic over which people have strong feelings - but this is no excuse to be rude. And yes, this is mod-sanctioned despite the lack of a Mod owning the OP.

Here is the OP from the Colorado baker thread:
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/06/21795833-judge-orders-colorado-baker-to-serve-gay-couples
appears that if you own a private business you cant decide who you do business with or not anymore
in this story a judge ordered a Colorado baker to make a cake for a gay couple who married in Massachusetts and wanted a wedding cake to celebrate in Colorado. The Judge said if the baker refused then he would have to pay a fine.

OP thought: I don't like it when some same sex couples use their sexual orientation to force people into doing things their way and if they didn't fold they would face a lawsuit for discrimination. and I read the story their is also discrimination on part of the judge & the gay couple they are forcing someone to do something that goes against their religious beliefs.

So NS any words?

Previous incarnation

I've read that story, too. It's pretty scary. The problem is that there are plenty of other cases like that. It's frightening that you could possibly lose your job for standing up for your religious beliefs. We're talking small businesses, too, which don't have a lot of money on the side.

Are homosexuals and heterosexuals equal? Of course! They're both human beings, with all the things that come with them being human beings. They should both be treated as human beings, too. However, once same-sex couples start imposing over people like this Colorado baker, like they did, then things get unbalanced. That's bullying. And when people bully other people, then people start getting hurt.

Nope. Anti-discrimination cuts both ways, and therefore, isn't bullying. Also, allowing discrimination is allowing bullying.

[Grenartia]

I'll just sit here and wait for someone to explain what "nutrios" or whatever it's called(Without malicious intent in this message), because I don't get the whole gender spectrum.

Multiple spectrum: more than one single gender (see: Dumb Ideologies, bigender)

Ambiguous spectrum: ambiguity between two different senses of gender identity (see: Grenartia, androgyne)

Genderless spectrum: absence of a sense of gender identity, feeling remote to the notion (see: Lies and Ignorance, agender)

Neutral spectrum: sentiment of neutrality as a gender identity in itself, much like femininity or masculinity would be (see: me, neutrois)

Other spectrum: gender identity that is something else than femininity and masculinity in itself, something properly "out of the binary" (see: several non-Western genders)

Masculine spectrum: you identify as male, boy or guy in at least some distant sort of way; not to be confused with being butch (women and non-binary identities can include butchness, that can be an identity in itself)

Feminine spectrum: you identify as female, girl or lady in at least some distant sort of way; not to be confused with being femme (men and non-binary identities can include effeminacy, that can be an identity in itself)

Fluid spectrum: well, you can guess it. You vary between one place or the other, different amounts of each identity, different proportions, whatever whatever whatever

You can also have a mix of many different spectra without being fluid, or being minimally so.

There are genders that don't quite fit but to most purposes these categories are the most important to understand non-binary people.

Uh, no, that doesn't actually describe me at all.

[Benuty]

I'll just sit here and wait for someone to explain what "nutrios" or whatever it's called(Without malicious intent in this message), because I don't get the whole gender spectrum.

Multiple spectrum: more than one single gender (see: Dumb Ideologies, bigender)

Ambiguous spectrum: ambiguity between two different senses of gender identity (see: Grenartia, androgyne)

Genderless spectrum: absence of a sense of gender identity, feeling remote to the notion (see: Lies and Ignorance, agender)

Neutral spectrum: sentiment of neutrality as a gender identity in itself, much like femininity or masculinity would be (see: me, neutrois)

Other spectrum: gender identity that is something else than femininity and masculinity in itself, something properly "out of the binary" (see: several non-Western genders)

Masculine spectrum: you identify as male, boy or guy in at least some distant sort of way; not to be confused with being butch (women and non-binary identities can include butchness, that can be an identity in itself)

Feminine spectrum: you identify as female, girl or lady in at least some distant sort of way; not to be confused with being femme (men and non-binary identities can include effeminacy, that can be an identity in itself)

Fluid spectrum: well, you can guess it. You vary between one place or the other, different amounts of each identity, different proportions, whatever whatever whatever

You can also have a mix of many different spectra without being fluid, or being minimally so.

There are genders that don't quite fit but to most purposes these categories are the most important to understand non-binary people.

What no Omni?

[Grenartia]

You got them swapped, by the definitions you gave.

Meh is more like genderlessness and absolutely none more like gender neutrality to me.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender

There are better articles out there.

~shrug~ It's a lot to keep track of, chicks and dudes and everything in between and all our lovely outliers...
But "none" is less like no gender than it is neutral to you? Because none, to me, would be closer to not being one, while neutral would be the just not giving a damn one way or the other...

We seriously need a more academic, less whimsical classification system.

[Liberonscien]

Deleted.